Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2
Discussion
Have to admit, as a father of three, my heart sank watching the news reports of children’s injuries in a hospital so far. I don’t know how this will all play out, but I have a wish that Putin ends up in a special form of hell where he inherits a conscience and gets to witness the impact of what he’s done ad infinitum. May he enjoy his ego and his big yacht until that point
If the troops are giving up the fight, it might make the genreals have a bloody good think and join them
Like several on here have said, it is more the old people who were brought up in thr Soviet style possibly agree with Putin, those with sons in the Army and are getting feedback from them may start to waiver, BUT i think it will be the under 30s who could swing it. They have seen the other side of life and i dont think they want to go back to the old way under Putin, or see yheir country reduced to a wasteland if he does go postal
All we can do is hope that there will be enough sane people near him and his cronies that can get them all together.. What they will do with them i know not, but a change(hopefully) could come soon.
Like several on here have said, it is more the old people who were brought up in thr Soviet style possibly agree with Putin, those with sons in the Army and are getting feedback from them may start to waiver, BUT i think it will be the under 30s who could swing it. They have seen the other side of life and i dont think they want to go back to the old way under Putin, or see yheir country reduced to a wasteland if he does go postal
All we can do is hope that there will be enough sane people near him and his cronies that can get them all together.. What they will do with them i know not, but a change(hopefully) could come soon.
Wildcat45 said:
I keep reading about Telegraph. Is it an Eastern European version of WhatsApp or Twitter?
Telegram https://telegram.org/Like Signal but less good.
Spidersleg said:
another phrase I keep seeing is "room with no windows" anyone like to explain that one? Getting shot through a window? Falling out a window ?
Putin's rivals tend to have a habit of dying by falling out of windows. Suggestion is someone may kill him albeit not necessarily in that way. FB post from a guy in the Ukrainian armed forces:
someone on FB said:
"Expectations of Russians: Ukraine will ask for help from the West
Reality of Russians: Ukraine will ask for help from the West in exporting their bodies
You can sort of see why it's not going so well for the Russians.Reality of Russians: Ukraine will ask for help from the West in exporting their bodies
Gullwings said:
xu5 said:
What of Ukrainians application to EU? Surely the EU would be mad not to want easy trade with Ukrainians resources? Or would they not want the 'agro'?
Possible bargaining chip?Pull away your forces or we'll sign Ukraine in
Perhaps it's time for the west to show some aggression for once
gotoPzero said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
+1So a long way from conscripts. Belarussian Paratroopers are on their way as well.
Another edit, intelligence suggests around 400 Tier One have blended into Kiev on the hunt for Zelensky.
Edited by Portofino on Monday 28th February 22:28
For what it’s worth I think people are over thinking this.
It was fairly clear what his objectives were (in as much as past events seem to have verified)
1) grab Donbas
2) knock out Kiev and install ‘puppet’
3) get ‘peace’ accord signed off.
A lot of pre incursion chatter noted that 200k troops were not enough.
But he seemed intent on moving first and employing shock & awe.
What has happened to curve ball that is that resistance is stronger and he hasn’t been able to encircle Kiev to knock it out. He seems to have achieved Donbas objectives.
The Ukrainians are receiving steady material which is bleeding him but the biggest problem is that set of demolished bridges leading to Kiev with that 17km of heavy artillery and no way through.
Until and if he gets that in order the central gov isn’t going anywhere.
Given time he may be able to: that’s what engineers get paid the big bucks to sort.
But in the meantime he’s mired down and things like the additional planes make his job harder.
It becomes a waiting game. I doubt there is anyone within the Kremlin with the balls to get rid of him.
So we’re at a bit of an impasse.
But time is not on his side. A guess from AEP in the Telegraph suggested that he probably lost 2 3rds of the $600bn war chest as part of the sanctions. He’s burning through a likely $15-20bn a day keeping this going.
So he probably has around a week left before things become tricky financially.
My guess is eventually they will get the artillery in place. Bombardment will begin. It will look terrible and he won’t have the time to properly do a Grozny on it.
He’ll agree some kind of agreed peace with UKr gov around Crimea/Donbas and neutrality (in as much as EU/NATO is put on hold in name only).
Then he walks it all back trying to try and hold onto some of his self respect.
It was fairly clear what his objectives were (in as much as past events seem to have verified)
1) grab Donbas
2) knock out Kiev and install ‘puppet’
3) get ‘peace’ accord signed off.
A lot of pre incursion chatter noted that 200k troops were not enough.
But he seemed intent on moving first and employing shock & awe.
What has happened to curve ball that is that resistance is stronger and he hasn’t been able to encircle Kiev to knock it out. He seems to have achieved Donbas objectives.
The Ukrainians are receiving steady material which is bleeding him but the biggest problem is that set of demolished bridges leading to Kiev with that 17km of heavy artillery and no way through.
Until and if he gets that in order the central gov isn’t going anywhere.
Given time he may be able to: that’s what engineers get paid the big bucks to sort.
But in the meantime he’s mired down and things like the additional planes make his job harder.
It becomes a waiting game. I doubt there is anyone within the Kremlin with the balls to get rid of him.
So we’re at a bit of an impasse.
But time is not on his side. A guess from AEP in the Telegraph suggested that he probably lost 2 3rds of the $600bn war chest as part of the sanctions. He’s burning through a likely $15-20bn a day keeping this going.
So he probably has around a week left before things become tricky financially.
My guess is eventually they will get the artillery in place. Bombardment will begin. It will look terrible and he won’t have the time to properly do a Grozny on it.
He’ll agree some kind of agreed peace with UKr gov around Crimea/Donbas and neutrality (in as much as EU/NATO is put on hold in name only).
Then he walks it all back trying to try and hold onto some of his self respect.
Edited by Ridgemont on Monday 28th February 22:35
king arthur said:
FB post from a guy in the Ukrainian armed forces:
someone on FB said:
"Expectations of Russians: Ukraine will ask for help from the West
Reality of Russians: Ukraine will ask for help from the West in exporting their bodies
You can sort of see why it's not going so well for the Russians.Reality of Russians: Ukraine will ask for help from the West in exporting their bodies
I saw a video of an old Ukrainian woman walking up to a Russian soldier and telling him (among other less polite things) to put sunflower seeds in his pockets so they would grow where his body falls. They seem like tough people!
Putin will be thinking about his own future too. If he loses, he’ll be toppled from power and either put on trial at The Hague or executed. Worth ratcheting up the weapons of war for?
I also heard a Russian Army expert on the radio this evening who said that the Russians don’t view Nuclear weapons like we do. Tactical Nukes are just missiles with a bigger bang.
While he can’t use these against an insurgence or civilians, he could use these against Military assets.
I just can’t see him accepting defeat, I think he’ll go kicking and screaming and opening the gates of hell.
He has nothing to lose....the World is Against him. There is absolutely no future for him unless he stays in power which can only happen if he wins.
We should hope he is somehow toppled sooner rather than later.
I also heard a Russian Army expert on the radio this evening who said that the Russians don’t view Nuclear weapons like we do. Tactical Nukes are just missiles with a bigger bang.
While he can’t use these against an insurgence or civilians, he could use these against Military assets.
I just can’t see him accepting defeat, I think he’ll go kicking and screaming and opening the gates of hell.
He has nothing to lose....the World is Against him. There is absolutely no future for him unless he stays in power which can only happen if he wins.
We should hope he is somehow toppled sooner rather than later.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff