Cost of living squeeze in 2022

[hotchy]

chemistry said:

markbigears said:

How do the greatest economic minds in the UK come up with ideas such as taxing the oil companies? Is it just appeasing the twitters of the country? And what happens next time? Raid your children piggy bank? Very dangerous strategy

Exactly. It's stupid, plus by putting more money into the economy it is fuelling inflation.

I realise many folks are really struggling right now, but the reality is that this is the hangover after furlough, lockdown, Ukraine and the rest. Its awful and unpleasant, but there's no avoiding it.

In my view we shouldn't be inventing new windfall taxes; companies will be wary next time so will be incentivised to move elsewhere, raise prices, avoid investment, etc .

Instead, limited support should be given to people on the lowest incomes and the rest of us just need to find ways to manage - fewer luxuries, make-do and mend attitude, cutting back on discretionary spend like hobbies etc. It will suck, but there's no avoiding it.

So us who work do with less while those on the lowest income get everything as usual? No thanks. Why should I spend 12 hours a day working, to go without when others sit at home and don't have to go without?

[skeggysteve]

brickwall said:

Snip.

- HS2: Already spent 14bn out of 44bn for phase 1. The remaining 30bn will be spent over the next 8 years, so 3.5bn per year…about 0.3% of the government’s budget.

I agree it not a big chunk of the government's budget.

But do you really believe that the remaining 30bn will be 30bn in 8 years time?

Call me cynical but I think it will be many times that!

[A500leroy]

hotchy said:

So us who work do with less while those on the lowest income get everything as usual? No thanks. Why should I spend 12 hours a day working, to go without when others sit at home and don't have to go without?

[paulw123]

Throttlebody said:

Thanks Rishi, I really, really don’t need the 400.

Not sure what to blow it on, something unique to celebrate another Govt universal nanny state money print.

A holiday I think, somewhere hot. Seems appropriate

[crankedup5]

hotchy said:

chemistry said:

markbigears said:

How do the greatest economic minds in the UK come up with ideas such as taxing the oil companies? Is it just appeasing the twitters of the country? And what happens next time? Raid your children piggy bank? Very dangerous strategy

Exactly. It's stupid, plus by putting more money into the economy it is fuelling inflation.

I realise many folks are really struggling right now, but the reality is that this is the hangover after furlough, lockdown, Ukraine and the rest. Its awful and unpleasant, but there's no avoiding it.

In my view we shouldn't be inventing new windfall taxes; companies will be wary next time so will be incentivised to move elsewhere, raise prices, avoid investment, etc .

Instead, limited support should be given to people on the lowest incomes and the rest of us just need to find ways to manage - fewer luxuries, make-do and mend attitude, cutting back on discretionary spend like hobbies etc. It will suck, but there's no avoiding it.

So us who work do with less while those on the lowest income get everything as usual? No thanks. Why should I spend 12 hours a day working, to go without when others sit at home and don't have to go without?

Yup, that sums it up really, but what are you going to do about it? Like most likely suck it up and grumble. I think this Government has pushed working people’s taxation to far now and the spread of that cash is aimed too much at the ‘l.es well off’. Letters of disgust to Conservative M.P. is about all the actions available atm.

[Boringvolvodriver]

hotchy said:

chemistry said:

markbigears said:

How do the greatest economic minds in the UK come up with ideas such as taxing the oil companies? Is it just appeasing the twitters of the country? And what happens next time? Raid your children piggy bank? Very dangerous strategy

Exactly. It's stupid, plus by putting more money into the economy it is fuelling inflation.

I realise many folks are really struggling right now, but the reality is that this is the hangover after furlough, lockdown, Ukraine and the rest. Its awful and unpleasant, but there's no avoiding it.

In my view we shouldn't be inventing new windfall taxes; companies will be wary next time so will be incentivised to move elsewhere, raise prices, avoid investment, etc .

Instead, limited support should be given to people on the lowest incomes and the rest of us just need to find ways to manage - fewer luxuries, make-do and mend attitude, cutting back on discretionary spend like hobbies etc. It will suck, but there's no avoiding it.

So us who work do with less while those on the lowest income get everything as usual? No thanks. Why should I spend 12 hours a day working, to go without when others sit at home and don't have to go without?

Whilst not denying that clearly some people are going to be badly affected, there will be many that do not need the £400 given to them - the same as there will be many retired people who also do not need the money (I think of some friends of ours where they have just bought a very nice new X3M).

Looks like the Tories have found the magic money tree that they were so critical of. Vote Tory get Labour policies

[brickwall]

skeggysteve said:

brickwall said:

Snip.

- HS2: Already spent 14bn out of 44bn for phase 1. The remaining 30bn will be spent over the next 8 years, so 3.5bn per year…about 0.3% of the government’s budget.

