RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Passenger numbers are still down 25% on pre-pandemic levels as the train companies are the most exposed to the new trend of WFH for at least part of the week. I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
The taxpayer has paid an additional £16bn to keep the trains running through the pandemic and now the workforce expect further payrises paid for by the taxpayer.
A declining industry with a militant workforce who expect constant strike threats to maintain their pay and conditions. That story didn't end well for British Leyland.
It strikes (haha) me that the RMT have an outdated militant streak running through it
- the idea they're clinging to "rights" they "earned" -basicically blackmail, because they can. Classy
- they announce strike action before even starting negotiations
The govt have a manifesto pledge about ensuring minimum services during strikes..the RMT are sailing close to the wind with this militant nonsense from the 70s, and they're going to get very little sympathy from the public if the govt push it through (unlike say the junior doctor debacle a few years ago)
Also, they seem to be dreaming about an 11% pay rise, no compulsory redundancy etc. Who on earth expects that? It's pie in the sky.
I'm in local govt, and we've had compulsory redundancies, teams shrink, work increase etc Ok we got 1.75% last year, and looking at perhaps about 4% for the coming year.
Anyone expecting 11% would be laughed out of the room.
It would be interesting if staff could do something about the waste.. I can't believe it's all top down - there will be bottom up waste too, where staff just CBA, "not my job" etc
- the idea they're clinging to "rights" they "earned" -basicically blackmail, because they can. Classy
- they announce strike action before even starting negotiations
The govt have a manifesto pledge about ensuring minimum services during strikes..the RMT are sailing close to the wind with this militant nonsense from the 70s, and they're going to get very little sympathy from the public if the govt push it through (unlike say the junior doctor debacle a few years ago)
Also, they seem to be dreaming about an 11% pay rise, no compulsory redundancy etc. Who on earth expects that? It's pie in the sky.
I'm in local govt, and we've had compulsory redundancies, teams shrink, work increase etc Ok we got 1.75% last year, and looking at perhaps about 4% for the coming year.
Anyone expecting 11% would be laughed out of the room.
It would be interesting if staff could do something about the waste.. I can't believe it's all top down - there will be bottom up waste too, where staff just CBA, "not my job" etc
JagLover said:
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Passenger numbers are still down 25% on pre-pandemic levels as the train companies are the most exposed to the new trend of WFH for at least part of the week. I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
The taxpayer has paid an additional 16bn to keep the trains running through the pandemic and now the workforce expect further payrises paid for by the taxpayer.
A declining industry with a militant workforce who expect constant strike threats to maintain their pay and conditions. That story didn't end well for British Leyland.
I think LL has spent too long inside the industry...............................
JagLover said:
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Passenger numbers are still down 25% on pre-pandemic levels as the train companies are the most exposed to the new trend of WFH for at least part of the week. I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
The taxpayer has paid an additional 16bn to keep the trains running through the pandemic and now the workforce expect further payrises paid for by the taxpayer.
A declining industry with a militant workforce who expect constant strike threats to maintain their pay and conditions. That story didn't end well for British Leyland.
When a workforce strike there is a single cause - Poor management. But yeah, blame the workers instead.
oyster said:
NuckyThompson said:
What you want them to do? Take a pay cut and allow the rail companies to make even greater profits?
The strike is the result not the root cause
Your point on profits of rail companies - I can’t find much info on what the RMT are asking for versus what the TOCs are offering. And also can’t recall the current revenue/profits of said TOCs at the moment.The strike is the result not the root cause
What numbers are you using to base your viewpoint on?
Genuinely interested.
sugerbear said:
Not sure the taxpayer has paid an additional 16bn. It's just more QE. So everyone pays it. You will notice tax has only rise to pay for social care (well the NHS actually).
When a workforce strike there is a single cause - Poor management. But yeah, blame the workers instead.
From what I gather they are asking forWhen a workforce strike there is a single cause - Poor management. But yeah, blame the workers instead.
11% pay rise
Job security
No redundancies
That isn’t possible to deliver. 11% pay rise means instant ticket price rise
You say poor management? We say changing dynamic - lower consumers period wFH
JagLover said:
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Passenger numbers are still down 25% on pre-pandemic levels as the train companies are the most exposed to the new trend of WFH for at least part of the week. I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
The taxpayer has paid an additional 16bn to keep the trains running through the pandemic and now the workforce expect further payrises paid for by the taxpayer.
A declining industry with a militant workforce who expect constant strike threats to maintain their pay and conditions. That story didn't end well for British Leyland.
The rail unions never help themselves by their apparent arrogance and 'bully boy' tactics to get their own way. If they ever considered other people and realised that most rail staff are already well paid it might be a start. However, the union simply say that other people are no concern of theirs and that their demands must be met or they'll hold the country to ransom (overall, for the country as a whole freight trains can be more essential than passenger trains).
The unions need to get rid of various outdated practices and accept revised T&Cs covering Sundays, rest day and overtime payments, ticket office automation etc etc.
