CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)

[roger.mellie]

garyhun said:

Maybe all you guys getting jabbed into oblivion are having a bad experience with covid? I’ve only had a single Astra dose and covid was nothing more than a coke for me.

Sample of one is no better than a sample of none.

Keep drinking that coke Gary hun.

Nobody has been jabbed into oblivion.

[isaldiri]

Carl_Manchester said:

Infected? No. Stuck in bed/quarantined from my family in a bedroom for five days? Yes.

Keep in mind whilst all this is going on I can't help with the children either.

I can tell you something now, natural immunity ain't the answer for me, if a new shot comes out I am having it.

Again, what makes you think that any new fancy vaccine is going to be able to reduce symptom severity if even infection recovery isn't doing so? It's nothing other blind belief because the whole basis of how a vaccine actually works is based on what your immune response is aka natural immunity.

roger.mellie said:

Many like to pretend Covid is becoming equivalent to the common cold now, it really isn't..

Well, the UK has been running at high to very high (well over 1% showing as positive a week) for literally months. Excess death rates whether measured by the ONS or the Institute of Actuaries have not been any higher than 'normal'.

Exactly what do you want to call that other than broadly equivalent to the common cold?

[johnboy1975]

Carl_Manchester said:

Infected? No. Stuck in bed/quarantined from my family in a bedroom for five days? Yes.

Keep in mind whilst all this is going on I can't help with the children either.

I can tell you something now, natural immunity ain't the answer for me, if a new shot comes out I am having it.

To be fair, it seems vaccination also isn't the answer. No one's answered the (vital, IMO) question of "if you are boosted, do you get a milder infection than someone with 2 shots?" (You seem to indicate"no"?). Or does the booster just delay the next infection? (And an infection seems to delay the next infection, to the same, or greater length of time. And also provide a more robust immune response AIUI)

And yes, if they managed to get the effacy of the Omicron version up above background noise (no luck as yet, but it's only been 8 months....), that *might* delay your third infection. A bit. Possibly.

You've got a pretty broad immune response now. Presumably a Delta infection and some version of Omicron. Plus the vaccines. That's super duper immunity. I didn't notice my 2nd infection, maybe it will be your third that you don't notice? Fingers crossed

As far as I understand it, the very best way to get a pi variant going would be to vaccinate with an Omicron specific vaccine. I think vaccinating with a vaccine that did something, for a short time, against Delta sealed the deal for Omicron when both were competing with each other

[roger.mellie]

[quote=isaldiri]

Well, the UK has been running at high to very high (well over 1% showing as positive a week) for literally months. Excess death rates whether measured by the ONS or the Institute of Actuaries have not been any higher than 'normal'.

Are you going to try and claim that covid is statistically insignificant in death rates? I don't think you are.

Regardless, I've no intention of getting into the weeds on that, my point was that it's here it's present and it's affecting lifestyles. I've a very low opinion of people who'd expose others to it knowing they're infected, that makes it very different to the common cold in my humble view. It doesn't mean "we're doomed" but don't be an idiot is always good advice and the anti covid crowd has an over supply of idiots.

[survivalist]

roger.mellie said:

isaldiri said:

Well, the UK has been running at high to very high (well over 1% showing as positive a week) for literally months. Excess death rates whether measured by the ONS or the Institute of Actuaries have not been any higher than 'normal'.

Are you going to try and claim that covid is statistically insignificant in death rates? I don't think you are.

Regardless, I've no intention of getting into the weeds on that, my point was that it's here it's present and it's affecting lifestyles. I've a very low opinion of people who'd expose others to it knowing they're infected, that makes it very different to the common cold in my humble view. It doesn't mean "we're doomed" but don't be an idiot is always good advice and the anti covid crowd has an over supply of idiots.

Surely it’s not treated like any other illness? If you feel like death stay at home and recover. If you feel a bit under the weather, have a bit of a cough etc then carry on as normal.

Testing doesn’t seem to be a thing any more so how does anyone really know?

[RemarkLima]

Carl_Manchester said:

Infected? No. Stuck in bed/quarantined from my family in a bedroom for five days? Yes.

Keep in mind whilst all this is going on I can't help with the children either.

I can tell you something now, natural immunity ain't the answer for me, if a new shot comes out I am having it.

My bold, why are you doing this to yourself? Is it some kind of penance? Some kind of self torture?

If you are too unwell to help then fine, but that's no difference with flu, colds, nightmare projects at work right? Why 5 days? Why not 10 still? Given the legal requirement is 0, you can pick a number right?

When Mrs Lima and I had it sequentially last September, followed by one of our kids, we all mucked as much as we could, kept the usual sleeping arrangements - I'm not sure locking yourself in a spare room is really going to be a big help. During the whole saga, no 2 child didn't get it, and still to this day hasn't had it!

[vaud]

survivalist said:

Testing doesn’t seem to be a thing any more so how does anyone really know?

Testing is still happening but it is random sample testing to give a general indication of the prevalence of the virus by region (rather than postcode district)

[survivalist]

vaud said:

survivalist said:

Testing doesn’t seem to be a thing any more so how does anyone really know?

Testing is still happening but it is random sample testing to give a general indication of the prevalence of the virus by region (rather than postcode district)

Indeed, but the average person isn’t testing themselves every time they get symptoms. So overall test rates must be tiny compared to when tests were being handed out like sweets.

[RemarkLima]

roger.mellie said:

Worse than the first one which I barely noticed, not too bad this time either, but when I was sitting in my armchair and my Apple Watch registered my HR at 110 (normal is low 50's when seated) I knew that even if I felt ok my body was working damn hard to make sure I felt that way.

Out of interest, have a you monitored your heart rate with any other illnesses? Especially other respiratory ones, as your pulmonary system will need to be working harder to supply the usual amount of oxygen.

[vaud]

survivalist said:

Indeed, but the average person isn’t testing themselves every time they get symptoms. So overall test rates must be tiny compared to when tests were being handed out like sweets.

They are, but they are enough to give indications that are statistically valid of the current rates, plus I think they are testing for the variants within those samples. So enough to give an indication (I stress indication) of % of population through extrapolation.

[rambo19]

I'm 54, 3 jabs, and it got me last week.
Went to bed tuesday night feeling fine, woke up weds about 5am shaking and freezing cold and had the most awful nightmare.
Stayed in bed until 1500, got up, had 1 cup of tea, went back to bed.
Got up again at 1900, had some food, went back to bed.
Went to work thurs/fri, but felt rough, headache and the most awful sweats!
Feeling better now, but my joints still ache.

[roger.mellie]

RemarkLima said:

roger.mellie said:

Worse than the first one which I barely noticed, not too bad this time either, but when I was sitting in my armchair and my Apple Watch registered my HR at 110 (normal is low 50's when seated) I knew that even if I felt ok my body was working damn hard to make sure I felt that way.

Out of interest, have a you monitored your heart rate with any other illnesses? Especially other respiratory ones, as your pulmonary system will need to be working harder to supply the usual amount of oxygen.

Out of interest I'd love to say yes but I don't normally get sick. Yes I have in many situations though. Excessive booze will pump it very high. Dealing with annoying people doesn't even register as a point of reference. Covid properly put it well above normal.

[Boringvolvodriver]

rambo19 said:

I'm 54, 3 jabs, and it got me last week.
Went to bed tuesday night feeling fine, woke up weds about 5am shaking and freezing cold and had the most awful nightmare.
Stayed in bed until 1500, got up, had 1 cup of tea, went back to bed.
Got up again at 1900, had some food, went back to bed.
Went to work thurs/fri, but felt rough, headache and the most awful sweats!
Feeling better now, but my joints still ache.

Sounds very much like what I felt when I had flu back in the day. Difference was that I couldn’t get out of bed for 4 days let alone go to work.

Did you take a test to know it was covid?

Hope that you fell fully better soon.

[Fastpedeller]

I'm 63, think I had covid Dec 2019. Had an antibody test when it was available June 2020 which said negative. March 21 and May 21 I had my jabs. We are taking part in ONS study, and monthly blood tests for antibodies started July 2021, (Wife didn't have blood testing). We both had covid Sept 2021, and I was only aware (I had it) because Wife had a bad head for a couple of days and tested positive, otherwise I would never have tested as I didn't feel unwell.
Fast forward t now, and my blood test from 3 weeks ago said ' antibodies at the higher level'
Make of that what you will.

[Harrison Bergeron]

Carl_Manchester said:

Infected? No. Stuck in bed/quarantined from my family in a bedroom for five days? Yes.

Keep in mind whilst all this is going on I can't help with the children either.

I can tell you something now, natural immunity ain't the answer for me, if a new shot comes out I am having it.

i'd ask for my money back.

[isaldiri]

roger.mellie said:

Are you going to try and claim that covid is statistically insignificant in death rates? I don't think you are.

I am pointing out despite what would be considered very high levels of covid infections, death rates are not any higher than considered 'normal' in previous years so if covid is that much more terrible and serious than the common cold now, it isn't quite doing what a 'very different' and presumably far more serious respiratory illness should be doing ie killing a lot more people.

There's a pretty damn good justification for people being ill with any respiratory illness whether flu or a cold or any damn thing to avoid exposing others to it. There isn't however any particularly good reason to especially treat covid any differently to all of those previous illnesses.

[Carl_Manchester]

RemarkLima said:

My bold, why are you doing this to yourself? Is it some kind of penance? Some kind of self torture?

If you are too unwell to help then fine, but that's no difference with flu, colds, nightmare projects at work right? Why 5 days? Why not 10 still? Given the legal requirement is 0, you can pick a number right?

Both the missus and the kids (one a baby) were very poorly first time around with covid, the babies lungs have a bacterial infection which arrived after the COVID left, that's 5 months ago now and he still ain't right. Medicine can't help him so he needs to fight it off.

All in all the family was sick for about a month because you have a chain set of infections that all start and end at different times.

With a cold and flu the chances of you infecting your family versus these Omicron variants is low. How many of us here have had a cold or flu and not passed it on? Coronavirus is not like cold or flu in the transmission sense, its highly likely that I will give it to them if I don't isolate at least for a few days.

If I give it to the kids, school and nursery are off limits etc. It's a mess of a situation because you then have two sick parents, two sick kids and no support.

[RemarkLima]

roger.mellie said:

RemarkLima said:

roger.mellie said:

Worse than the first one which I barely noticed, not too bad this time either, but when I was sitting in my armchair and my Apple Watch registered my HR at 110 (normal is low 50's when seated) I knew that even if I felt ok my body was working damn hard to make sure I felt that way.

Out of interest, have a you monitored your heart rate with any other illnesses? Especially other respiratory ones, as your pulmonary system will need to be working harder to supply the usual amount of oxygen.

Out of interest I'd love to say yes but I don't normally get sick. Yes I have in many situations though. Excessive booze will pump it very high. Dealing with annoying people doesn't even register as a point of reference. Covid properly put it well above normal.

So, booze will do the same, and I'm pretty certain a flu would also do the same... One to keep an eye on, but doesn't strike me as compelling evidence that covid is somehow special beyond other respiratory illnesses.

[RemarkLima]

Carl_Manchester said:

RemarkLima said:

My bold, why are you doing this to yourself? Is it some kind of penance? Some kind of self torture?

If you are too unwell to help then fine, but that's no difference with flu, colds, nightmare projects at work right? Why 5 days? Why not 10 still? Given the legal requirement is 0, you can pick a number right?

Both the missus and the kids (one a baby) were very poorly first time around with covid, the babies lungs have a bacterial infection which arrived after the COVID left, that's 5 months ago now and he still ain't right. Medicine can't help him so he needs to fight it off.

All in all the family was sick for about a month because you have a chain set of infections that all start and end at different times.

With a cold and flu the chances of you infecting your family versus these Omicron variants is low. How many of us here have had a cold or flu and not passed it on? Coronavirus is not like cold or flu in the transmission sense, its highly likely that I will give it to them if I don't isolate at least for a few days.

If I give it to the kids, school and nursery are off limits etc. It's a mess of a situation because you then have two sick parents, two sick kids and no support.

That's fair enough, but I've received plenty of colds and sickness from the kids, and probably passed it on to them as well so not sure about the chances of passing these things on are much different?

But given the age of little one and issues, fully appreciate your need to stay away...

[Biggus thingus]

Carl_Manchester said:

Infected? No. Stuck in bed/quarantined from my family in a bedroom for five days? Yes.

Keep in mind whilst all this is going on I can't help with the children either.

I can tell you something now, natural immunity ain't the answer for me, if a new shot comes out I am having it.

You quarantined in a bedroom in the same house as the rest of the family? Against an airborne virus?

Did you seal up all the air vents, wear a surgical gown/mask and st in a bucket for the 5 days?

If not, i'm not sure how you prevented the spread

Given the weather, a tent outside might have been more effective