Bill's boating paradox...
Discussion
To save distracting the shoestring sailor thread...
We're near Swanage and figure it's mad living here and not having a boat.
We're after something to take kids & kayaks/paddle boards further afield to access more interesting areas. For example, we can get to Old Harry's rocks from Swanage or Studland but it's a slog with a pair of double kayaks and towing one more. Kimmeridge is fine, if a bit limited but Lulworth is a slog getting everything to the water, Worbarrow is a mission and a half!
And we'd like to tow a ringo, and even a skier... Want a cabin (cos girls...) And he icing on the cake is that SWMBO doesn't want noisy!
Plus we're both tight and I'm wary of ending up with a money pit.
Experience wise we do a fair bit of sea kayaking, I have done a sailing day skipper ticket but not used it and holidays as a kid involved clueless use of small boats in Cornwall a fair bit. I plan to do PB2 and my VHF ticket this year.
We're near Swanage and figure it's mad living here and not having a boat.
We're after something to take kids & kayaks/paddle boards further afield to access more interesting areas. For example, we can get to Old Harry's rocks from Swanage or Studland but it's a slog with a pair of double kayaks and towing one more. Kimmeridge is fine, if a bit limited but Lulworth is a slog getting everything to the water, Worbarrow is a mission and a half!
And we'd like to tow a ringo, and even a skier... Want a cabin (cos girls...) And he icing on the cake is that SWMBO doesn't want noisy!
Plus we're both tight and I'm wary of ending up with a money pit.
Experience wise we do a fair bit of sea kayaking, I have done a sailing day skipper ticket but not used it and holidays as a kid involved clueless use of small boats in Cornwall a fair bit. I plan to do PB2 and my VHF ticket this year.
Assuming you want a bit of performance and can run 4 up, I'd say something in the 4-5M size range with a 50-90hp on the back.
You could get away with 20hp on a 4M, but 4 up it'll start to be a bit painful getting up on the plane. More than 90hp can start to get hairy.
If you want to waterski, more is better. Running 3 up & then trying to pull up a waterskier needs a bit of power.
You could do worse than a dory with a 50hp. Wet and a bit of a hard ride, but stable and solid platforms that are generally cheap.
Ribs are good but always cost more.
Something with a cuddy up front - a fisher style thing. Handy for keeping out of the rain, but I've always figured if it's windy & rainy, it's a good day to stay at home anyway.
PB2 well worth doing. Yes, with your skills you could probably get into something and be safe enough in it - but I did a quick access PB2 last year (I wanted the certificate to be able to hire stuff). Been in boats all my life, including a bit of powerboat racing, yachting, rescue boat duty and so forth. I still learnt a couple of bits on the PB2 - and reminded me of some bits I had forgotten. And it was a nice day out. You'll have lots of people locally that can do it, but if you want I'd be happy to recommend the guy in southampton I did mine with - he was the kind of guys who doesn't just teach you to the standard of the course, he teaches you to be better than the course requires.
You could get away with 20hp on a 4M, but 4 up it'll start to be a bit painful getting up on the plane. More than 90hp can start to get hairy.
If you want to waterski, more is better. Running 3 up & then trying to pull up a waterskier needs a bit of power.
You could do worse than a dory with a 50hp. Wet and a bit of a hard ride, but stable and solid platforms that are generally cheap.
Ribs are good but always cost more.
Something with a cuddy up front - a fisher style thing. Handy for keeping out of the rain, but I've always figured if it's windy & rainy, it's a good day to stay at home anyway.
PB2 well worth doing. Yes, with your skills you could probably get into something and be safe enough in it - but I did a quick access PB2 last year (I wanted the certificate to be able to hire stuff). Been in boats all my life, including a bit of powerboat racing, yachting, rescue boat duty and so forth. I still learnt a couple of bits on the PB2 - and reminded me of some bits I had forgotten. And it was a nice day out. You'll have lots of people locally that can do it, but if you want I'd be happy to recommend the guy in southampton I did mine with - he was the kind of guys who doesn't just teach you to the standard of the course, he teaches you to be better than the course requires.
Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 5th May 10:12
Probably best looking at boats with 4 stroke outboards.
2-stroke engines are noisy - at all speeds.
Friend of mine had a Benettau Flyer with a 90hp Honda 4-stroke. With our boats sat side by side with engine ticking over the only indication his engine was running was the tell-tale. Mine's a 135hp 2-stroke. If it's running you have to shout
Your toys requirements - ringo & skiing - indicate a planing hull.
What sort of budget are you looking at?
Bear in mind that leisure stuff has been going for silly (high) money since the start of the pandemic so you're likely to be paying over the odds.
Old boats & engines can be money pits esp if you can't DIY.
Random FAFB search. Wonder if something like this might be worth considering - bear in mind this one has no trailer so you would need to factor one into the cost & do you have a vehicle capable of towing?
www.findafishingboat.com/jeanneau-merry-fisher-530...
2-stroke engines are noisy - at all speeds.
Friend of mine had a Benettau Flyer with a 90hp Honda 4-stroke. With our boats sat side by side with engine ticking over the only indication his engine was running was the tell-tale. Mine's a 135hp 2-stroke. If it's running you have to shout
Your toys requirements - ringo & skiing - indicate a planing hull.
What sort of budget are you looking at?
Bear in mind that leisure stuff has been going for silly (high) money since the start of the pandemic so you're likely to be paying over the odds.
Old boats & engines can be money pits esp if you can't DIY.
Random FAFB search. Wonder if something like this might be worth considering - bear in mind this one has no trailer so you would need to factor one into the cost & do you have a vehicle capable of towing?
www.findafishingboat.com/jeanneau-merry-fisher-530...
Edited by paintman on Thursday 5th May 10:55
Arnold Cunningham said:
You could do worse than a dory with a 50hp. Wet and a bit of a hard ride, but stable and solid platforms that are generally cheap.
Ribs are good but always cost more.
Mine's a 17' Dell Quay (Shetland) Dory Sportsman. Open boat with fold up cuddy. The cuddy will give some protection but it's open at the rear so no privacy if your wife needs to answer a call!Ribs are good but always cost more.
Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 5th May 10:12
Being a cathedral hull it's very stable & has lots of deck space, but running into any wave at speed is a very hard ride & wet due to spray. From what you've said I can pretty much guarantee your wife won't like one.
The bigger ones are very popular & even when I bought mine some years ago were snapped up as soon as the ads appeared.
You can get a whole variety of cathedral hulls with & without cabins/cuddies but they all tend to have the same downside.
Smaller ribs are generally low, open & wet. Plus potential issues with the tubes. Huge fun towing toys though
Edited by paintman on Thursday 5th May 10:44
A proper petrolheads outboard.
That howl!! The only thing that sounds better than a 2 stroke merc V6 on a boat is 2 of them
Anyway, as an all round compromise to get the OP going, I reckon my thoughts are a decent start point. Full of compromises, yes, but IMVHO a good balance between price, performance, stability, safety, ease of maintenance, running costs and so forth.
That howl!! The only thing that sounds better than a 2 stroke merc V6 on a boat is 2 of them
Anyway, as an all round compromise to get the OP going, I reckon my thoughts are a decent start point. Full of compromises, yes, but IMVHO a good balance between price, performance, stability, safety, ease of maintenance, running costs and so forth.
Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 5th May 12:13
Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 5th May 12:13
paintman said:
2-stroke engines are noisy - at all speeds.
With the exception of ETEC's. Had a 175 on my last boat and it was an absolute peach - never intrusive, just a muted howl behind you. No need to raise your voice in any way to talk with passengers even at WOT.Start one up out of the water though - what an absolutely glorious sound. 2.6 litres of V6 two stroke magnificence:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcRIfAx3D5E - apologies in advance for the lack of mechanical sympathy on display!
To the OP - personally, I'd sack off the idea of a cabin if you're on a budget and get a 4.5 - 5m RIB with a 60 - 75hp outboard. Comes with compromises, but compromises I'd prefer to live with when compared to those of a budget cabin boat.
Do we know what the budget is? Given the OP was considering a Shetland Seahawk for £2k I don't think a RIB will be within budget plus it doesn't have a cuddy which I believe was a requirement to satisfy the ladies?
Having said that, for where he wants to use it plus towing toys, a large RIB would be ideal!
Having said that, for where he wants to use it plus towing toys, a large RIB would be ideal!
FWIW I've been eyeing up this kind of thing: https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats/shetland-sealark-1...
Budget is tough. We have savings but are tight, so it's a question of what do I need to spend to get something that's not completely s
t. And then I need to sell it to the sensible half of the family.
I think the cabin is non-negotiable, wife and daughter (and to a degree older son) all feel the cold. I know there's a good clothing argument, but they'd want both!
The Merry Fisher linked does look ideal, smarter than I was thinking if anything. Had use of a Dory before and wondered if that would work.
And a SIB with 20hp outboard. We were utter numpties in hindsight.
Budget is tough. We have savings but are tight, so it's a question of what do I need to spend to get something that's not completely s
t. And then I need to sell it to the sensible half of the family.I think the cabin is non-negotiable, wife and daughter (and to a degree older son) all feel the cold. I know there's a good clothing argument, but they'd want both!