I agree it not a big chunk of the government's budget.

But do you really believe that the remaining 30bn will be 30bn in 8 years time?

Call me cynical but I think it will be many times that!

I share your cynical view of government capital projects!

I think the point still stands though - even if the budget doubled from this point on it’d still barely move the needle on government spending.

There are many good reasons to not do HS2 (though I think we’re we’re way too deep in now).
That it’ll help lower taxes is not one of those good reasons.

[Gecko1978]

brickwall said:

Mark Benson said:

brickwall said:

Mark Benson said:

brickwall said:

This list just shows how clueless the public are when it comes to actually changing spending. I’m sure Mark Benson thinks himself more well-informed than average, but even he hasn’t got any ideas that’ll actually touch the sides.

Let’s look at this list in order shall we
- HS2: Already spent 14bn out of 44bn for phase 1. The remaining 30bn will be spent over the next 8 years, so 3.5bn per year…about 0.3% of the government’s budget.
- Foreign aid: Cut the lot, saves 12bn. Whoop-di-do, you’ve cut government spending by a grand 1%.
- Crossrail: Already built, too late. No money to be saved.
- Travel subsidies: 1-2bn saved. Pat yourself on the back for the incredible change you’ve made to government finances.
- Civil service: Total cost of civil service is ~ 13bn. Half of civil service employment are operational delivery (prison officers, job centre employees, HMRC call centre workers etc.). Total cost of “Whitehall” salaries is c. 1.5bn. Even taking very aggressive cuts you could perhaps save 5bn…0.5% of government spending.
- In-work benefits (raising the burden on employers to compensate): This works almost identically to a tax (because either way employers pay).
- Consolidate local councils: Total council spending is 106bn; 75% of this goes straight out the door in just 3 areas: education, social care, and ‘blue light’ (police and fire). If you cut council “central services” completely, you’d save 4bn.

So all Mark’s wonderful ideas add up to a grand total of (generously) 25bn, which is <2.5% of government spending. Our budget deficit for this year is > 100bn!

I'm sure you consider yourself incredibly clever with your snide comments but you failed to understand the context in which I was responding.

You were offering ideas to cut spending so that there is room to cut tax.
I am merely pointing out that your ideas cut spending only minimally, and therefore create room only for minimal tax cuts.

No, I was responding to a post which read:

Gecko1978 said:

I agree tax is too high however....Universal Credit, NHS, Civil Service, local council, police, fire, military, MPs, Foreign aid, travel subsidises, cross rail, HS2....all has to be paid for an if we cur tax then something has to give...pick one

I made no claims about effectiveness whatsoever.
Maybe spend some time understanding what you're responding to before trying to insult people to prove how clever you are.

Great, so person A says “if you want to cut tax then you’ve got to cut something. Pick one”

You pick lots of things. (But none of them will make a difference).

Lots of ideas, ok with none of them making a difference.

Well done, you’ll go far!

Well Mark got quite angry but let me help. NHS. 170bn a year. Close it, private health for everyone people will of course die, but insurance could then come for 11% you pay in NI. I am just about to have back surgery 1 week ago had Dr appointment next day MRI an week Monday surgery so end to end about 4 weeks v waiting on the NHS for 3 months. Down side it will have cost 3.5k at the end and I don't have health insurance so paid myself.....maybe if we did not have an NHS people would find other ways to provide.

[A500leroy]

Gecko1978 said:

Well Mark got quite angry but let me help. NHS. 170bn a year. Close it, private health for everyone people will of course die, but insurance could then come for 11% you pay in NI. I am just about to have back surgery 1 week ago had Dr appointment next day MRI an week Monday surgery so end to end about 4 weeks v waiting on the NHS for 3 months. Down side it will have cost 3.5k at the end and I don't have health insurance so paid myself.....maybe if we did not have an NHS people would find other ways to provide.

Weve got people in the country that really cant afford a tin of baked beans and you want them to die when they get sick? cold man ,cold.

[Welshbeef]

rampageturke said:

30% of all households need government intervention to be able to fuel their home after 12 years of tory rule

Any tory voters want to elaborate?

I don’t think Labour approved any nuclear power stations whilst in govt?
This Tory govt has.

Previous Tory and Labour didn’t either.

Every party voted for green policies and decarbonising our energy production. This has happened. Now there is an issue.

[Timothy Bucktu]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Looks like the Tories have found the magic money tree that they were so critical of. Vote Tory get Labour policies

We have never had a more Socialist government, ever.
I doubt we'll ever recoup the loses of the last few years.

[Sway]

A500leroy said:

Gecko1978 said:

Well Mark got quite angry but let me help. NHS. 170bn a year. Close it, private health for everyone people will of course die, but insurance could then come for 11% you pay in NI. I am just about to have back surgery 1 week ago had Dr appointment next day MRI an week Monday surgery so end to end about 4 weeks v waiting on the NHS for 3 months. Down side it will have cost 3.5k at the end and I don't have health insurance so paid myself.....maybe if we did not have an NHS people would find other ways to provide.

Weve got people in the country that really cant afford a tin of baked beans and you want them to die when they get sick? cold man ,cold.

There's simply no need for that.

There are options between the NHS, and the US model. Most are more efficient in terms of spend (multiples of beds, nurses, etc. for relatively small differences in spend).

They also focus far more on outcomes than political measures.

Such as the delightful day off work I had on Friday. Exactly two weeks after being referred, I took my other half to the 'breast clinic' where we were assured they would do all necessary diagnostics to give her a diagnosis that day.

Except, some 45 minutes late, she goes in to be told that there isn't an ultrasound operator, and therefore no diagnostics would occur at all. Why the fk they were running so late when the core reason for that day's appointments weren't happening, I don't know.

She's just had her replacement appointment - funnily enough, exactly ten working days after she's 'been seen', once again ensuring the box is just about ticked.

Same day, we went to a consultant's appointment for a different matter, at the local Nuffield (thanks to my work scheme, which gives zero fks about pre-existing conditions) - examination, MRI, nerve conduction test all done within two hours, operation booked for a week later.

[basherX]

Ed Conway did a good thread on Twitter costing today’s announcement out. Total cost seems to far exceed the amount expected from the windfall tax. So the difference is borrowing.

Seems like an obviously inflationary fiscal move. Makes interest rate rises more likely. Is Sunak just pouring petrol onto the fire?

[2xChevrons]

Timothy Bucktu said:

We have never had a more Socialist government, ever.
I doubt we'll ever recoup the loses of the last few years.

I can't imagine why all us lefties were so disappointed in the 2019 GE result, then. A government more socialist than Wilson, or even Attlee! Wow!

"Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership."

Care to enlighten me on how this current government is a) socialist and b) the most socialist government in British history.

"Spending £billions" =/= "Socialism"

[xeny]

Gecko1978 said:

Well Mark got quite angry but let me help. NHS. 170bn a year. Close it, private health for everyone people will of course die, but insurance could then come for 11% you pay in NI.

Isn't US health insurance rather more expensive than the NHS, and certainly more expensive than 11% of a typical salary? Seems like a great way of making anyone who wants healthcare cover poorer overall.

[anonymous-user]

2xChevrons said:

Timothy Bucktu said:

We have never had a more Socialist government, ever.
I doubt we'll ever recoup the loses of the last few years.

I can't imagine why all us lefties were so disappointed in the 2019 GE result, then. A government more socialist than Wilson, or even Attlee! Wow!

"Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership."

Care to enlighten me on how this current government is a) socialist and b) the most socialist government in British history.

"Spending billions" =/= "Socialism"

I can imagine if/when the Tories get kicked out of Government, Rishi or his replacement will be writing a similar note to the one left by the last Labour Chancellor i.e. there is nothing left.

Seems pretty similar to me.

[MikeT66]

A500leroy said:

Well im grateful for it Rishi. Thats winter sorted for me and i might be able to have the heating on this year (low)

Same here. I disagree with the whole idea (I'd have preferred reducing tax on energyfuel and dropping/pushing back the zero carbon guff), but in the predicament we're in it's better than nothing. We have to pay by smart card, though, so not sure how/if it will work for me anyway.

[Timothy Bucktu]

2xChevrons said:

Timothy Bucktu said:

We have never had a more Socialist government, ever.
I doubt we'll ever recoup the loses of the last few years.

I can't imagine why all us lefties were so disappointed in the 2019 GE result, then. A government more socialist than Wilson, or even Attlee! Wow!

"Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership."

Care to enlighten me on how this current government is a) socialist and b) the most socialist government in British history.

"Spending billions" =/= "Socialism"

Equal distribution of wealth.

[Chris Type R]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

In theory consumption/demand could be reduced by introducing higher unit rates for greater consumption - linked perhaps to council banding which should be indicative of property size. It would be a minefield to implement though and almost certainly result in some unforeseen consequences.

[gregs656]

MikeT66 said:

A500leroy said:

Well im grateful for it Rishi. Thats winter sorted for me and i might be able to have the heating on this year (low)

Same here. I disagree with the whole idea (I'd have preferred reducing tax on energyfuel and dropping/pushing back the zero carbon guff), but in the predicament we're in it's better than nothing. We have to pay by smart card, though, so not sure how/if it will work for me anyway.

IMO it is just another example of a short term, populist policy with long term consequences that outweigh the benefits.