RMT union vote for a national rail strike

RMT union vote for a national rail strike

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Discussion

rigga

8,727 posts

200 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
P5BNij said:
rigga said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Unfortunately a death at my old depot in 2019 , driver ignored safety protocol rushing to catch a taxi , and depot driver ignored rules for coupling up units.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-5...
A tragedy which was compounded by the fact that his wife was waiting for him in the car park.
And he was due to retire imminently..

And the driver of the train that crushed him knew him very well .

Shows that safety practices slip , and become the norm .... It all works until it doesn't.

Digga

40,201 posts

282 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
On a parallel topic, it seem now that both the Postal Workers and Fire wombles are now lining up industrial action.

Reading a book on the economy of Weimar Germany at the moment throws up some concerning similarities, with respect to both inflation and wage demands. (Fortunately, the French are not crucifying us for reparations or annexing large chunks of our industrial base.)

Ouroboros

2,371 posts

38 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
The tram drivers moaning about ''spy cameras'' that are very common place in haulage industry. it feels like anything that improves safety, is seen as infringing on their rights, why is that I wonder?

cirian75

4,245 posts

232 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Ouroboros said:
The tram drivers moaning about ''spy cameras'' that are very common place in haulage industry. it feels like anything that improves safety, is seen as infringing on their rights, why is that I wonder?
Cameras in high risk or high value are perfectly legal and not an infringement of rights, as long as setup by proper adult, not some jobsworth micro manger more interested in spying on the employee 24/7 rather than capturing the footage needed for proper safety observations and review.


legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Ouroboros said:
legzr1 said:
No mention of voluntary redundancies then?

As I thought.
Just said redundancies, as you know.
No, it ‘just said’ compulsory redundancies, as you know.

Your link, your quote from it.

I asked where were redundancies being blocked.
You didn’t answer because VR is not being blocked.

CR is not required in this dispute.

You and the other industry expert are free to continue to whine and moan about it all you like smile

Legacywr

12,016 posts

187 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
I’d like the government to win the dispute over CR issue.

egomeister

6,698 posts

262 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks for that, it was Germany where I had seen them run on the same lines. I guess it was a section built and operated to heavy spec but utilised by the tram network.

You are bang on about the network not being fit for purpose. I have family on the outskirts of Birmingham where there is only one train line running through. If that was a city in Germany, it would have a tram or U-bahn connection to the city and most likely to other areas surrounding the city.

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
cirian75 said:
Cameras in high risk or high value are perfectly legal and not an infringement of rights, as long as setup by proper adult, not some jobsworth micro manger more interested in spying on the employee 24/7 rather than capturing the footage needed for proper safety observations and review.
I’m wondering what his point is?

What has in-cab cameras on a tram got to do with track workers working on the line?

Another throwaway irrelevance it seems.

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Legacywr said:
I’d like the government to win the dispute over CR issue.
Why?

Digga

40,201 posts

282 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
egomeister said:
Thanks for that, it was Germany where I had seen them run on the same lines. I guess it was a section built and operated to heavy spec but utilised by the tram network.

You are bang on about the network not being fit for purpose. I have family on the outskirts of Birmingham where there is only one train line running through. If that was a city in Germany, it would have a tram or U-bahn connection to the city and most likely to other areas surrounding the city.
Comes back to the abject, chronic lack of infrastructure investment in the UK in the last 30-40 years.

That plus, can you imagine getting the RMT members to share track with "those tram bds"?

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
egomeister said:
Thanks for that, it was Germany where I had seen them run on the same lines. I guess it was a section built and operated to heavy spec but utilised by the tram network.

You are bang on about the network not being fit for purpose. I have family on the outskirts of Birmingham where there is only one train line running through. If that was a city in Germany, it would have a tram or U-bahn connection to the city and most likely to other areas surrounding the city.
Hasn’t it already been stated that there would be no barrier to this in the UK if funding and investment matched that of other European countries with, what seems like, far better ‘connected’ transport systems?

Legacywr

12,016 posts

187 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
legzr1 said:
Legacywr said:
I’d like the government to win the dispute over CR issue.
Why?
Because sometimes CR is necessary. VR would work in a perfect scenario, but we don’t live in ideal world.

Ouroboros

2,371 posts

38 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
legzr1 said:
I’m wondering what his point is?

What has in-cab cameras on a tram got to do with track workers working on the line?

Another throwaway irrelevance it seems.
safety measure brought in, that the unionised workers moaned about , that actually improves safety for all......

Edited by Ouroboros on Tuesday 28th June 15:56

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Digga said:
Comes back to the abject, chronic lack of infrastructure investment in the UK in the last 30-40 years.

That plus, can you imagine getting the RMT members to share track with "those tram bds"?
First point - agreed.

Second point - well, considering ‘those tram bds’ are RMT members and already share track with the ‘heavy’ boys I’m not sure if that hurdle exists wink

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Legacywr said:
Because sometimes CR is necessary. VR would work in a perfect scenario, but we don’t live in ideal world.
And sometimes it isn’t.

As in this case.
As in the past 12 years of negotiations between the parties actually ‘at war’ in this dispute (difference now is a political agenda and a very poor government actively provoking things).

VR has and continues to work in situations that aren’t ‘perfect’ too.

Not quite a binary choice…

cirian75

4,245 posts

232 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Legacywr said:
legzr1 said:
Legacywr said:
I’d like the government to win the dispute over CR issue.
Why?
Because sometimes CR is necessary. VR would work in a perfect scenario, but we don’t live in ideal world.
If they have asked for VR volunteers offering decent packages that would have gotten most if not all of the 2500.

Instead Network Rail did what they were told by Grant Shapps and picked a fight with the RMT.

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Ouroboros said:
safety measure brought in, that the unionised workers moaned about , that actually improves safety for all......

Edited by Ouroboros on Tuesday 28th June 15:56
But it wasn’t brought in, has nothing to do with this dispute and safety has been vastly improved, year on year , with many other safety features.

If this isn’t yet another grrr union non-point then what is it?

legzr1

3,843 posts

138 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
cirian75 said:
If they have asked for VR volunteers offering decent packages that would have gotten most if not all of the 2500.

Instead Network Rail did what they were told by Grant Shapps and picked a fight with the RMT.
Exactly.

smile

Vasco

16,475 posts

104 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
legzr1 said:
Legacywr said:
Because sometimes CR is necessary. VR would work in a perfect scenario, but we don’t live in ideal world.
And sometimes it isn’t.

As in this case.
As in the past 12 years of negotiations between the parties actually ‘at war’ in this dispute (difference now is a political agenda and a very poor government actively provoking things).

VR has and continues to work in situations that aren’t ‘perfect’ too.

Not quite a binary choice…
Please give a straight answer for once.

WHY is CR not necessary - when nobody has yet agreed to any revised T&Cs ?
(Please avoid your usual 'it just isn't' or 'everything would get sorted without it' typical response)

loafer123

15,404 posts

214 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
legzr1 said:
cirian75 said:
If they have asked for VR volunteers offering decent packages that would have gotten most if not all of the 2500.

Instead Network Rail did what they were told by Grant Shapps and picked a fight with the RMT.
Exactly.

smile
It is roles which are redundant.

If they made 2,500 ticket staff roles redundant and 2,500 cleaners applied for VR, you would still need to make 2,500 ticket office staff redundant.