CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)
Discussion
vixen1700 said:
Yet again loads of people saying the only ones going down with it at the moment are the jabbed. Reading that a lot.
Statistically that would be likely (as 90% plus are jabbed)What we need is a RCT - 1000 jabbed 18-24 year olds, and 1000 unjabbed. Previous infections might well screw the data though, although both groups should by and large have at least one infection behind them. Suspect it would come down to how recently, and with what variant. But it would be "interesting" if the jabbed plus prior infected were catching it more often than the unjabbed plus prior infected.
J210 said:
Nothing to see here just a stupidly large contact for more tests.
https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/notice/...
It doesn’t say what the tests are to be used for though. IIRC a PCR test can be used for other things as well as can diagnostic sticks https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/notice/...
Edited by J210 on Tuesday 28th June 16:31
johnboy1975 said:
vixen1700 said:
Yet again loads of people saying the only ones going down with it at the moment are the jabbed. Reading that a lot.
Statistically that would be likely (as 90% plus are jabbed)What we need is a RCT - 1000 jabbed 18-24 year olds, and 1000 unjabbed. Previous infections might well screw the data though, although both groups should by and large have at least one infection behind them. Suspect it would come down to how recently, and with what variant. But it would be "interesting" if the jabbed plus prior infected were catching it more often than the unjabbed plus prior infected.
I'm 10 months since I had covid and would be interesting to know when I might be due a reinfection or if vaccinations are causing quicker reinfections.
There was a scientist on the radio who was saying they weren't expecting a summer wave as they usually occur when it gets colder and people are more indoors.
cliffe_mafia said:
I agree, more studies are definitely needed. I've never had the flu but did/do some people catch it every year?
I'm 10 months since I had covid and would be interesting to know when I might be due a reinfection or if vaccinations are causing quicker reinfections.
There was a scientist on the radio who was saying they weren't expecting a summer wave as they usually occur when it gets colder and people are more indoors.
My (and my wife’s) covid was March ‘20, Nov 21, March 22. I'm 10 months since I had covid and would be interesting to know when I might be due a reinfection or if vaccinations are causing quicker reinfections.
There was a scientist on the radio who was saying they weren't expecting a summer wave as they usually occur when it gets colder and people are more indoors.
Apart from the first time where it was flu-like but not as severe, we wouldn’t have known unless we’d tested. It was like an allergy rather than a cold. Only testing due to wife’s job where she is surrounded by covid patients. It was amusing that she was well enough to work the second and third time but had to stay at home, even though she worked exclusively with covid patients anyway.
johnboy1975 said:
Thoughts on doubling the dose? A Good Thing?
No, I have posted before that my mate in Spain was double dosed (the J&J vaccine) but also had caught covid just before he was jabbed. was was hospitalised for weeks with pneumonia, off work for months and will probably have IBS for about 3 years due to internal damage. therefore i think double doses could be dangerous to adopt across the board. Carl_Manchester said:
johnboy1975 said:
Thoughts on doubling the dose? A Good Thing?
No, I have posted before that my mate in Spain was double dosed (the J&J vaccine) but also had caught covid just before he was jabbed. was was hospitalised for weeks with pneumonia, off work for months and will probably have IBS for about 3 years due to internal damage. therefore i think double doses could be dangerous to adopt across the board. It's not working- so we have to do it harder. You see?
Carl_Manchester said:
I think we will end up with Moderna v2 booster and the AZ v2 Booster for winter, i can't see me choosing the pfizer one again.
You mean the AZ one which several countries stopped using due to side effects and the Moderna one which may be very similar to Pfizer……….tannhauser said:
Why on earth would you have any?!
This. I will never fathom the intellectual gymnastics involved in having one of these “vaccines” now. No matter how old or sick you are. First time around I will understand the fear and the lack of need to “wait and see”, but now, there is literally no data out there at all that supports anyone going near one of these, in fact it’s the opposite. Terms of reference for the covid enquired announced
https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/uk-covid-19-inqu...
https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/uk-covid-19-inqu...
said:
Covid-19 Inquiry Terms of Reference
The Inquiry will examine, consider and report on preparations and the response to the
pandemic in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, up to and including the
Inquiry’s formal setting-up date, 28 June 2022.
In carrying out its work, the Inquiry will consider reserved and devolved matters across the
United Kingdom, as necessary, but will seek to minimise duplication of investigation,
evidence gathering and reporting with any other public inquiry established by the devolved
governments. To achieve this, the Inquiry will set out publicly how it intends to minimise
duplication, and will liaise with any such inquiry before it investigates any matter which is
also within that inquiry’s scope.
In meeting its aims, the Inquiry will:
a) consider any disparities evident in the impact of the pandemic on different categories
of people, including, but not limited to, those relating to protected characteristics
under the Equality Act 2010 and equality categories under the Northern Ireland Act
1998;
b) listen to and consider carefully the experiences of bereaved families and others who
have suffered hardship or loss as a result of the pandemic. Although the Inquiry will
not consider in detail individual cases of harm or death, listening to these accounts
will inform its understanding of the impact of the pandemic and the response, and of
the lessons to be learned;
c) highlight where lessons identified from preparedness and the response to the
pandemic may be applicable to other civil emergencies;
d) have reasonable regard to relevant international comparisons; and
e) produce its reports (including interim reports) and any recommendations in a timely
manner.
The aims of the Inquiry are to:
1. Examine the COVID-19 response and the impact of the pandemic in England, Wales,
Scotland and Northern Ireland, and produce a factual narrative account, including:
a) The public health response across the whole of the UK, including
i) preparedness and resilience;
ii) how decisions were made, communicated, recorded, and implemented;
iii) decision-making between the governments of the UK;
iv) the roles of, and collaboration between, central government, devolved
administrations, regional and local authorities, and the voluntary and community sector
v) the availability and use of data, research and expert evidence;
vi) legislative and regulatory control and enforcement;
vii) shielding and the protection of the clinically vulnerable;
viii) the use of lockdowns and other ‘non-pharmaceutical’ interventions such as
social distancing and the use of face coverings;
ix) testing and contact tracing, and isolation;
x) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the population, including but
not limited to those who were harmed significantly by the pandemic;
xi) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the bereaved, including
post-bereavement support;
xii) the impact on health and care sector workers and other key workers;
xiii) the impact on children and young people, including health, wellbeing and
social care;
xiv) education and early years provision;
xv) the closure and reopening of the hospitality, retail, sport and leisure, and travel
and tourism sectors, places of worship, and cultural institutions;
xvi) housing and homelessness;
xvii) safeguarding and support for victims of domestic abuse;
xviii) prisons and other places of detention;
xix) the justice system;
xx) immigration and asylum;
xxi) travel and borders; and
xxii) the safeguarding of public funds and management of financial risk.
b) The response of the health and care sector across the UK, including:
i) preparedness, initial capacity and the ability to increase capacity, and
resilience;
ii) initial contact with official healthcare advice services such as 111 and 999;
iii) the role of primary care settings such as General Practice;
iv) the management of the pandemic in hospitals, including infection prevention
and control, triage, critical care capacity, the discharge of patients, the use of
‘Do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation’ (DNACPR) decisions, the
approach to palliative care, workforce testing, changes to inspections, and the
impact on staff and staffing levels;
v) the management of the pandemic in care homes and other care settings,
including infection prevention and control, the transfer of residents to or from
homes, treatment and care of residents, restrictions on visiting, workforce
testing and changes to inspections;
vi) care in the home, including by unpaid carers;
vii) antenatal and postnatal care;
viii) the procurement and distribution of key equipment and supplies, including
PPE and ventilators;
ix) the development, delivery and impact of therapeutics and vaccines;
x) the consequences of the pandemic on provision for non-COVID related
conditions and needs; and
xi) provision for those experiencing long-COVID.
c) The economic response to the pandemic and its impact, including governmental
interventions by way of:
i) support for businesses, jobs and the self-employed, including the Coronavirus
Job Retention Scheme, the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme, loans
schemes, business rates relief and grants;
ii) additional funding for relevant public services;
iii) additional funding for the voluntary and community sector; and
iv) benefits and sick pay, and support for vulnerable people.
