RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
Scolmore said:
legzr1 said:
Get CR off the table.
Negotiate terms, wages, redundancies.
The threat of CR is not welcomed, not needed, not helping.
Why seek to remove one of the best tools for clearing out dead wood and turning an organisation around? Is this just standard union protectionism or is there a hidden good reason?Negotiate terms, wages, redundancies.
The threat of CR is not welcomed, not needed, not helping.
There's a whole lot of local railways which would now make excellent e-bike roads & not cost billions a year to operate. Perhaps its time for a Beeching 2
Cobnapint said:
Unbelievable ignorance and unwarranted cheek in one single post.
The railway is more or less out there on it's own as far as safety procedures and rules go. It is the way it is because it NEEDS to be the way it is.
Without being in it and understanding how it works (like I have for over 42 years, just retired) then I'd probably have found myself posting like you too.
Quite.The railway is more or less out there on it's own as far as safety procedures and rules go. It is the way it is because it NEEDS to be the way it is.
Without being in it and understanding how it works (like I have for over 42 years, just retired) then I'd probably have found myself posting like you too.
Fairly recently I’ve had younger chaps in my company apply for and pass the exams for mainline driving.
Some have a decade of experience of shunting in yards, wagons maintenance and generally a working life spent on the line.
One or two come along with a certain arrogance built up from climbing between wagons, coupling locos and turning the odd point. Far more real life experience than some of the more vocal characters in this thread. Infinitely more experience than the most vocal.
Then they sit their rules and traction exams.
Once that sinks in they start getting a taste of the real railway. Not the foolish, stuck in the 19th century b
ks often portrayed in this thread.The first time on a large TIII, KW”s of mobile lighting structures, millions of £ worth of equipment and a large orange army of workers doing their thing at 3am in the pissing snow is quite the eye opener.
But I’m sure Vasco could teach the PICOP, ES or COSS quite a lot based on his transferrable skills from his version of the ‘real world’.
Sheer arrogance mixed with a dose of being unable or unwilling to admit there’s a chance his opinion is based on the square root of f
k all and definitely not based on railway safety.Still, it wins an internet battle or something.
Enjoy the retirement.
I have a feeling you already are
Vasco said:
Thank goodness that at least one person understands CR.
And there you go again.Most understand CR.
The issue here (and one you just can’t get your head around and refuse to budge on) is the necessity IN THIS DISPUTE to use it.
It’s almost as if you actually know that but insist on your current path.
CrgT16 said:
Well it does seem the railways need to change actually.
The current doesn’t work and is unsustainable. Perhaps with even less usage we will have to cut the service and stations further with unavoidable job losses.
This has happened in the past and it might be needed now at the cost of rail workers but also communities.
The inability to adapt to 21st century practices and build in flexibility on the workforce will ultimately lead to its downsizing. There isn’t one problem it’s not alone the workers fault or the management or the Government. Perhaps everyone involved has a role to make the railways what they are now. The idea that increasing the wages will fix all that is a fallacy. Yes pay people a fair wage but there needs a revision of practices and how the all thing works. It’s not by paying Joe bloggs an extra £100-200 pounds a month that will make the rail run perfect!
Ok, it looks like this needs repeating.The current doesn’t work and is unsustainable. Perhaps with even less usage we will have to cut the service and stations further with unavoidable job losses.
This has happened in the past and it might be needed now at the cost of rail workers but also communities.
The inability to adapt to 21st century practices and build in flexibility on the workforce will ultimately lead to its downsizing. There isn’t one problem it’s not alone the workers fault or the management or the Government. Perhaps everyone involved has a role to make the railways what they are now. The idea that increasing the wages will fix all that is a fallacy. Yes pay people a fair wage but there needs a revision of practices and how the all thing works. It’s not by paying Joe bloggs an extra £100-200 pounds a month that will make the rail run perfect!
Yet again…
The railways are constantly changing. Always have done. Always will do. Rules and regulations change. The staff abiding by them and the management making them also change. Old practises abolished, new traction and wagons and passenger stock with new railway, new procedures to build, run and maintain it.
If your overall view of the railway is of antiquated practises then I suggest anything further you add comes from a position of ignorance to the network, it’s procedures and processes and, ultimately, flawed logic.
This dispute isn’t just about money.
The past few pages haven’t even touched on it.
legzr1 said:
And there you go again.
Most understand CR.
The issue here (and one you just can’t get your head around and refuse to budge on) is the necessity IN THIS DISPUTE to use it.
It’s almost as if you actually know that but insist on your current path.
Why would CR be connected to a dispute in any way? CR should be used as part of the normal toolset of any organisation - it should always be available as an option.Most understand CR.
The issue here (and one you just can’t get your head around and refuse to budge on) is the necessity IN THIS DISPUTE to use it.
