Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has UK passport returned, MP says.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe has UK passport returned, MP says.

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andyA700

2,688 posts

37 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
quotequote all
irc said:
biggbn said:
How predictable, another PH thread that essentially says 'it was her own fault, she was asking for it'.
No. I am asking why as an Iranian citizen in Iran she expected the UK govt to help her? The rules are clear. A dual nationality citizen is not a UK citizen when in the other country she holds nationality for.

There is presumably a good reason the UK has this rule.

The Iranian govt are the villains here. It was nothing to do with the UK govt and I don't think they should pay ransoms for foreign citizens which she was while in Iran.
They were not paying a ransom, they paid the Iranian governmkent money which was due to them.

andyA700

2,688 posts

37 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
quotequote all
biggbn said:
irc said:
biggbn said:
How predictable, another PH thread that essentially says 'it was her own fault, she was asking for it'.
No. I am asking why as an Iranian citizen in Iran she expected the UK govt to help her? The rules are clear. A dual nationality citizen is not a UK citizen when in the other country she holds nationality for.

There is presumably a good reason the UK has this rule.

The Iranian govt are the villains here. It was nothing to do with the UK govt and I don't think they should pay ransoms for foreign citizens which she was while in Iran.
Did she 'expect' to be rescued? Or merely expect that high ranking government official's thoughtless words should not negatively impact on her situation?

This is a difficult, sensitive case and I think it is much more nuanced than simply saying she has dual nationality so did not deserve the help of our country. Jeremy Hunt, amongst others, certainly seem to feel she deserved the help, and it shoukd have happened sooner.
One of the very few times I have been impressed by Mr Hunt.

biggbn

23,316 posts

220 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
quotequote all
andyA700 said:
biggbn said:
irc said:
biggbn said:
How predictable, another PH thread that essentially says 'it was her own fault, she was asking for it'.
No. I am asking why as an Iranian citizen in Iran she expected the UK govt to help her? The rules are clear. A dual nationality citizen is not a UK citizen when in the other country she holds nationality for.

There is presumably a good reason the UK has this rule.

The Iranian govt are the villains here. It was nothing to do with the UK govt and I don't think they should pay ransoms for foreign citizens which she was while in Iran.
Did she 'expect' to be rescued? Or merely expect that high ranking government official's thoughtless words should not negatively impact on her situation?

This is a difficult, sensitive case and I think it is much more nuanced than simply saying she has dual nationality so did not deserve the help of our country. Jeremy Hunt, amongst others, certainly seem to feel she deserved the help, and it shoukd have happened sooner.
One of the very few times I have been impressed by Mr Hunt.
Agreed!

rjfp1962

Original Poster:

7,724 posts

73 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
quotequote all
biggbn said:
andyA700 said:
biggbn said:
irc said:
biggbn said:
How predictable, another PH thread that essentially says 'it was her own fault, she was asking for it'.
No. I am asking why as an Iranian citizen in Iran she expected the UK govt to help her? The rules are clear. A dual nationality citizen is not a UK citizen when in the other country she holds nationality for.

There is presumably a good reason the UK has this rule.

The Iranian govt are the villains here. It was nothing to do with the UK govt and I don't think they should pay ransoms for foreign citizens which she was while in Iran.
Did she 'expect' to be rescued? Or merely expect that high ranking government official's thoughtless words should not negatively impact on her situation?

This is a difficult, sensitive case and I think it is much more nuanced than simply saying she has dual nationality so did not deserve the help of our country. Jeremy Hunt, amongst others, certainly seem to feel she deserved the help, and it shoukd have happened sooner.
One of the very few times I have been impressed by Mr Hunt.
Agreed!
Might not be the last we hear from Mr Hunt - I think he may well challenge again for leadership at some point, but that's another story..!

Murph7355

37,711 posts

256 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
quotequote all
andyA700 said:
Murph7355 said:
andyA700 said:
Totally agree, the political infighting between various departments (civil service and military), which went on since 2017, was why the debt wasn't paid and that was why NR was held for so long......
Oh do behave.

What about 1979 to 2017?

The debt, and the way the Iranian govt operated were known for decades. NR will have been more than fully aware of these things (more than), and yet chose to travel there as an Iranian citizen. But hey, it's all govt's fault from 2017....
You simply do not have a clue about the thousands (tens of thousands) of Iranian born, dual passport holders from many European countries, who travel to Iran and back every year without a problem. You also do not have a clue about how the Iranian revolution started, who was behind it in 1978/79, who facilitated the installation of a regime run by "friendly ayatollahs".
Iran is a lovely place to visit, the people are great, the food wonderful, the historical sites awesome.
For anyone wishing to visit the country, a word to the wise. Make sure you don't have any baggage which will come back to haunt you. Make sure that you don't attend any demonstrations against the Iranian government in the UK, or worse still, give an interview to UK press saying less than pleasant things about the Iranian government.
You have no clue what I have no clue about.

The money owed was owed for much, much longer than 2017 - so if political infighting had prevented its repayment from 2017, what had caused it in the preceding 30+ years? Why single out 2017 to now?

FWIW I agree that we should not have been holding it, for a whole host of reasons. FWIW I believe the West's meddling in the Middle East has been a massive source of the issues in that region for well over 100yrs., and this country has played a large part in that, to our discredit.

Who cares how many people go back and forth to there every year. It doesn't matter. 3 people were being held on spurious charges. 3 people were released at the same time despite comments being made by a politician that "did not help" about just one of them. Pure logic dictates that the comments made bugger all difference to anything. Repaying the money owed did.

Murph7355

37,711 posts

256 months

Sunday 15th May 2022
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Did she 'expect' to be rescued? Or merely expect that high ranking government official's thoughtless words should not negatively impact on her situation?

This is a difficult, sensitive case and I think it is much more nuanced than simply saying she has dual nationality so did not deserve the help of our country. Jeremy Hunt, amongst others, certainly seem to feel she deserved the help, and it shoukd have happened sooner.
The words didn't.

"Deserving" of help? The rules are clear. I'm cool with the govt trying to help. I'm definitely cool with the money being repaid. But you travel on the basis she travelled under, and you need to assume you're on your own. "Victim blaming"? Sometimes it's perfectly valid, and not the heinous crime some on here portray it as. "Personal accountability" is, perhaps, a slightly less emotional term. And might make people think harder before they do stuff.

rjfp1962

Original Poster:

7,724 posts

73 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
For anyone interested. Nazanin is going to be interviewed on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour - Tuesday 24th May with Emma Barnett.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017khl

rxe

6,700 posts

103 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
And she’s now complaining that the nasty Iranians made her sign a confession before getting on the ‘plane to leave, and the UK government official did nothing to stop it.

Let me see, would she prefer:

Option 1: sign the Iranian piece of toilet paper, get on the damn ‘plane and don’t come back

Option 2: don’t sign it, don’t get on the ‘plane, return to prison

Can’t win with some people.

Randy Winkman

16,131 posts

189 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
rxe said:
And she’s now complaining that the nasty Iranians made her sign a confession before getting on the ‘plane to leave, and the UK government official did nothing to stop it.

Let me see, would she prefer:

Option 1: sign the Iranian piece of toilet paper, get on the damn ‘plane and don’t come back

Option 2: don’t sign it, don’t get on the ‘plane, return to prison

Can’t win with some people.
She did Option 1 and is now telling us about it. Where's the problem?

rxe

6,700 posts

103 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
She did Option 1 and is now telling us about it. Where's the problem?
She’s blaming the UK government representative ….

pequod

8,997 posts

138 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
rxe said:
Randy Winkman said:
She did Option 1 and is now telling us about it. Where's the problem?
She’s blaming the UK government representative ….
Not prepared to accept any responsibility for her incarceration, I note.

What she thinks all this will achieve, other than attempting to embarrass the incumbent Govt, I can only imagine, and I have long suspected her motives are less than genuine and are designed to agitate for recognition of her political viewpoint, no more nor less.

Sadly the BBC are giving her more airtime, but I'm not surprised.

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

117 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
She is being interviewed on telly tonight. I hope the interviewer asks her:-

Why did you go back?
Given that you did go back, why didn't you keep your mouth shut and your head down?
Why is no single part of any of this, your own fault?

CoolHands

18,630 posts

195 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
I love the way she insinuated the British official should have somehow prevented this. Yeah luv, don’t sign it and we’ll see you in 10 years.

Talk about ingrate.

rjfp1962

Original Poster:

7,724 posts

73 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
How unlucky could Nazanin be in having the incompetent Johnson, first as Foreign Secretary, then Prime Minister during her incarceration?

I'm amazed she ever got home at all.........!

Ian Geary

4,487 posts

192 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
I saw this story in the BBC today.

It was written in a way that criticised the UK government for "allowing" it to happen.

It just showed complete naivety on the part of Nazanin, and on the BBC fort parroting this criticism of the representative with her.

Every grown up knows the Iranian govt are corrupt - not your Westminster bit of birthday cake and nominating a friend for a contract corrupt, but properly corrupt with no accountability, kidnapping, false imprisonment and torture.

But now, the BBC would much rather get a dig in at the Tories.

As I said, shows her either as naive, or deliberately stirring.

lord trumpton

7,392 posts

126 months

Monday 23rd May 2022
quotequote all
Aside from the 'detail' of her incarceration and just purely based on the persona she exudes; to me she comes across as hard work, hard to like and a bit stroppy to put it loosely.

A complete rasclaat to be more precise.



Edited by lord trumpton on Monday 23 May 21:41

andyA700

2,688 posts

37 months

Tuesday 24th May 2022
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
rxe said:
And she’s now complaining that the nasty Iranians made her sign a confession before getting on the ‘plane to leave, and the UK government official did nothing to stop it.

Let me see, would she prefer:

Option 1: sign the Iranian piece of toilet paper, get on the damn ‘plane and don’t come back

Option 2: don’t sign it, don’t get on the ‘plane, return to prison

Can’t win with some people.
She did Option 1 and is now telling us about it. Where's the problem?
I don't think she should have made this little documentary with the BBC, because she has burned all her bridges, she can never return there. I have relatives in Iran, I have been there a few times and enjoyed the experience thoroughly. My wife is Iranian, we have been together for over thirty years, but she keeps her head down, is not political in the least, because she has relatives there and wants to visit them.
I have visited the US twice with my wife and will not be going back again, because of the way they treated her. You never hear about the dozens of Iranian citizens being detained in US prisons on trumped up charges. The last time we went to the US, we spent five hours in Atlanta (having flown from Los Angeles), waiting for a customs officer to verify that we were leaving the country - surely the fact that we had been forced to get off a plane that was bound for the UK, should have given them a clue that we were leaving the country?

ED209

5,746 posts

244 months

Tuesday 24th May 2022
quotequote all
She bores me with her tales, same as that Nick Dunn fella who had a similar tale of woe.

Murph7355

37,711 posts

256 months

Tuesday 24th May 2022
quotequote all
rjfp1962 said:
How unlucky could Nazanin be in having the incompetent Johnson, first as Foreign Secretary, then Prime Minister during her incarceration?

I'm amazed she ever got home at all.........!
She could have been a damn sight luckier had she not travelled to Iran as an Iranian citizen and put herself in the situation in the first place.

Only one thing impacted her stay at the behest of the Iranian govt...payment of monies owed. Which PM sanctioned that (plenty to chose from - Thatcher? Major? Blair? Brown? Cameron? May? Johnson?).

Eric Mc

122,024 posts

265 months

Tuesday 24th May 2022
quotequote all
What situation did she put herself in?

She had every right to go to Iran.

As far as she was aware, there was no reason not to. She had no beef with the regime and as far as she was aware, they had no beef with her. British people travel to and from Iran - it's not banned.

How was she to know that the UK government were reneging on a legally binding contract?