Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

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Discussion

Jimmm

2,500 posts

182 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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BikeBikeBIke said:
If I had a rouble for every Russian Nuclear threat I'd be able to buy several penny sweets.
That's unfair. I reckon I'd have enough to get a spare key cut for my nuclear bunker.

Cheib

23,110 posts

174 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Byker28i said:
liner33 said:
myvision said:
How much money have Putin and the oligarchs stolen from Russia?
I guess we'll never actually know.
It started way before Putin, a lot of it was down to this chap

Difficult to trace until it pops up so we probably only know a small part of it.

There's the money pumped into trumps Condo's, the investigation and fines handed out to Deutsche Bank for russian money laundering, the money that filtered through Turkish banks and of course into Cyprus (Moscow on the Med), then of course around $2bn of UK property, especially in London.

Opposition leader Nemtsov claimed that between 2004 and 2007 over $60bn was transferred from Gazprom's funds to Putin's cronies alone, then not forgetting the investigation by the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, nicknamed "Russian Laundromat" that claimed between 2011 and 2014, 19 Russian banks laundered $20.8bn (£15.6bn) to 5,140 companies in 96 countries.
https://www.occrp.org/en/laundromat/the-russian-la...

Then you've the US blocking Promsvyazbank and Vnesheconombank this year for money laundering
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormie...

and of course the Panama Papers
https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/...

A lot of the US 2014 sanctions were about targetting the Oligarchs and Putins foreign money stashed away, so they couldn't get at it, hence their push for trump and trump trying to get sanctions dropped for the first year or so...
I've seen it speculated Putin is worth $200 bil and that a lot of the money the Oligarch's control is his.



Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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vonuber said:
God knows what he went through in the first couple of days.
How he made the decision to stay and send his wife and kids away, that's a choice I hope I never have to make.
When this is over he will be feted the (free) world over. He and his fighters are an example to us all - I am in awe.

Whoozit

3,577 posts

268 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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vonuber said:
TheJimi said:
You can really see the stress on Zelensky's face, imo, buy equally, he's handling this absolutely brilliantly.
God knows what he went through in the first couple of days.
How he made the decision to stay and send his wife and kids away, that's a choice I hope I never have to make.
While I wouldn't wish his position on anyone, I happen to believe several years as a jobbing actor has been perfect training for the role. High stress, everyone trying to shoot you down, no idea on longevity, no idea where the next paycheck comes from.

BikeBikeBIke

7,837 posts

114 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Russian collaborators don't like living under Russian Rule....

https://youtu.be/82baHYxzJSI

speedy_thrills

7,760 posts

242 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Welshbeef said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18566192/russia-thre...

Sorry for red top media link - but the threat and message is crystal clear.
Stop listening to the Russian government, the Russian government constructs messages in such a way that they will get published by major new agencies in the OECD. They are using the nuclear word to get headline attention. To them media is just an informational environment to be manipulated, their propoganda in no way betrays their intentions.

Russia is threatening to nuke most NATO countries on a weekly basis at this point - and many that are not in NATO yet as well for good measure. If we accommodated them based on these threats we may as well give Russia half of Europe.

Edit to add: The game with nukes is such that if any country ever used one it would be the end of that country existing. You lose, immediately. They are strictly a deterrent.

Edited by speedy_thrills on Saturday 14th May 18:35

BikeBikeBIke

7,837 posts

114 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
speedy_thrills said:
Stop listening to the Russian government, the Russian government constructs messages in such a way that they will get published by major new agencies in the OECD. They are using the nuclear word to get headline attention. To them media is just an informational environment to be manipulated, their propoganda in no way betrays their intentions.
Good point. *Anything* Russia say publicly is nothing more than an attempt to get the public to behave/think in a certain way. We can't deduce anything from it at all, the sole purpose is manipulation.

vonuber

17,868 posts

164 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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speedy_thrills said:
Russia is threatening to nuke most NATO countries on a weekly basis at this point - and many that are not in NATO yet as well for good measure. If we accommodated them based on these threats we may as well give Russia half of Europe.
Sometimes it feels like a few posters on here think that's an acceptable outcome.

TheJimi

24,859 posts

242 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
vonuber said:
TheJimi said:
You can really see the stress on Zelensky's face, imo, buy equally, he's handling this absolutely brilliantly.
God knows what he went through in the first couple of days.
How he made the decision to stay and send his wife and kids away, that's a choice I hope I never have to make.
"I need ammunition, not a ride" - a defining quote, in my opinion.

This is a repost, but for anyone who hasn't read it, the TIME article is brilliant, and quite eye opening.

- https://time.com/6171277/volodymyr-zelensky-interv...



Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Just seen this absolutely brilliant photo on Al Jazeera - epitomises these people.



They can’t lose.

FiF

43,957 posts

250 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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This will be doing wonders for troop morale and support back in Russia.

Russia 'refusing' to take bodies of dead soldiers as it tries to hide scale of Ukraine losses

article said:
Russia is reportedly refusing to take bodies of its soldiers killed in fighting in Ukraine, with corpses piling up in refrigerated train cars outside the Ukrainian capital.

Col Volodymyr Lyamzin, Ukraine’s chief civil-military liaison officer, said several hundred bodies have been collected from the battlefield in the Kyiv and Chernihiv region and brought to a railyard outside the Ukrainian capital.

They are being kept on a train until the Russian government agrees to take them.

...

There are several trains like that in other Ukrainian regions that are keeping more bodies of Russian soldiers, bringing the overall number to thousands, Col Lyamzin said.
Edited to fix quote numptiness

Edited by FiF on Saturday 14th May 20:27

stongle

5,910 posts

161 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
vonuber said:
speedy_thrills said:
Russia is threatening to nuke most NATO countries on a weekly basis at this point - and many that are not in NATO yet as well for good measure. If we accommodated them based on these threats we may as well give Russia half of Europe.
Sometimes it feels like a few posters on here think that's an acceptable outcome.
It's mainly for internal (Russian) consumption. The regime relies on creating a bigger threat than Putin and his cronies.

Someone posted an excellent article on MAD recently, worth a read (apologies for not naming the poster who did).

Even if we glibly laugh off the threat, it is 100% being taken seriously by govts as despite the low probability (and its low), the loss is total... MAD doctrine might be an excellent example of prisoners dilemma, but more recent thinking says its perceptual.

The Ukranians and Zelensky are absolutely owed a debt of gratitude from EVERY western nation. They are paying in blood to alter a global balance of power against Putin. It's why comments from VW CEO and those wedded to Russian gas are increasingly disgraceful.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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BikeBikeBIke said:
Yeah, plenty there that we recognize today.

I'd completely forgotten Gordon Brown....

Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Saturday 14th May 17:17
I haven't, the stole our pensions.

Huff

3,140 posts

190 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Dog Star said:
vonuber said:
God knows what he went through in the first couple of days.
How he made the decision to stay and send his wife and kids away, that's a choice I hope I never have to make.
When this is over he will be feted the (free) world over. He and his fighters are an example to us all - I am in awe.
This.

Cometh the hour, cometh the Man.

hidetheelephants

23,731 posts

192 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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Byker28i said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
As a former Sapper, this is a well argued and accurate analysis. Even in the largest military operation, there is only so much bridging capability. It uses a lot of specialist, hard to replace people and a lot of specialist, hard to replace kit. If you lose it, odds are you're not getting it back on the life of that operation
Thanks, I read that this morning, good to have a second source confirm the reasoning.
Lack of air superiority a factor?
I get the impression it was mostly or entirely artillery fire by Ukraine to attack the crossing.

andy_s

19,397 posts

258 months

Tartan Pixie

2,207 posts

146 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
Dog Star said:
vonuber said:
God knows what he went through in the first couple of days.
How he made the decision to stay and send his wife and kids away, that's a choice I hope I never have to make.
When this is over he will be feted the (free) world over. He and his fighters are an example to us all - I am in awe.
There's even a term for it now hehe - How 'Ukraine-washing' became the new gambit for embattled European politicians: https://www.euronews.com/2022/05/05/how-ukraine-wa...

I think my favourite cynical quip was from a Norwegian youtuber - "Politicians are lining up outside Zelensky's office like hookers at the Moulin Rouge."

I do worry that the pedestal the world is putting him on means it's going to hurt if he falls off. It will be near impossible for anyone to live up to Zelensky's reputation in the medium to long term, especially if he remains as a politician in one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in Europe.

Tony Starks

2,088 posts

211 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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rigga said:
J4CKO said:
Funny how they haven’t made a direct threat to the US, well I haven’t seen one.
That's not how bully's operate, easier to pick on the smaller ones, because to pick on one of equal, or bigger stance, would immediately show shortcomings.

Turns out, picking on Ukraine has done exactly that too.

Poor to be Putin right now, really screwed up massively.
One thing I'm really surprised about is the lack of people being given Russian tea

Tartan Pixie

2,207 posts

146 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
quotequote all
andy_s said:
Crikey. Kudos to the Ukrainians for staying cool under such pressure.

pingu393

7,709 posts

204 months

Saturday 14th May 2022
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FourWheelDrift said:
J4CKO said:
Well, same as us I guess, but was more thinking about their president and media repeatedly going on about nuking other nuclear powers.
Do they really sit there thinking that's a good idea, that there would be nothing sent by return ?
Putin : "I'm going to nuke them" [presses button] Click.....click......click, click, click "It's not working!"
General : "Sir, we have to wait for the modem to connect, but it appears the line is engaged"
Putin : "LYUDMILA GET OFF THE PHONE I'M TRYING TO NUKE SOMEONE!"
More likely "Ludmilla, is that fax for me?"