The Merry Fisher linked does look ideal, smarter than I was thinking if anything. Had use of a Dory before and wondered if that would work.
And a SIB with 20hp outboard. We were utter numpties in hindsight.
Bill said:
FWIW I've been eyeing up this kind of thing: https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats/shetland-sealark-1...
Budget is tough. We have savings but are tight, so it's a question of what do I need to spend to get something that's not completely st. And then I need to sell it to the sensible half of the family.
I think the cabin is non-negotiable, wife and daughter (and to a degree older son) all feel the cold. I know there's a good clothing argument, but they'd want both!
The Merry Fisher linked does look ideal, smarter than I was thinking if anything. Had use of a Dory before and wondered if that would work.
And a SIB with 20hp outboard. We were utter numpties in hindsight.
Trouble with that kind of thing is that it's exactly what the fishing lot tend to favour - so I reckon will have been "well used" to say the least.Budget is tough. We have savings but are tight, so it's a question of what do I need to spend to get something that's not completely s
t. And then I need to sell it to the sensible half of the family.I think the cabin is non-negotiable, wife and daughter (and to a degree older son) all feel the cold. I know there's a good clothing argument, but they'd want both!
The Merry Fisher linked does look ideal, smarter than I was thinking if anything. Had use of a Dory before and wondered if that would work.
And a SIB with 20hp outboard. We were utter numpties in hindsight.
That looks like it could be an ex RNLI outboard off one of the old Atlantic 21's too? The yammie's are good, but even good motor worn it is still worn out...and that looks like it could be - so you'd need to approach it eyes very wide open.
I realise it's well above your initial budget (we are well known on here for helping you with the man-maths!) but a Merry Fisher such as this one would be a better bet and they have a good reputation for a reason...
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
Edited by pequod on Thursday 5th May 14:29
Bill said:
FWIW I've been eyeing up this kind of thing: https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats/shetland-sealark-1...
Budget is tough. We have savings but are tight, so it's a question of what do I need to spend to get something that's not completely st. And then I need to sell it to the sensible half of the family.
Remember that boats, once past a certain age, don't depreciate. So apart from running costs, if you spend £5K you'll get £5K back when selling. Or to put it another way, your £5K is still there, just in a boat not a bank. More important is Value. A good value £10K boat is a much safer bet than a £5K poor value one.Budget is tough. We have savings but are tight, so it's a question of what do I need to spend to get something that's not completely s
t. And then I need to sell it to the sensible half of the family.I can't imagine your wife and kids would be very happy crammed into the tiny basic cabin of that Shetland. At the least have a WC and some cooking facilities.
Simpo Two said:
I can't imagine your wife and kids would be very happy crammed into the tiny basic cabin of that Shetland. At the least have a WC and some cooking facilities.
Good points all, particularly this bit. We've been muttering about this for a year or so and she's still not massively convinced. I suspect the sticking point is going to be not spending enough so they (and by extension, we...) are all miserable. 
Food for thought. Think we'll have to rent a RIB and make a decision.
pequod said:
I realise it's well above your initial budget (we are well known on here for helping you with the man-maths!) but a Merry Fisher such as this one would be a better bet and they have a good reputation for a reason...
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
Any of the Jeanneau/Ocqueteau/Bayliner Trophy type fishing boats are a good shout - not so good for tow sports, but an excellent all rounder at the price. I would say that for a 6m'ish hull for a boat of that type, I'd want at the very least a 90 and preferably close towards a 150hp outboard hanging off the back, but I guess that's swinging a long way away from Bill's budget.https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
The only other thing I'd say for that style/size of boat is that trailering them very quickly becomes a pain in the arse. A day out becomes a proper mission and then you'll want to look at a swinging mooring or a marina berth - that can take the shine off ownership because you start feeling pressured (from a financial point of view) into having to use it because you've got those overheads.
I still maintain that if all you want to do is arse around on the water now and again, explore your local area, wakeboard/tow a few toys, the ideal choice is a small RIB. Easy to store, easy to tow and launch - just make sure you go out on nice days! And has been said, the purchase price of any boat isn't really that important (provided it's affordable), it's the cost of ownership that you have to factor into your buying decision.
pequod said:
I realise it's well above your initial budget (we are well known on here for helping you with the man-maths!) but a Merry Fisher such as this one would be a better bet and they have a good reputation for a reason...
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
Out of interest why have you suggested a Marlin version? These are more dedicated to fishing so less practical/more focused. https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
Edited by pequod on Thursday 5th May 14:29
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff