Cost of living squeeze in 2022
Discussion
valiant said:
Welshbeef said:
Energy increases there are some simple solutions
Use less energy
Turn the heating down
Don’t leave lights on in rooms your not in
Cook batches of food - less cooking = less energy
Wear more clothes - jumpers work very well
What do you say to people who are already doing these things and will now face increases of what? 50% over the next few months?Use less energy
Turn the heating down
Don’t leave lights on in rooms your not in
Cook batches of food - less cooking = less energy
Wear more clothes - jumpers work very well
Many PHers seem to live in some sort of bubble that doesn’t acknowledge that many people are struggling now and the belt is as tight as it can be. Stuff like the above is fine if there’s a bit of fat on your monthly budget but if the pips are already being as squeezed as can be, what happens when b
d Electric Co tell you your direct debit is going up yet again?Years ago I remember some pensioners would take a book and go to a Weatherspoons sit in there most of the day in the lovely warmth & have a few dirt cheap half pints and wholesome food & the social interaction too.
Meat costs a lot so a family who are in a situation you describe could simply cut down on meat consumption - jacket potatoes beans, or a big veg stew costs peanuts and will feed so many ditto chic peas and tarka Dhals. Lovely meals which are so cheap to buy and prepare.
Welshbeef said:
Heating isn’t used between April and late Oct - very generally speaking. Also so far this winter it’s been extremely mild so unless people have elected to have heating up for the sake of it they should be expecting a lower usage so far.
Years ago I remember some pensioners would take a book and go to a Weatherspoons sit in there most of the day in the lovely warmth & have a few dirt cheap half pints and wholesome food & the social interaction too.
Meat costs a lot so a family who are in a situation you describe could simply cut down on meat consumption - jacket potatoes beans, or a big veg stew costs peanuts and will feed so many ditto chic peas and tarka Dhals. Lovely meals which are so cheap to buy and prepare.
You only need to put the heating on when it's cold shocker Years ago I remember some pensioners would take a book and go to a Weatherspoons sit in there most of the day in the lovely warmth & have a few dirt cheap half pints and wholesome food & the social interaction too.
Meat costs a lot so a family who are in a situation you describe could simply cut down on meat consumption - jacket potatoes beans, or a big veg stew costs peanuts and will feed so many ditto chic peas and tarka Dhals. Lovely meals which are so cheap to buy and prepare.
Next, poor people don't need to eat all the time . . . .
Joey Deacon said:
All this money printing over the last two years has allowed the rich to get richer. This money has been put into property, watches, cars and the stock market, all of which are at all time highs.
The poor and those in low paid jobs are now suffering due to prices of everything going up due to the sheer amount of money sloshing around. Add to this the fact that property values have massively increased over the last few years and the gap between the have and have nots is growing bigger day by day.
It is almost like this whole thing has been manufactured to make the elite stupidly wealthy and the poor more beholden to their slave masters.
Slavery was apparently abolished, but the majority of people seem to be willingly walking into financial slavery without even realising they are being fked by the people with the money.
Bit OTT The poor and those in low paid jobs are now suffering due to prices of everything going up due to the sheer amount of money sloshing around. Add to this the fact that property values have massively increased over the last few years and the gap between the have and have nots is growing bigger day by day.
It is almost like this whole thing has been manufactured to make the elite stupidly wealthy and the poor more beholden to their slave masters.
Slavery was apparently abolished, but the majority of people seem to be willingly walking into financial slavery without even realising they are being f
ked by the people with the money.Edited by Joey Deacon on Wednesday 29th December 09:54
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Gecko1978 said:
Are you saying they already have turned the heating off you mean in all other cases you can use less. But for some I agree it will be eat or heat but that i suspect is same today. Issue we might face is a lot in the middle might be eat heat / mortgage that would be a political problem for the Tory's. Tax rises would actually make it worse an that red wall would srping back up
I'm saying that telling someone who's already got to choose between heating and eating to "put another jumper on" is perhaps slightly missing the point.Donbot said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm saying that telling someone who's already got to choose between heating and eating to "put another jumper on" is perhaps slightly missing the point.
People believe what they read in the Daily mail about people on low incomes and dole scroungers rolling in cash, while people on double the average income can barely afford to put food on the table. It makes it easy for the people on the bottom to be dismissed. You see it on here a lot, and it's a depressing insight into how some people view the world.
Welshbeef said:
Meat costs a lot so a family who are in a situation you describe could simply cut down on meat consumption - jacket potatoes beans, or a big veg stew costs peanuts and will feed so many ditto chic peas and tarka Dhals. Lovely meals which are so cheap to buy and prepare.
That is true enough. The main cost effective meat is chicken and that forms the vast majority of our meat consumption with pork, and, even more expensive, lamb a less frequent treat.BigMon said:
Donbot said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm saying that telling someone who's already got to choose between heating and eating to "put another jumper on" is perhaps slightly missing the point.
People believe what they read in the Daily mail about people on low incomes and dole scroungers rolling in cash, while people on double the average income can barely afford to put food on the table. It makes it easy for the people on the bottom to be dismissed. You see it on here a lot, and it's a depressing insight into how some people view the world.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: The people the most likely to be hit by this are the ones most likely not to have benefitted from schemes such as furlough and who weren't able to work from home.
Cleaners, care workers, bus drivers, retail workers, take your pick of occupations that are generally minimum wage and who didn't have the choice to say "think I'll work remotely today and take the 80%".
There's a whole bunch of people who've had a pretty comfortable pandemic so far, financially speaking, and I'd include myself in that, but the people at the bottom always seem to suffer disproportionately.
Mustn’t overlook the fraudsters here, several billions lined their pockets.Cleaners, care workers, bus drivers, retail workers, take your pick of occupations that are generally minimum wage and who didn't have the choice to say "think I'll work remotely today and take the 80%".
There's a whole bunch of people who've had a pretty comfortable pandemic so far, financially speaking, and I'd include myself in that, but the people at the bottom always seem to suffer disproportionately.
Donbot said:
You only need to put the heating on when it's cold shocker
Next, poor people don't need to eat all the time . . . .
Well we’ve hardly had the hearing on at all this winter season so our usage is so small relative to last year. We haven’t done this due to the price rises (we’ve got fixed in for a number of years) rather don’t need to use it and a nod to sustainability. Next, poor people don't need to eat all the time . . . .
Our parents and great grandparents grew up with no central heating and had ice on the inside of single glazed rattly windows. Cold? They dressed accordingly hot water bottles
Next everyone needs to cut down on meat eating for hitting net zero and for personal welbeing vegan (full time of 5 days a week) is a hugely growing movement and it’s not poor and deprived. It does dramatically reduce cost of weekly shops.
Lastly - people who really need it should not have any concerns with using food banks. This is why we and so many others give food in super markets which go to food banks.
Gecko1978 said:
What % of people are we talking about about an those in that situation will i assume be in recipt of maximum benefits already so no council tax, rent paid, access to food banks even Its a grim existence of course but not a common one. What will happen is those who get buy today might not be able to tomorrow but because they have work might not get benefits as I say eat or mortgage is not a great choice but as we saw in 2008 when people cant pay the bills then everyone suffers
I don't know the percentage but the impression I get is that it isn't a small number.I live in a small little town that's considered as generally well-off.
Didn't even think about things like food banks until a few years ago let alone think we'd have one here.
Turns out we do and they've given out 95,000 meals in the last year.
Whatever the percentage those people are dependent on charity to eat.
You read some of the replies on here and everything's fine they're either fraudsters or they just need a few more layers and a giant bag of lentils.
Welshbeef said:
Donbot said:
You only need to put the heating on when it's cold shocker
Next, poor people don't need to eat all the time . . . .
Well we’ve hardly had the hearing on at all this winter season so our usage is so small relative to last year. We haven’t done this due to the price rises (we’ve got fixed in for a number of years) rather don’t need to use it and a nod to sustainability. Next, poor people don't need to eat all the time . . . .
Our parents and great grandparents grew up with no central heating and had ice on the inside of single glazed rattly windows. Cold? They dressed accordingly hot water bottles
Next everyone needs to cut down on meat eating for hitting net zero and for personal welbeing vegan (full time of 5 days a week) is a hugely growing movement and it’s not poor and deprived. It does dramatically reduce cost of weekly shops.
Lastly - people who really need it should not have any concerns with using food banks. This is why we and so many others give food in super markets which go to food banks.
Oh wait . . . .
Plus, you post is very 'I'm alright jack'.
valiant said:
tannhauser said:
NerveAgent said:
Earthdweller said:
I come from a part of the country with high rates of social deprivation and an average wage several thousand below the National average
There has always been a large section of society that lives pretty much hand to mouth and £10 is the difference between eating/not eating
A lot of these people have been hit really hard by Covid as their zero hours/minimum wage jobs have been decimated
But, my real concern is the large numbers in good jobs, with mortgages and “good lifestyles” that are absolutely maxed to the hilt and have zero savings and zero spare every month, with commitments that meet or exceed their monthly income
They aren’t actually far off the situation of the first group as they have a lifestyle built on low prices/cheap credit, in someways the first group living in social housing might be in a better place if it all comes tumbling down around them
On talking to people I’ve been quite shocked to find the number living in nice houses with nice cars and great social lives that really don’t have a pot to piss in
It could be interesting times ahead
There has always been a large section of society that lives pretty much hand to mouth and £10 is the difference between eating/not eating
A lot of these people have been hit really hard by Covid as their zero hours/minimum wage jobs have been decimated
But, my real concern is the large numbers in good jobs, with mortgages and “good lifestyles” that are absolutely maxed to the hilt and have zero savings and zero spare every month, with commitments that meet or exceed their monthly income
They aren’t actually far off the situation of the first group as they have a lifestyle built on low prices/cheap credit, in someways the first group living in social housing might be in a better place if it all comes tumbling down around them
On talking to people I’ve been quite shocked to find the number living in nice houses with nice cars and great social lives that really don’t have a pot to piss in
It could be interesting times ahead
Lots of “comfortable middle class wfh” types have been spunking money at an alarming rate he past couple of years. Huge mortgages, extra mortgages on extensions, little savings etc etc
ked over.ked over’, it does seem that those who’ve experienced a comfortable pandemic where they’ve been able to work from home and are making serious savings on work related costs (rail season tickets, petrol, lunches, etc) have done little with those savings to cover themselves when things start to get tight. They see an extra £500 in their take home and immediately spend it on kitchens, cars, etc rather than hold back and build a decent buffer for hard times.It will be a tough year ahead for many people who would have never expected to be in such a position previously.
I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.
JagLover said:
Welshbeef said:
Meat costs a lot so a family who are in a situation you describe could simply cut down on meat consumption - jacket potatoes beans, or a big veg stew costs peanuts and will feed so many ditto chic peas and tarka Dhals. Lovely meals which are so cheap to buy and prepare.
That is true enough. The main cost effective meat is chicken and that forms the vast majority of our meat consumption with pork, and, even more expensive, lamb a less frequent treat.I’ve not yet done vegan weeks or x days a week. I’m / we’re trying more and more meat free dishes for the clear health benefits it gives and again a nod to sustainability.
Keeping meat and red meat for special occasions / and then go for the pricier cuts.
RUSTILLDOWN said:
30 years ago everyone was getting huge inflation salary increases and house prices increased significantly (in effect, savings).
Since then inflation calculations have moved from RPI to CPI and then CPI is regularly tweaked (in effect, to reduce it).
Everyone knows that inflation is double or triple the official statistic. Trouble ahead!
Yes, we got pay rises, and house prices went up a bit, so things more or less evened out over the years.Since then inflation calculations have moved from RPI to CPI and then CPI is regularly tweaked (in effect, to reduce it).
Everyone knows that inflation is double or triple the official statistic. Trouble ahead!
It was the time between the annual pay increases that was scary though. Mortgage payments going up every few months, watching the Budget to see how much more tax we'd have to pay.
And then the bottom fell out of the housing market - negative equity, repossessions, interest-only mortgages with life policies that would never pay off the balance.
I bought my first house in 1984. Tiny new-build semi in Milton Keynes. 2 of us with average incomes, no kids, just about scraping by, no savings.
When I sold up and moved to Cornwall in 1998, I got 50% more than I paid for the house. Not exactly a boom period.
The next decade saw a bit more stability, and my house went up a lot more. Bought in 1998 for £64k, sold in 2009 for £165k.
The last 10 years have seen low inflation, low pay rises, but my current house - bought for £205k - is now knocking on £400k.
Maybe prolonged stability encourages many younger people to push their budgets to the limit, while those that started out in the 1980's remember the "bad old days", and play it safe?
Donbot said:
If that's the case we are going to have to accept a load more elderly seasonal death.
Oh wait . . . .
Plus, you post is very 'I'm alright jack'.
So the solution is those who are not “poor” should get a special low rate for energy and discount for food but everyone else gets a much higher than expected gas and electric charge to pay for the poor and subsidise their food bills? Oh wait . . . .
Plus, you post is very 'I'm alright jack'.
Or we turn back on the coal power stations - but we have committed to net zero.
So what is your solution instead of stating more deaths?
Gecko1978 said:
What % of people are we talking about about an those in that situation will i assume be in recipt of maximum benefits already so no council tax, rent paid, access to food banks even Its a grim existence of course but not a common one. What will happen is those who get buy today might not be able to tomorrow but because they have work might not get benefits as I say eat or mortgage is not a great choice but as we saw in 2008 when people cant pay the bills then everyone suffers
Eat or Mortgage? Sell the house and move to part of the country where you can afford to live.... You know, just like all those in minimum wage jobs just need to work harder and educate themselves to improve themselves.tannhauser said:
I’m not on about those who’ve benefited so far from the pandemic, such as those able to WFH of which I am one; I’m talking about the general populace who are superficially “well off” flashing the cash, new fancy cars every couple of years, mortgages they have overextended on and have no hope of paying off, and those who spunk all their money up the wall with nothing to show for their earnings at the end of the month etc. Those who look down on others who are more prudent, drive older cars, are careful with their money etc. and think those who question the narrative, the fact houses are 10x earnings etc have a screw loose.
I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.
I do get what you are saying, I too worked from home and as mentioned I could not claim furlough as I am a contractor, but WFH is common in my line of work anyway. An I dirve a 4 year old 900cc Renault so no IT contractor 911 on pcp for me (other stereo types are available). But say there is the crash you hope for. in 2008 who did it hurt? people at the very bottom who then could not get work that's who the rich just bought up assets.I hope the whole house of cards collapses - it’s long overdue.
If you want to make people better off they need at all levels to keep more of their income and then be responsible for the outcomes. Buy a merc on pcp loose your job tough, on mimimum wage then zero tax for you but you have to put cash aside for the lean times etc or improve your skill set, demand higher wages (lorry drivers springs to mind).
Wishing ill on others won't make ur outcome better often it will make it worse
valiant said:
Whilst I don’t want to see anyone ‘fked over’, it does seem that those who’ve experienced a comfortable pandemic where they’ve been able to work from home and are making serious savings on work related costs (rail season tickets, petrol, lunches, etc) have done little with those savings to cover themselves when things start to get tight. They see an extra £500 in their take home and immediately spend it on kitchens, cars, etc rather than hold back and build a decent buffer for hard times.
It will be a tough year ahead for many people who would have never expected to be in such a position previously.
We have saved a huge amount wfh and not socialising as much and while I don't deny Amazon has done well out of us during lockdown, most of what we bought was stuff we would have got anyway, just we got it online rather than leave the house. We spent a small amount on home improvements, mainly as we were spending a lot more time at home looking at jobs that needed doing. Other than that though, we didn't replace the car as planned, due to not using it anywhere near as much. We also managed to save a lot more and put some towards paying off our BTL mortgage. Luckily my wife is an IFA and looks after the money. If it was left to me the situation would be very different ked over’, it does seem that those who’ve experienced a comfortable pandemic where they’ve been able to work from home and are making serious savings on work related costs (rail season tickets, petrol, lunches, etc) have done little with those savings to cover themselves when things start to get tight. They see an extra £500 in their take home and immediately spend it on kitchens, cars, etc rather than hold back and build a decent buffer for hard times.It will be a tough year ahead for many people who would have never expected to be in such a position previously.
ant1973 said:
I think the issue is that if we were still burning coal, energy prices would be lower. Ditto if we were still bringing more carbon energy online. This is where the green agenda meets reality. People are in favour of the green agenda, as long as someone else is paying.... Rising energy prices have the potential to make the poll tax riots look like a small pub fight...
I'm not sure I'd go as far as to suggest that rising energy costs might trigger riots, but I do think that this issue will become a major one during 2022. Along with petrol/diesel fuel prices, (presumably) higher council tax, the NI increase and more expensive food, very many British families will start to feel much poorer during the next few months. Boris might feel unpopular right now, but it's about to get much worse for him...........I completely agree with your point about the green agenda. Almost everyone I know thinks we should "save the planet". But those same people complain about their energy bills, ignoring the fact that nearly 20% of dual fuel bills is environmental/ social costs according to Ofgem.
Edited by Brave Fart on Wednesday 29th December 12:46
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