Boris Johnson-Prime Minister (Vol 8)

Boris Johnson-Prime Minister (Vol 8)

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Cobracc

3,343 posts

149 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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cirian75 said:
News reporter "So the parties were illegal?"

The Met "Yes."

News reporter "And the people who attended did so illegally?"

The Met "Exactly."

News reporter "And they were fined?"

The Met "Yes."

News reporter "And Boris Johnson was at some of these parties?"

The Met "Yes."

News Reported "But you've only fined him for one?"

The Met "Yep"

News Reporter "You fined junior staff several times?"

The Met "yes"
A virus so deadly, Johnson and his cronies were getting pissed up every week. At least people got to die alone without their loved ones by their side....

DeejRC

5,708 posts

81 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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Frik said:
Yep. Predictions of him going by the end of the summer looking increasingly unlikely, too. Can't see anything changing for now, though the CoLC will continue to build pressure. As will the NI issue.
That one is mine. I believe Clapham has him at the Tory Party Conference in the autumn. I will be fairly amazed if he survives beyond there.
Im largely silent on these threads these days, but Im happy to hold my hand up to my analysis and predictions.

don'tbesilly

13,900 posts

162 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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I'm not sure who is the more upset at today's news from the Met, Pippa Crerar or Paul Brand.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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bhstewie said:
Quite right too Murph.

Blame the juniors.

Blame Stratton.

Johnson should stay though because it's all fluff and it's definitely not the leaders fault.
Who's "blaming the juniors"...try and read and understand before bashing your keyboard furiously.

They could well have been invited. Could well have been invited to more than BoJo was. And could well have been told it was OK (like BoJo was wink). Not their "fault", but they get the FPNs anyway. No conspiracy theory. No defending Johnson. Just putting forwards a perfectly possible explanation to why the juniors might receive more FPNs than BoJo.

Allegra? Blame her for he own stupidity/incompetence? Yes indeed. Guilty as charged. If she'd been my head of comms and been caught doing that, I'd have fired her too. I'm assuming you'd have given her a pay rise and perhaps a piece of cake?

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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I think there does need to be a clear explanation why only some of those present at some of the parties were fined - if the gathering was against the rules, then surely anyone who attended it should have been issued an FPN?

BBC makes an attempt at explains here - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61516186 .
Their example is that if people had been working together, then had a leaving drink, that would be okay. But if the quick drink became a party (presumably music playing, etc) then FPNs could be issued to those who remained.

If Durham police are using the same criteria, I guess Starmer is safe.

bitchstewie

50,782 posts

209 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Murph7355 said:
Who's "blaming the juniors"...try and read and understand before bashing your keyboard furiously.

They could well have been invited. Could well have been invited to more than BoJo was. And could well have been told it was OK (like BoJo was wink). Not their "fault", but they get the FPNs anyway. No conspiracy theory. No defending Johnson. Just putting forwards a perfectly possible explanation to why the juniors might receive more FPNs than BoJo.

Allegra? Blame her for he own stupidity/incompetence? Yes indeed. Guilty as charged. If she'd been my head of comms and been caught doing that, I'd have fired her too. I'm assuming you'd have given her a pay rise and perhaps a piece of cake?
You said it yourself "Maybe the junior staff actually attended more illegal gatherings than others?".

I think a lot of people will question how junior staff were fined for attending events that the Prime Minister also attended and even gave speeches at but wasn't fined for.

Not you of course.

Anyway it's how the Police have found and it doesn't change the lying and deceit both to the public and Parliament.

As for Stratton if you think it's acceptable that she's the only person to have paid with her job and with Johnson's seeming approval it explains a lot about your idea what of leadership looks like.

patronisingwink

Rufus Stone

6,066 posts

55 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Sky news claiming that No. 10 is the most heavily fined workplace in the country. Quite an achievement.

768

13,601 posts

95 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Half a million quid was spent to get it there, I should hope it was.

I suspect the line is just Starmer’s guess, possibly true in terms of the number of fines, especially if you take a broad interpretation of Downing Street. Given they started at £50 a person I doubt it was in total fines unless they issued any of those £10k organiser fines, but I’d have thought we’d have heard about those.

Garvin

5,157 posts

176 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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The brunt of ‘partygate’ has been borne by the junior staff. Completely and utterly predictable. Those baying for the police to get stuck in didn’t give a monkey’s about it previously but are now on their high horses about the unfairness of it all because the focus of their hate only got a single fine. They are now calling into question whether the police did the job correctly because, apparently, they know better. The insistence on the police getting involved to try and nail their target was always narrow minded and was always going to result in collateral damage. Arrogance personified. Well done.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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bhstewie said:
You said it yourself "Maybe the junior staff actually attended more illegal gatherings than others?".

I think a lot of people will question how junior staff were fined for attending events that the Prime Minister also attended and even gave speeches at but wasn't fined for.

Not you of course.

Anyway it's how the Police have found and it doesn't change the lying and deceit both to the public and Parliament.

As for Stratton if you think it's acceptable that she's the only person to have paid with her job and with Johnson's seeming approval it explains a lot about your idea what of leadership looks like.

patronisingwink
You really cannot read, can you?

Do we have any evidence that people attending the same party weren't treated the same? As Garvin notes, you wanted the police involved. Now you seem to be questioning what they've done.

This has never been about openness and honesty. The ONLY outcome you would accept would be Boris resigning. The ONLY one. Keep crying into your cornflakes.