2. Identify the lessons to be learned from the above, to inform preparations for future
pandemics across the UK.
The Inquiry will examine, consider and report on preparations and the response to the
pandemic in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, up to and including the
Inquiry’s formal setting-up date, 28 June 2022.
In carrying out its work, the Inquiry will consider reserved and devolved matters across the
United Kingdom, as necessary, but will seek to minimise duplication of investigation,
evidence gathering and reporting with any other public inquiry established by the devolved
governments. To achieve this, the Inquiry will set out publicly how it intends to minimise
duplication, and will liaise with any such inquiry before it investigates any matter which is
also within that inquiry’s scope.
In meeting its aims, the Inquiry will:
a) consider any disparities evident in the impact of the pandemic on different categories
of people, including, but not limited to, those relating to protected characteristics
under the Equality Act 2010 and equality categories under the Northern Ireland Act
1998;
b) listen to and consider carefully the experiences of bereaved families and others who
have suffered hardship or loss as a result of the pandemic. Although the Inquiry will
not consider in detail individual cases of harm or death, listening to these accounts
will inform its understanding of the impact of the pandemic and the response, and of
the lessons to be learned;
c) highlight where lessons identified from preparedness and the response to the
pandemic may be applicable to other civil emergencies;
d) have reasonable regard to relevant international comparisons; and
e) produce its reports (including interim reports) and any recommendations in a timely
manner.
The aims of the Inquiry are to:
1. Examine the COVID-19 response and the impact of the pandemic in England, Wales,
Scotland and Northern Ireland, and produce a factual narrative account, including:
a) The public health response across the whole of the UK, including
i) preparedness and resilience;
ii) how decisions were made, communicated, recorded, and implemented;
iii) decision-making between the governments of the UK;
iv) the roles of, and collaboration between, central government, devolved
administrations, regional and local authorities, and the voluntary and community sector
v) the availability and use of data, research and expert evidence;
vi) legislative and regulatory control and enforcement;
vii) shielding and the protection of the clinically vulnerable;
viii) the use of lockdowns and other ‘non-pharmaceutical’ interventions such as
social distancing and the use of face coverings;
ix) testing and contact tracing, and isolation;
x) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the population, including but
not limited to those who were harmed significantly by the pandemic;
xi) the impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the bereaved, including
post-bereavement support;
xii) the impact on health and care sector workers and other key workers;
xiii) the impact on children and young people, including health, wellbeing and
social care;
xiv) education and early years provision;
xv) the closure and reopening of the hospitality, retail, sport and leisure, and travel
and tourism sectors, places of worship, and cultural institutions;
xvi) housing and homelessness;
xvii) safeguarding and support for victims of domestic abuse;
xviii) prisons and other places of detention;
xix) the justice system;
xx) immigration and asylum;
xxi) travel and borders; and
xxii) the safeguarding of public funds and management of financial risk.
b) The response of the health and care sector across the UK, including:
i) preparedness, initial capacity and the ability to increase capacity, and
resilience;
ii) initial contact with official healthcare advice services such as 111 and 999;
iii) the role of primary care settings such as General Practice;
iv) the management of the pandemic in hospitals, including infection prevention
and control, triage, critical care capacity, the discharge of patients, the use of
‘Do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation’ (DNACPR) decisions, the
approach to palliative care, workforce testing, changes to inspections, and the
impact on staff and staffing levels;
v) the management of the pandemic in care homes and other care settings,
including infection prevention and control, the transfer of residents to or from
homes, treatment and care of residents, restrictions on visiting, workforce
testing and changes to inspections;
vi) care in the home, including by unpaid carers;
vii) antenatal and postnatal care;
viii) the procurement and distribution of key equipment and supplies, including
PPE and ventilators;
ix) the development, delivery and impact of therapeutics and vaccines;
x) the consequences of the pandemic on provision for non-COVID related
conditions and needs; and
xi) provision for those experiencing long-COVID.
c) The economic response to the pandemic and its impact, including governmental
interventions by way of:
i) support for businesses, jobs and the self-employed, including the Coronavirus
Job Retention Scheme, the Self-Employment Income Support Scheme, loans
schemes, business rates relief and grants;
ii) additional funding for relevant public services;
iii) additional funding for the voluntary and community sector; and
iv) benefits and sick pay, and support for vulnerable people.
2. Identify the lessons to be learned from the above, to inform preparations for future
pandemics across the UK.
jameswills said:
tannhauser said:
Why on earth would you have any?!
This. I will never fathom the intellectual gymnastics involved in having one of these “vaccines” now. No matter how old or sick you are. First time around I will understand the fear and the lack of need to “wait and see”, but now, there is literally no data out there at all that supports anyone going near one of these, in fact it’s the opposite. 
even my parents, both mid 80s, have said enough is enough.garyhun said:
jameswills said:
tannhauser said:
Why on earth would you have any?!
This. I will never fathom the intellectual gymnastics involved in having one of these “vaccines” now. No matter how old or sick you are. First time around I will understand the fear and the lack of need to “wait and see”, but now, there is literally no data out there at all that supports anyone going near one of these, in fact it’s the opposite. even my parents, both mid 80s, have said enough is enough.jameswills said:
Same with mine aged 70 odd end of last year. Just hope the fear ramping doesn’t start them off again, but it’s their choice, I’ll only give advice if asked. And for that I’m quite angry at our government, they’ve committed some horrible sins the past 2 years. I hope it comes down on them in years to come.
Unlikely, we've moved on to a new crisis now, amazing how quickly people forgive and forget. I'm still staggered that people are still sucked in by it and are even considering what vaccine they will take this year. jameswills said:
It is reported to cost £130m. That’s 10x more than the illegal Iraq war enquiry.
This is just another money washing exercise and will just make lawyers and politicians richer than last year and maybe one fall guy. And we will repeat again in another 5 years.
Indeed - the lawyers will make a fortune and at the end of it the conclusion will be that “the government did everything the could in the circumstances and whilst it was regrettable that mistakes were made, lessons have been learnt. We are confident that it could never happen again” This is just another money washing exercise and will just make lawyers and politicians richer than last year and maybe one fall guy. And we will repeat again in another 5 years.
There will be no named fall guys.
johnboy1975 said:
Terms of reference for the covid enquired announced
https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/uk-covid-19-inqu...
Well at first glance that seems like a comprehensive list, although I will look at it in more detail tomorrow.https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/uk-covid-19-inqu...
I'm hopeful that the inquiry will prove useful, although I doubt it will single out anyone for severe criticism, and I imagine it'll drag on for ages.
jameswills said:
tannhauser said:
Why on earth would you have any?!
This. I will never fathom the intellectual gymnastics involved in having one of these “vaccines” now. No matter how old or sick you are. First time around I will understand the fear and the lack of need to “wait and see”, but now, there is literally no data out there at all that supports anyone going near one of these, in fact it’s the opposite. 'From May 30, 2022 to June 5, 2022, unvaccinated people were 5.2 times more likely to get COVID-19 than people who received their booster dose.'
'From May 30, 2022 to June 5, 2022, unvaccinated people were 8.3 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than people who received their booster dose.'
'From May 23, 2022 to May 29, 2022, unvaccinated people were 8.3 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than people who received their booster dose.'
Rollin said:
jameswills said:
tannhauser said:
Why on earth would you have any?!
This. I will never fathom the intellectual gymnastics involved in having one of these “vaccines” now. No matter how old or sick you are. First time around I will understand the fear and the lack of need to “wait and see”, but now, there is literally no data out there at all that supports anyone going near one of these, in fact it’s the opposite. 'From May 30, 2022 to June 5, 2022, unvaccinated people were 5.2 times more likely to get COVID-19 than people who received their booster dose.'
'From May 30, 2022 to June 5, 2022, unvaccinated people were 8.3 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than people who received their booster dose.'
'From May 23, 2022 to May 29, 2022, unvaccinated people were 8.3 times more likely to die from COVID-19 than people who received their booster dose.'
This doesn't match the UK data for your average 40 year old!
Maybe if you are 90.............................
UK also shows significant majority of infections were in vaccinated people!
Natural immunity seems to be the best potentially in conjunction with a single dose of vaccine.
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