It’s almost as if you actually know that but insist on your current path.
The union would do far better to negotiate enhanced redundancy terms, rather than trying to block anyone being made redundant.
Scolmore said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Agree with that, at least for now. I was thinking of say Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds. Once I've reached New Street, why bother running trains to Bourneville.OK the metro is under construction out as far as Fiveways and Edgbaston, but further than that? Routes are already used by services from further afield, ie Bristol and beyond.
FiF said:
Errrm, but what about folks who are coming in from such as Worcester, Droitwich, Bromsgrove, Redditch, who might not want to go into New St and back out again but alight at University for, errr you know, the University or QE hospital, or alight at Five Ways, Selly Oak or maybe even Bourneville.
OK the metro is under construction out as far as Fiveways and Edgbaston, but further than that? Routes are already used by services from further afield, ie Bristol and beyond.
I had no idea that line went anywhere other than Longbridge (I think). If it goes out to Worcester then bad example. OK the metro is under construction out as far as Fiveways and Edgbaston, but further than that? Routes are already used by services from further afield, ie Bristol and beyond.
rigga said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Unfortunately a death at my old depot in 2019 , driver ignored safety protocol rushing to catch a taxi , and depot driver ignored rules for coupling up units.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-5...
legzr1 said:
Cobnapint said:
Unbelievable ignorance and unwarranted cheek in one single post.
The railway is more or less out there on it's own as far as safety procedures and rules go. It is the way it is because it NEEDS to be the way it is.
Without being in it and understanding how it works (like I have for over 42 years, just retired) then I'd probably have found myself posting like you too.
Quite.The railway is more or less out there on it's own as far as safety procedures and rules go. It is the way it is because it NEEDS to be the way it is.
Without being in it and understanding how it works (like I have for over 42 years, just retired) then I'd probably have found myself posting like you too.
Fairly recently I’ve had younger chaps in my company apply for and pass the exams for mainline driving.
Some have a decade of experience of shunting in yards, wagons maintenance and generally a working life spent on the line.
One or two come along with a certain arrogance built up from climbing between wagons, coupling locos and turning the odd point. Far more real life experience than some of the more vocal characters in this thread. Infinitely more experience than the most vocal.
Then they sit their rules and traction exams.
Once that sinks in they start getting a taste of the real railway. Not the foolish, stuck in the 19th century b
ks often portrayed in this thread.The first time on a large TIII, KW”s of mobile lighting structures, millions of £ worth of equipment and a large orange army of workers doing their thing at 3am in the pissing snow is quite the eye opener.
But I’m sure Vasco could teach the PICOP, ES or COSS quite a lot based on his transferrable skills from his version of the ‘real world’.
Sheer arrogance mixed with a dose of being unable or unwilling to admit there’s a chance his opinion is based on the square root of f
k all and definitely not based on railway safety.Still, it wins an internet battle or something.
Enjoy the retirement.
I have a feeling you already are
Nobody is talking about the skills required within rail, oil, nuclear power airplanes or tanks - all jobs have numerous tasks unique to that organisation.
I had hoped that you might have at least understood that - your waffle above confirms that you are still not understanding.
Forty years in a business gives anybody a massive amount of knowledge of what to do, how to do it (safely) and how best to train others. There's never been any question about that. It's the fact that you clearly have no understanding of how other businesses operate that is revealed im many of your comments.
I hope you find that talking to like minded rail staff on here will reassure you that you must be 100% right at all times - even if many other people are just amused at your views on CR etc
Bye.....
Vasco said:
The most telling point is that you clearly still don't understand!
Nobody is talking about the skills required within rail, oil, nuclear power airplanes or tanks - all jobs have numerous tasks unique to that organisation.
I had hoped that you might have at least understood that - your waffle above confirms that you are still not understanding.
Forty years in a business gives anybody a massive amount of knowledge of what to do, how to do it (safely) and how best to train others. There's never been any question about that. It's the fact that you clearly have no understanding of how other businesses operate that is revealed im many of your comments.
I hope you find that talking to like minded rail staff on here will reassure you that you must be 100% right at all times - even if many other people are just amused at your views on CR etc
Bye.....
I don’t have 40 years in the business.Nobody is talking about the skills required within rail, oil, nuclear power airplanes or tanks - all jobs have numerous tasks unique to that organisation.
I had hoped that you might have at least understood that - your waffle above confirms that you are still not understanding.
Forty years in a business gives anybody a massive amount of knowledge of what to do, how to do it (safely) and how best to train others. There's never been any question about that. It's the fact that you clearly have no understanding of how other businesses operate that is revealed im many of your comments.
I hope you find that talking to like minded rail staff on here will reassure you that you must be 100% right at all times - even if many other people are just amused at your views on CR etc
Bye.....
Another assumption?
I have worked in places other than the railway, your version of ‘real life’
Another assumption?
You have zero, none, absolutely F all experience of this complicated industry employing hundreds of thousands and requiring all manner of trades and skills. But you insist you know better. From an obvious position of ignorance.
I enjoy talking to like-minded staff, especially those in different sectors. It’s good to get a feel of how they operate, the good and bad, a general overview if you like.
Compare and contrast with a random on a thread in a section of a motoring website with an obvious lack of railway knowledge especially the systems of safety.
I listen to those who ‘know’.
I try to educate those that don’t.
Hardly the echo chamber you ‘seem’ to be suggesting.
Away you go my friend. Keep laughing as you wait for the next ‘I love CR’ post to quote.Whilst it’s not actually adding any value I’m finding it quite entertaining
Perhaps I’ll see you on the Barristers thread or maybe the next thread wailing about NHS, BA,teachers,postmen etc etc.
legzr1 said:
Link to show where redundancies are being blocked please?
''Please lobby the government to demand that the rail companies must agree that there must be no compulsoryredundancies of rail workers,''
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/rail-disp...
Ouroboros said:
legzr1 said:
Link to show where redundancies are being blocked please?
''Please lobby the government to demand that the rail companies must agree that there must be no compulsoryredundancies of rail workers,''
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/rail-disp...
As I thought.
Ouroboros said:
legzr1 said:
Link to show where redundancies are being blocked please?
''Please lobby the government to demand that the rail companies must agree that there must be no compulsoryredundancies of rail workers,''
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/rail-disp...
I'm still not getting any proper answer to why the rail industry should be treated as a special case when others are subject to CR. All you ever get is that it would smooth negotiations - so, another bit of the usual blackmail tactics they're so keen on.
If any industry needed some CR it's quite likely to be the one that has somehow avoided it - for TWELVE years!
Incredible.
Vasco said:
I'm still not getting any proper answer to why the rail industry should be treated as a special case when others are subject to CR. All you ever get is that it would smooth negotiations - so, another bit of the usual blackmail tactics they're so keen on.
If any industry needed some CR it's quite likely to be the one that has somehow avoided it - for TWELVE years!
Incredible.
I can see costs for lines, signals etc being the same if passenger (pax) numbers drop off a cliff, as they have.
But there will be loads of jobs that will be dependent of pax numbers, and if numbers don't rebound, which it looks like this is a long term change, then you really can't expect to keep and save every job.
Least not forget 2 years of full pay whilst pax numbers have been lowest in recent history.
legzr1 said:
Quite.
Fairly recently I’ve had younger chaps in my company apply for and pass the exams for mainline driving.
Some have a decade of experience of shunting in yards, wagons maintenance and generally a working life spent on the line.
One or two come along with a certain arrogance built up from climbing between wagons, coupling locos and turning the odd point. Far more real life experience than some of the more vocal characters in this thread. Infinitely more experience than the most vocal.
Then they sit their rules and traction exams.
Once that sinks in they start getting a taste of the real railway. Not the foolish, stuck in the 19th century bks often portrayed in this thread.
The first time on a large TIII, KW”s of mobile lighting structures, millions of £ worth of equipment and a large orange army of workers doing their thing at 3am in the pissing snow is quite the eye opener.
But I’m sure Vasco could teach the PICOP, ES or COSS quite a lot based on his transferrable skills from his version of the ‘real world’.
Sheer arrogance mixed with a dose of being unable or unwilling to admit there’s a chance his opinion is based on the square root of fk all and definitely not based on railway safety.
Still, it wins an internet battle or something.
Enjoy the retirement.
I have a feeling you already are
You bet Fairly recently I’ve had younger chaps in my company apply for and pass the exams for mainline driving.
Some have a decade of experience of shunting in yards, wagons maintenance and generally a working life spent on the line.
One or two come along with a certain arrogance built up from climbing between wagons, coupling locos and turning the odd point. Far more real life experience than some of the more vocal characters in this thread. Infinitely more experience than the most vocal.
Then they sit their rules and traction exams.
Once that sinks in they start getting a taste of the real railway. Not the foolish, stuck in the 19th century b
ks often portrayed in this thread.The first time on a large TIII, KW”s of mobile lighting structures, millions of £ worth of equipment and a large orange army of workers doing their thing at 3am in the pissing snow is quite the eye opener.
But I’m sure Vasco could teach the PICOP, ES or COSS quite a lot based on his transferrable skills from his version of the ‘real world’.
Sheer arrogance mixed with a dose of being unable or unwilling to admit there’s a chance his opinion is based on the square root of f
k all and definitely not based on railway safety.Still, it wins an internet battle or something.
Enjoy the retirement.
I have a feeling you already are
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