Stratton paid for her own stupidity. No sympathy. Two wrongs do not make a right etc. As I noted, presumably you think what she did was fine (sic) and she would have been rewarded rather than resign? Don't give it large with the whataboutism, what do you think about Stratton's actions that led to her pulling the plug and giving it a bucket load of crocodile tears....?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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How extraordinary.

I’d love to work in some of the organisations you guys apparently work in, the leaders and those responsible can do wtf they want, and the subordinates they’re supposed to be leading, will carry the can and take the blame (and fines) and it’s just dismissed as “collateral damage”

greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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El stovey said:
How extraordinary.

I’d love to work in some of the organisations you guys apparently work in, the leaders and those responsible can do wtf they want, and the subordinates they’re supposed to be leading, will carry the can and take the blame (and fines) and it’s just dismissed as “collateral damage”
It does seem to be a very unequal workplace.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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El stovey said:
How extraordinary.

I’d love to work in some of the organisations you guys apparently work in, the leaders and those responsible can do wtf they want, and the subordinates they’re supposed to be leading, will carry the can and take the blame (and fines) and it’s just dismissed as “collateral damage”
Do you have any evidence that if 10 people were at a disallowed event, all 10 people were not fined?

Do you think that if 10 people were at an event, only 1 of them should have been fined? Which one?

We don't know the details of the fines or events. As yet at least.

If 9 Juniors and Boris were at an event and he didn't get fined but the other 9 did, I'll get all frothy with you and BS about it. But we don't know. Yet.

If the boss of megacorp was at home or head office doing his job, and it came to light later that staff in one of his offices had been partying, would you expect megacorp boss to resign? Poor leadership/culture/etc? Sure. More? Doubtful.

Should poor leadership be a reason for MPs/Ministers/party leaders to resign....? Ideally, yes. How many would be left? A very round number, from what we are seeing. Does that excuse anything? Of course it doesn't. But there's a real world outside of The Guardian and YouGov polls. Their leadership overall gets judged every 5yrs. Bring on judgement day smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Garvin said:
The brunt of ‘partygate’ has been borne by the junior staff. Completely and utterly predictable.
Completely and utterly predictable because their boss is such a poor leader and is a poor decision maker, dishonest, and avoids accountability so when it all keeps going wrong for him, he let’s others below him take the blame for his many failings.

Yet you, instead of looking at those responsible for these behaviours and actions, who should be accountable. . . Hilariously try to blame people pointing out his failings, due to your ridiculous partisanship.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Murph7355 said:
Should poor leadership be a reason for MPs/Ministers/party leaders to resign....? Ideally, yes. How many would be left? A very round number, from what we are seeing. Does that excuse anything? Of course it doesn't. But there's a real world outside of The Guardian and YouGov polls. Their leadership overall gets judged every 5yrs. Bring on judgement day smile
In the real world (where I and presumably you work) leaders get judged all the time and Boris would have been sacked or asked to resign ages ago.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
El stovey said:
Garvin said:
The brunt of ‘partygate’ has been borne by the junior staff. Completely and utterly predictable.
Completely and utterly predictable because their boss is such a poor leader and is a poor decision maker, dishonest, and avoids accountability so when it all keeps going wrong for him, he let’s others below him take the blame for his many failings.

Yet you, instead of looking at those responsible for these behaviours and actions, who should be accountable. . . Hilariously try to blame people pointing out his failings, due to your ridiculous partisanship.
At least we have my beloved balance ES.

You and BS only wanting Boris fined no matter who was there (incl Boris). Garvin and I think those who insisted the police were involved are reaping what they sowed...

Unless we think the police aren't acting fairly/evenly. Which seems to be approaching tin foil territory and is some allegation.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Murph7355 said:
At least we have my beloved balance ES.

You and BS only wanting Boris fined no matter who was there (incl Boris). Garvin and I think those who insisted the police were involved are reaping what they sowed...

Unless we think the police aren't acting fairly/evenly. Which seems to be approaching tin foil territory and is some allegation.
You clearly have no idea what I want.

I want the country to have a better PM and Boris to be replaced by the conservatives (with another conservative), as soon as possible.

You apparently also want a better pm but are willing to give him a free ride due to political allegiances. I have no such strong political allegiances so don’t constantly tie myself in knots, like you endlessly trying to defend him whilst pretending to be adding balance.

blueg33

35,586 posts

223 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Genuine question

When it comes to management of the workplace that is number 10. Is Boris a leader? Does he have a leadership role? My guess is no in terms of civil servants and yes in terms of polical appointees like special advisors etc.

IMO responsibility for the parties lies with the leadership as much as the individual, be that leadership a civil service role or a political role. Serious errors of judgement have been made, errors of judgement in leadership that would lose someone their job in the private sector.

As far as BJ is concerned IMO its more about misleading people and 1984 style history management and "doublethink" that I think is wrong.


anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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blueg33 said:
Genuine question

When it comes to management of the workplace that is number 10. Is Boris a leader? Does he have a leadership role? My guess is no in terms of civil servants and yes in terms of polical appointees like special advisors etc.

IMO responsibility for the parties lies with the leadership as much as the individual, be that leadership a civil service role or a political role. Serious errors of judgement have been made, errors of judgement in leadership that would lose someone their job in the private sector.

As far as BJ is concerned IMO its more about misleading people and 1984 style history management and "doublethink" that I think is wrong.
Quite, and that’s what most impartial people would think also and what would happen in most (real world) workplaces,

If you were constantly trying to make excuses for the leader though you’d be blaming his subordinates (or even those pointing out his failings) and then say you’re just taking a “real world” view or adding balance.


cirian75

4,245 posts

232 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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Been reading the majority of those fined are female.

In spite of the majority of party goers being male.
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