CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)
Discussion
Hants PHer said:
<snipped for brevity.
Isaldiri thinks my anger won't achieve anything, and he may be right. But I can't simply ignore the massive damage that the fools who govern us have inflicted. And you know the worst thing? I think if there was Covid-23 tomorrow, we'd make the same damn mistakes all over again.
Slight correction if I may - I think the anger as directed at the general public for compliance won't really achieve anything because human nature is what it is. And the latter is pretty much exactly why as you say if there was covid 23 tomorrow, the whole mess will repeat itself. Isaldiri thinks my anger won't achieve anything, and he may be right. But I can't simply ignore the massive damage that the fools who govern us have inflicted. And you know the worst thing? I think if there was Covid-23 tomorrow, we'd make the same damn mistakes all over again.
isaldiri said:
Slight correction if I may - I think the anger as directed at the general public for compliance won't really achieve anything because human nature is what it is. And the latter is pretty much exactly why as you say if there was covid 23 tomorrow, the whole mess will repeat itself.
Fair enough. I wasn't having a go, and I suspect we're broadly in agreement. 
Hants PHer said:
That is really sad to hear. My mother has two friends - she and they are in their 80's now - with whom she is very close. For nearly three years now, they have point blank refused to meet my mother at their, or at her, house. About two weeks ago they finally relented and Mum went to theirs for tea. Her friends kept their masks on, asked Mum to sanitise her hands, and would not shake hands let alone hug. None of them are especially vulnerable, none are immuno-compromised and they have all had every jab and booster going.
THAT is the legacy of fear that society has created, and, yes, it makes me angry. Not least because my mother is very, very lonely and now she can't even touch her best friends. Isaldiri thinks my anger won't achieve anything, and he may be right. But I can't simply ignore the massive damage that the fools who govern us have inflicted. And you know the worst thing? I think if there was Covid-23 tomorrow, we'd make the same damn mistakes all over again.
In 24 hours we went from schools open and BAU to absolute lockdown and people leaping out of the way of each other on the daily exercise allowance. And we weren't even the strictest country...THAT is the legacy of fear that society has created, and, yes, it makes me angry. Not least because my mother is very, very lonely and now she can't even touch her best friends. Isaldiri thinks my anger won't achieve anything, and he may be right. But I can't simply ignore the massive damage that the fools who govern us have inflicted. And you know the worst thing? I think if there was Covid-23 tomorrow, we'd make the same damn mistakes all over again.
It is the legacy but I think we have also learned - for the future - no hard lock downs, no closed schools (also a real legacy of damage)... either way it was probably the most effective public information / behavioural shift ever implemented.
isaldiri said:
Ok according to you, midazolam was heavily prescribed all over the world just coincidentally a few weeks after big rises of covid infections were expected that was the main cause of excess deaths. Oh and covid as per spring 2020 was 'a common cold'.
Suit yourself.
Not exactly what I said, but it'll do.Suit yourself.
To reply in kind, according to you it was all just a misunderstanding, a knee jerk over reaction to a disease which thankfully turned out to be less deadly than it initially seemed. If we just look at the right data in the right way people will see this. Lessons will be learned and those who did cynically use it to their advantage will be brought to justice.
I kind of hope you're right but I can't believe it. That world vanished for me in 2020.
It was b
ks from day 1. The political and financial gain was the point and the cynical manipulation was the method they chose at the outset. You might as well try dissuade to Lenin and Trotsky from revolution by telling them about the progress made under modest liberal reforms.JuanCarlosFandango said:
They were dropping dead in the street in Wuhan and Lombardy.
The big spike in excess deaths in April and May 2020 corresponds a lot more closely with midazolam prescriptions than it does with covid tests.
The fact is covid was a common cold and the response was an exercise in psychology and manipulation, for which fear of a disease was a respectable cover.
Agreed, this was blown way out of proportion at the start, then once mass testing came in it just snowballed. If we tested everyone for HIV every single day, the false positivity on that would be enough to keep everyone in doors forever and not go near another human! It was an insane response, and continues to be. The big spike in excess deaths in April and May 2020 corresponds a lot more closely with midazolam prescriptions than it does with covid tests.
The fact is covid was a common cold and the response was an exercise in psychology and manipulation, for which fear of a disease was a respectable cover.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Not exactly what I said, but it'll do.
To reply in kind, according to you it was all just a misunderstanding, a knee jerk over reaction to a disease which thankfully turned out to be less deadly than it initially seemed. If we just look at the right data in the right way people will see this. Lessons will be learned and those who did cynically use it to their advantage will be brought to justice.
I kind of hope you're right but I can't believe it. That world vanished for me in 2020.
It was bks from day 1. The political and financial gain was the point and the cynical manipulation was the method they chose at the outset. You might as well try dissuade to Lenin and Trotsky from revolution by telling them about the progress made under modest liberal reforms.
Here here. I view the World completely differently now, there’s no turning back that clock for me. To reply in kind, according to you it was all just a misunderstanding, a knee jerk over reaction to a disease which thankfully turned out to be less deadly than it initially seemed. If we just look at the right data in the right way people will see this. Lessons will be learned and those who did cynically use it to their advantage will be brought to justice.
I kind of hope you're right but I can't believe it. That world vanished for me in 2020.
It was b
ks from day 1. The political and financial gain was the point and the cynical manipulation was the method they chose at the outset. You might as well try dissuade to Lenin and Trotsky from revolution by telling them about the progress made under modest liberal reforms.jameswills said:
Here here. I view the World completely differently now, there’s no turning back that clock for me.
What I'm still trying to figure out is whether it was always like this - a complete pack of lies - and just became obvious then, or has it been steadily getting worse and this was just the most extreme case yet?JuanCarlosFandango said:
To reply in kind, according to you it was all just a misunderstanding, a knee jerk over reaction to a disease which thankfully turned out to be less deadly than it initially seemed. If we just look at the right data in the right way people will see this. Lessons will be learned and those who did cynically use it to their advantage will be brought to justice.
I kind of hope you're right but I can't believe it. That world vanished for me in 2020.
Well, unlike you stating with the certainty you did that covid was just a common cold, if you have ever found a post from me where I said any of - I kind of hope you're right but I can't believe it. That world vanished for me in 2020.
'it was just a misunderstanding', 'we just need to look at the right data in the right way people will see this', 'lessons will be learned' and especially 'those who cynically used covid to their advantage will be brought to justice'
Please point me to that and I'd then agree that 'according to me' any or all of the above was the case. You won't find it but it won't stop you painting anyone who disagrees with you as someone who believes in that.
And I'm genuinely sorry if you believe the world vanished for you in 2020. I'm however also equally glad that most other people at this point have not chosen to mark the pandemic as something that has permanently change the way they live their life.
He's not alone though. The world has irrevocably changed for me too. I feel like the Wizard of Oz's curtain has been pulled. I mean, I knew that all governments were fetid pools of corruption, but I believed that, in the west at least, it was kept out of sight and punished when outed. Now I see that even when presented with concrete evidence of their incompetence, embezzlement, nepotism, hands in the till, and downright dishonesty they either lie about it or shrug their shoulders and nobody seems to care. Why are they not being held to account?
I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
Edited by BrewsterBear on Wednesday 29th March 04:01
BrewsterBear said:
He's not alone though. The world has irrevocably changed for me too. I feel like the Wizard of Oz's curtain has been pulled. I mean, I knew that all governments were fetid pools of corruption, but I believed that, in the west at least, it was kept out of sight and punished when outed. Now I see that even when presented with concrete evidence of their incompetence, embezzlement, nepotism, hands in the till, and downright dishonesty they either lie about it or shrug their shoulders and nobody seems to care. Why are they not being held to account?
I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
Well said.I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
This was a script they have used before and they will do it all again. There are no consequences. No-one in power will be held to account. Our liberal democracy is a sham, but it is enough to prevent the cattle from getting restless. Add the occasional fright and you can shunt them in any direction you want. That direction, the destination even, was decided some decades ago. You won't like it. But you will be happy according to the YouGov poll results.
That's the thing, I don't believe there was any conspiracy around it. It was simply a case of not letting a good crisis go to waste and we only have ourselves to blame. We allowed and contine to allow the political class to get away with it.
Our apathy towards the whole thing paved the road in gold which they filled their pockets with and nearly nobody batted an eyelid. Those that pointed out the folly of a never ending road of gold were shouted down as naysayers and selfish granny killers. Silenced. Cancelled. Ostracised.
Once they knew we'd allow them to get away with it they kept paving that road, telling us we'd only survive if we kept building mile after mile. Now that the road has turned out to lead to nowhere except bankruptcy and double-digit inflation it's Putins fault. And Liz Truss. And CO2. And everyone laps it up because they've moved on. They did their best. We did what we had to. No biggie.
It boggles my mind and infuriates in equal measure. The last 3 years have been the biggest swindle in human history. Not through careful, Machiavellian planning. Simply because we can't be arsed to stand up to it or are too apathetic to bother.
Our apathy towards the whole thing paved the road in gold which they filled their pockets with and nearly nobody batted an eyelid. Those that pointed out the folly of a never ending road of gold were shouted down as naysayers and selfish granny killers. Silenced. Cancelled. Ostracised.
Once they knew we'd allow them to get away with it they kept paving that road, telling us we'd only survive if we kept building mile after mile. Now that the road has turned out to lead to nowhere except bankruptcy and double-digit inflation it's Putins fault. And Liz Truss. And CO2. And everyone laps it up because they've moved on. They did their best. We did what we had to. No biggie.
It boggles my mind and infuriates in equal measure. The last 3 years have been the biggest swindle in human history. Not through careful, Machiavellian planning. Simply because we can't be arsed to stand up to it or are too apathetic to bother.
Edited by BrewsterBear on Wednesday 29th March 07:17
BrewsterBear said:
That's the thing, I don't believe there was any conspiracy around it. It was simply a case of not letting a good crisis go to waste and we only have ourselves to blame. We allowed and contine to allow the political class to get away with it.
Our apathy towards the whole thing paved the road in gold which they filled their pockets with and nearly nobody batted an eyelid. Those that pointed out the folly of a never ending road of gold were shouted down as naysayers and selfish granny killers. Silenced. Cancelled. Ostracised.
Once they knew we'd allow them to get away with it they kept paving that road, telling us we'd only survive if we kept building mile after mile. Now that the road has turned out to lead to nowhere except bankruptcy and double-digit inflation it's Putins fault. And Liz Truss. And CO2. And everyone laps it up because they've moved on. They did their best. We did what we had to. No biggie.
It boggles my mind and infuriates in equal measure. The last 3 years have been the biggest swindle in human history. Not through careful, Machiavellian planning. Simply because we can't be arsed to stand up to it or are too apathetic to bother.
Oh I don't think that there was one, single, big conspiracy. It was all too big for that. Many groups have had "How to profit from the next pandemic" plans for decades, refined with experience of AIDS and Swine Flu. This time they swung into action fast, with tests and masks and constant news coverage. And they all made out like bandits. And we let them.Our apathy towards the whole thing paved the road in gold which they filled their pockets with and nearly nobody batted an eyelid. Those that pointed out the folly of a never ending road of gold were shouted down as naysayers and selfish granny killers. Silenced. Cancelled. Ostracised.
Once they knew we'd allow them to get away with it they kept paving that road, telling us we'd only survive if we kept building mile after mile. Now that the road has turned out to lead to nowhere except bankruptcy and double-digit inflation it's Putins fault. And Liz Truss. And CO2. And everyone laps it up because they've moved on. They did their best. We did what we had to. No biggie.
It boggles my mind and infuriates in equal measure. The last 3 years have been the biggest swindle in human history. Not through careful, Machiavellian planning. Simply because we can't be arsed to stand up to it or are too apathetic to bother.
No biggie.
isaldiri said:
Well, unlike you stating with the certainty you did that covid was just a common cold, if you have ever found a post from me where I said any of -
'it was just a misunderstanding', 'we just need to look at the right data in the right way people will see this', 'lessons will be learned' and especially 'those who cynically used covid to their advantage will be brought to justice'
Please point me to that and I'd then agree that 'according to me' any or all of the above was the case. You won't find it but it won't stop you painting anyone who disagrees with you as someone who believes in that.
And I'm genuinely sorry if you believe the world vanished for you in 2020. I'm however also equally glad that most other people at this point have not chosen to mark the pandemic as something that has permanently change the way they live their life.
Mayhe the same place I said midazolam explained every death in the world. In fact I said the spike seems to correspond closely with the spring 2020 excess deaths, and I only have figures for UK.'it was just a misunderstanding', 'we just need to look at the right data in the right way people will see this', 'lessons will be learned' and especially 'those who cynically used covid to their advantage will be brought to justice'
Please point me to that and I'd then agree that 'according to me' any or all of the above was the case. You won't find it but it won't stop you painting anyone who disagrees with you as someone who believes in that.
And I'm genuinely sorry if you believe the world vanished for you in 2020. I'm however also equally glad that most other people at this point have not chosen to mark the pandemic as something that has permanently change the way they live their life.
I was paraphrasing the reasonabilist position you seem to take in the same way. It was indeed a common cold and as far as I can see if the government had made no response at all we would be better off for it.
BrewsterBear said:
He's not alone though. The world has irrevocably changed for me too. I feel like the Wizard of Oz's curtain has been pulled. I mean, I knew that all governments were fetid pools of corruption, but I believed that, in the west at least, it was kept out of sight and punished when outed. Now I see that even when presented with concrete evidence of their incompetence, embezzlement, nepotism, hands in the till, and downright dishonesty they either lie about it or shrug their shoulders and nobody seems to care. Why are they not being held to account?
I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
The thing for me was that, until Mar 2020, I though it we had enough checks and balances socially and constitutionally to avoid catastrophic mistakes being made in the interests of populism. I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
None of those checks and balances worked:
1. The human rights lobby, which is broadly left wing, decided to look the other way because they thought ‘the end justified the means’. The only real exception being Big Brother Watch, who are at least trying to remember their purpose.
2. The judiciary decided that the courts should not get involved.
3. The people responsible for protecting the public purse did whatever they were told because it was an emergency.
4. Parliament failed, because it was swept along in the groupthink and there was no difference between the Govt and the opposition.
So our rights were constrained for months on end and our financial resources were squandered because it came down to the whim of a handful of people who were entirely unsuited for the roles that were thrust upon them. The leaked What’s Apps and rule breaking in Downing Street prove that categorically.
We ONLY got out of this because Parliament eventually did it’s job and put pressure on the Govt to exercise a degree of financial responsibility. The fact that this was driven by Tory backbenchers rather than Labour should be forever to Starmer’s shame. He failed us all.
Understanding what happened and finding ways to limit the risk of it repeating is important. It’s not ‘reasonable’ to shrug our shoulders and ignore it on the basis that it’s what people do.
That has never been our way in the past and I don’t think it will be in the future.
Edited by Elysium on Wednesday 29th March 09:06
Elysium said:
The thing for me was that, until Mar 2020, I though it we had enough checks and balances socially and constitutionally to avoid catastrophic mistakes being made in the interests of populism.
None of those checks and balances worked:
1. The human rights lobby, which is broadly left wing, decided to look the other way because they thought ‘the end justified the means’. The only real exception being Big Brother Watch, who are at least trying to remember their purpose.
2. The judiciary decided that the courts should not get involved.
3. The people responsible for protecting the public purse did whatever they were told because it was an emergency.
4. Parliament failed, because it was swept along in the groupthink and there was no difference between the Govt and the opposition.
So our rights were constrained for months on end and our financial resources were squandered because it came down to the whim of a handful of people who were entirely unsuited for the roles that were thrust upon them. The leaked What’s Apps and rule breaking in Downing Street prove that categorically.
We ONLY got out of this because Parliament eventually did it’s job and put pressure on the Govt to exercise a degree of financial responsibility. The fact that this was driven by Tory backbenchers rather than Labour should be forever to Starmer’s shame. He failed us all.
Understanding what happened and finding ways to limit the risk of it repeating is important. It’s not ‘reasonable’ to shrug our shoulders and ignore it on the basis that it’s what people do.
That has never been our way in the past and I don’t think it will be in the future.
Brewster, that's exactly how I feel. Well put!None of those checks and balances worked:
1. The human rights lobby, which is broadly left wing, decided to look the other way because they thought ‘the end justified the means’. The only real exception being Big Brother Watch, who are at least trying to remember their purpose.
2. The judiciary decided that the courts should not get involved.
3. The people responsible for protecting the public purse did whatever they were told because it was an emergency.
4. Parliament failed, because it was swept along in the groupthink and there was no difference between the Govt and the opposition.
So our rights were constrained for months on end and our financial resources were squandered because it came down to the whim of a handful of people who were entirely unsuited for the roles that were thrust upon them. The leaked What’s Apps and rule breaking in Downing Street prove that categorically.
We ONLY got out of this because Parliament eventually did it’s job and put pressure on the Govt to exercise a degree of financial responsibility. The fact that this was driven by Tory backbenchers rather than Labour should be forever to Starmer’s shame. He failed us all.
Understanding what happened and finding ways to limit the risk of it repeating is important. It’s not ‘reasonable’ to shrug our shoulders and ignore it on the basis that it’s what people do.
That has never been our way in the past and I don’t think it will be in the future.
Edited by Elysium on Wednesday 29th March 09:06
Now there's no political party to vote for, local councils do whatever they want, can't get a doctor's appointment easily, appears that dentists have disappeared unless you are loaded, can't heat our houses etc etc
I feel that we are going backwards very quickly.
BrewsterBear said:
He's not alone though. The world has irrevocably changed for me too. I feel like the Wizard of Oz's curtain has been pulled. I mean, I knew that all governments were fetid pools of corruption, but I believed that, in the west at least, it was kept out of sight and punished when outed. Now I see that even when presented with concrete evidence of their incompetence, embezzlement, nepotism, hands in the till, and downright dishonesty they either lie about it or shrug their shoulders and nobody seems to care. Why are they not being held to account?
I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
This is exactly how I feel too, cheers for posting this. It's really good to know I'm not the only one, so thank you I feel like the contract I had with the UK government has been broken and there's no way to fix it. They still expect me to keep up my side by paying in far more than I take, but they have no intention of upholding their side by providing a free and fair society. They don't even hide it any more. That they still haven't rescinded the power to place me under house arrest at will is chilling. That even with messages written by ministers stating they know it was all political theatre, people still think it's "no biggie." It all makes me literally feel sick. I have never felt less proud to be British in my entire life and there's nothing I can do about it. I am politically homeless with the only choice being between a sh!t sandwich or turd on toast.
The West as I knew it is dying and it's terminal. Tearing itself apart over whether women have penises, how many genders there are, how much we owe ex-colonies for things done hundreds of years ago, how many masks can save just one life, how many years of my life I should give up so Doris can have an extra 6 months to cower behind her sofa bleaching her mail. Whatever the western dream was, it's over. And then people wonder why Putin had the temerity to invade. I feel like we've never been closer to WWIII.
My outlook on life, the world, and everything, has changed. In some ways for good and in others for bad. I'm travelling a lot this year and for the next few before they stop us doing that again, in the name of a new bug, new war, net zero, or whatever they like as nobody will stop them. Maybe I'll find a part of the world I feel I fit in better. Whatever the outcome, it's now me and mine first and f**k everyone else. The majority have proven themselves not worth attempting to save. If they're willing to accept the status quo then they're welcome to it. It saddens me to feel that way, but when people won't even help themselves then there really is no alternative.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
jameswills said:
Here here. I view the World completely differently now, there’s no turning back that clock for me.
What I'm still trying to figure out is whether it was always like this - a complete pack of lies - and just became obvious then, or has it been steadily getting worse and this was just the most extreme case yet?t mental again at the drop of a hat.It's really taken the wind out of my sails and I'm in a very different place mentally than I used to be
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Mayhe the same place I said midazolam explained every death in the world. In fact I said the spike seems to correspond closely with the spring 2020 excess deaths, and I only have figures for UK.
I was paraphrasing the reasonabilist position you seem to take in the same way.
Here - I was paraphrasing the reasonabilist position you seem to take in the same way.
isaldiri said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
...
There was no discernible spike in total deaths until well after the first lockdown started.
...There was no discernible spike in total deaths until well after the first lockdown started.
It tends to take a while for people to drop dead after infection so it's not exactly a shock that death rates only increased post lockdown1. Also given the rather clear rise in excess deaths well... anywhere one might want to look in the world corresponding to covid spread in 2020, I rather doubt the 2 were unrelated at all.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
...
The big spike in excess deaths in April and May 2020 corresponds a lot more closely with midazolam prescriptions than it does with covid tests.
Be interested to see where on any of my posts 'according to me' I had said or implied what you had stated I did.The big spike in excess deaths in April and May 2020 corresponds a lot more closely with midazolam prescriptions than it does with covid tests.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
jameswills said:
Here here. I view the World completely differently now, there’s no turning back that clock for me.
What I'm still trying to figure out is whether it was always like this - a complete pack of lies - and just became obvious then, or has it been steadily getting worse and this was just the most extreme case yet?They’ve always had their snouts in the trough but it’s got noticeabily worse over the last few years. I never used to take much notice of politics but since covid I sure do now.
I remember my dear old mum laughing her head off at 70’s sitcoms such as Rising Damp and Steptoe and Son when there were politicians involved. She always hated politicians and could sniff out bulls
t and wrong doing from miles away (and Saville & Glitter..) I never understood why at the time but now I do. I’m not as young as I used to be, I doubt that I am going to bother voting next time. I do hope that they come knocking on my door looking for votes in the next election. It’s likely that I shall be cleaning my upstairs windows with a bucket of water, and I’ll be ready for them. They’d better get off my property pretty quick or else they will be getting very wet!
Hants PHer said:
That is really sad to hear. My mother has two friends - she and they are in their 80's now - with whom she is very close. For nearly three years now, they have point blank refused to meet my mother at their, or at her, house. About two weeks ago they finally relented and Mum went to theirs for tea. Her friends kept their masks on, asked Mum to sanitise her hands, and would not shake hands let alone hug. None of them are especially vulnerable, none are immuno-compromised and they have all had every jab and booster going.
THAT is the legacy of fear that society has created, and, yes, it makes me angry. Not least because my mother is very, very lonely and now she can't even touch her best friends. Isaldiri thinks my anger won't achieve anything, and he may be right. But I can't simply ignore the massive damage that the fools who govern us have inflicted. And you know the worst thing? I think if there was Covid-23 tomorrow, we'd make the same damn mistakes all over again.
Totally agree. The government wound everyone up to (in many cases) a fever pitch on the basis that if they needed to persuade everyone then they needed to target the hardest to persuade. Therefore the more easily persuaded were VERY persuaded! THAT is the legacy of fear that society has created, and, yes, it makes me angry. Not least because my mother is very, very lonely and now she can't even touch her best friends. Isaldiri thinks my anger won't achieve anything, and he may be right. But I can't simply ignore the massive damage that the fools who govern us have inflicted. And you know the worst thing? I think if there was Covid-23 tomorrow, we'd make the same damn mistakes all over again.
And then they just left them there! When it was all over there were zero efforts to bring these people back down to reality.
I saw an elderly woman the other day, shuffling along the street in a residential area, on her own, not another soul around (just cars driving past), mask strapped tight across her face.
They remind me of the Japanese soldiers found hiding in the jungle years (sometimes decades) after WW2 ended. No one told them it was over so they were still fighting it.
What a tragic way to live out their remaining years, scared of the very air they breathe and believing that every human is a walking petri dish of death to be avoided.
GSE said:
I doubt that I am going to bother voting next time.
Same.I received my polling card in the post the other day, advising me that I need to bring photo ID with me to the polling station - yet another 'solution' to a non-existent problem.
I suppose I won't even bother spoiling my ballot.
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