Only then should a fair pay rise be considered.
Vasco said:
Well said.
The rail unions never help themselves by their apparent arrogance and 'bully boy' tactics to get their own way. If they ever considered other people and realised that most rail staff are already well paid it might be a start. However, the union simply say that other people are no concern of theirs and that their demands must be met or they'll hold the country to ransom (overall, for the country as a whole freight trains can be more essential than passenger trains).
The unions need to get rid of various outdated practices and accept revised T&Cs covering Sundays, rest day and overtime payments, ticket office automation etc etc.
Only then should a fair pay rise be considered.
Well to give up those valuable T&Cs need to be bought out. The rail unions never help themselves by their apparent arrogance and 'bully boy' tactics to get their own way. If they ever considered other people and realised that most rail staff are already well paid it might be a start. However, the union simply say that other people are no concern of theirs and that their demands must be met or they'll hold the country to ransom (overall, for the country as a whole freight trains can be more essential than passenger trains).
The unions need to get rid of various outdated practices and accept revised T&Cs covering Sundays, rest day and overtime payments, ticket office automation etc etc.
Only then should a fair pay rise be considered.
Let’s say for instance someone who now wouldn’t have a company car in that grade how to get them out of it you’d have to negotiate/offer the individual a fair compromise in increased salary.
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
See, if you do work for the rail, then I have no empathy for you. If you do not like your working conditions go find a new job, but wait, your job is so much easier than having to be accountable in the real world, that you would prefer to moan and groan and go on strike. Good work. I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Edited by Leicester Loyal on Wednesday 25th May 01:13
Edited by Leicester Loyal on Wednesday 25th May 01:15
Matthen said:
Maybe now is the time to call their bluff - tell em to walk if they don't like it, and see how many quit. Sort the mess out afterward - I'd gamble that the majority would stay exactly where they are.
If those workers -unions had any teeth they would threaten en masse to transfer their defined benefit pension out to their own SIPPS. Let’s see what happens then.
If we recall back in April the announcement of the ballot it can be noted that Mike Lynch, the RMT general secretary, released a statement.
First up was gloating how the action would cripple the country, second how money was the important factor and last on the list was passenger safety.
It's all about the priorities.
First up was gloating how the action would cripple the country, second how money was the important factor and last on the list was passenger safety.
It's all about the priorities.
RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said:
A national rail strike will bring the country to a standstill but our members’ livelihoods and passenger safety are our priorities
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/20/t...Welshbeef said:
sugerbear said:
Not sure the taxpayer has paid an additional 16bn. It's just more QE. So everyone pays it. You will notice tax has only rise to pay for social care (well the NHS actually).
When a workforce strike there is a single cause - Poor management. But yeah, blame the workers instead.
From what I gather they are asking forWhen a workforce strike there is a single cause - Poor management. But yeah, blame the workers instead.
11% pay rise
Job security
No redundancies
That isn’t possible to deliver. 11% pay rise means instant ticket price rise
You say poor management? We say changing dynamic - lower consumers period wFH
Does feel like those pro-strike don’t live in the real world.
Kwackersaki said:
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Genuine question, in what ways do they waste money? I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Edited by Leicester Loyal on Wednesday 25th May 01:13
Edited by Leicester Loyal on Wednesday 25th May 01:15
I work in manufacturing in the private sector and it always amazes me how much companies waste and how resistant people are to change to prevent it.
The consensus seems to be that railway staff shouldn’t be seeking a pay rise at the moment. We’re already entering the third straight year without a pay rise and inflation is at its highest level for decades. If not now, when?
Kwackersaki said:
Leicester Loyal said:
The payrise is the last thing on the agenda for me, it's more to do with changing of T&Cs, forcing us to do more nights, more weekends, trying to remove our enhancements, redundancies, making teams smaller from 3 men to 2. A lot of it is gonna compromise safety, whilst asking your staff to do more.
I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Genuine question, in what ways do they waste money? I also don't think we're expecting to get inflation or anywhere near 11%, reckon 5-6% is all we'll get and we'll accept that, but offering us no payrise, or a 1% payrise isn't gonna wash, when we've not had one since 2020. We see first hand the amount of money the railway wastes, yet rather than do something about that they'll pass the costs onto staff members, whilst spunking billions upon billions up the wall.
Some of the figures in the media are total bull btw, most of us earn a decent wage but it totally depends on your discipline and your T&Cs, a lot of us are either on the national average salary or on just above it, it's not all train drivers on 50k basic etc.
We'll get a lot of hate (as I probably will for this post), but the past generations fought for these rights and I hope we continue to do the same.
Gareth1974 said:
The consensus seems to be that railway staff shouldn’t be seeking a pay rise at the moment. We’re already entering the third straight year without a pay rise and inflation is at its highest level for decades. If not now, when?
When it becomes hard to recruit to fill vacancies? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff