Estate, 20k, ULEZ, not depressing
Discussion
I spend a lot of time in Surrey these days, and the threatened expansion of the ULEZ has put my 2010 E350CDI estate on notice. I am rather fond of the thing, it replaced an E320CDI of which I was also fond, but it has been an unreliable money pit.
I like it because it’s comfortable and quiet and refined and spacious and quick enough, but I mostly bought it and its predecessor because I had a great big German Shepherd Dog. He’s no longer with us, and unlikely to be replaced. I still want an estate, and it needs enough rear legroom for a couple of teenagers, but maybe don’t need the biggest one I can buy. Usage is maybe 20 or 30 suburban miles a week and then 520 miles of motorway once a month.
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
I’m a little nervous about whether further restrictions are coming on currently low emission compliant diesels.
I am loathe to spend a chunk upgrading the Merc to come away with something which isn’t much newer or lower mileage, or which feels like a big downgrade. I don’t generally spend as much as this on my practical car, I resent it, but prices are silly at the moment and I want something nice and reliable.
So. Don’t want another E class.
Don’t need something as big as an A6 or 5 series, though wouldn’t rule them out.
Six cylinder petrol cars - S4s and A6s with the same engine are old and leggy and don’t feel like good value. 335i touring likewise, and scarce. Not seeing much else. The odd 3.0T Volvo?
Passat boring.
Superb doesn’t appeal.
Hot hatchback derived estates too small, often front drive, usually turbo 4, and a bit juvenile.
Jag XF 3.0 not Euro6, and Euro6 XF estate engines nasty.
It’s looking like I should probably test drive the 335d (great, straight six, good to drive, quick, decent economy, but diesel, not future-proof?) or the C350e (petrol, performance good, economy good, emissions good, PHEV, comfortable, refined on electric power, but nasty four pot turbo, heavy, very complex, reliability concerns (including the same air suspension fault my car is about to wallet-rape me for).
Anything I’ve missed?
I like it because it’s comfortable and quiet and refined and spacious and quick enough, but I mostly bought it and its predecessor because I had a great big German Shepherd Dog. He’s no longer with us, and unlikely to be replaced. I still want an estate, and it needs enough rear legroom for a couple of teenagers, but maybe don’t need the biggest one I can buy. Usage is maybe 20 or 30 suburban miles a week and then 520 miles of motorway once a month.
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
I’m a little nervous about whether further restrictions are coming on currently low emission compliant diesels.
I am loathe to spend a chunk upgrading the Merc to come away with something which isn’t much newer or lower mileage, or which feels like a big downgrade. I don’t generally spend as much as this on my practical car, I resent it, but prices are silly at the moment and I want something nice and reliable.
So. Don’t want another E class.
Don’t need something as big as an A6 or 5 series, though wouldn’t rule them out.
Six cylinder petrol cars - S4s and A6s with the same engine are old and leggy and don’t feel like good value. 335i touring likewise, and scarce. Not seeing much else. The odd 3.0T Volvo?
Passat boring.
Superb doesn’t appeal.
Hot hatchback derived estates too small, often front drive, usually turbo 4, and a bit juvenile.
Jag XF 3.0 not Euro6, and Euro6 XF estate engines nasty.
It’s looking like I should probably test drive the 335d (great, straight six, good to drive, quick, decent economy, but diesel, not future-proof?) or the C350e (petrol, performance good, economy good, emissions good, PHEV, comfortable, refined on electric power, but nasty four pot turbo, heavy, very complex, reliability concerns (including the same air suspension fault my car is about to wallet-rape me for).
Anything I’ve missed?
Shiv_P said:
otolith said:
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
So you want an NA petrol 6 cylinder? I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
That's very narrowRealistically, I'm probably going to have to settle.
otolith said:
N/A or supercharged, six or more cylinders, yes, ideally. But people largely stopped buying those some time ago, and they no longer seem to depreciate worse than the diesel models. Things like the S4 and A6 3.0TFSI are older and higher mileage than I'd really like.
Realistically, I'm probably going to have to settle.
Sorry, I missed the budget in the title.Realistically, I'm probably going to have to settle.
You could get into an S4 B8.5 with some haggling and maybe a tiny increase in budget. I would recommend late 2014 and 2015 so that it's the CREC engine with MPI.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2022061768...
ninjag said:
Sorry, I missed the budget in the title.
You could get into an S4 B8.5 with some haggling and maybe a tiny increase in budget. I would recommend late 2014 and 2015 so that it's the CREC engine with MPI.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2022061768...
Yeah, have been looking at those. Without further budget creep (I was originally thinking of getting something for 10k-12k) they're 2014/2015 at best and 80k plus miles - the odd lower mileage, much older car. You could get into an S4 B8.5 with some haggling and maybe a tiny increase in budget. I would recommend late 2014 and 2015 so that it's the CREC engine with MPI.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2022061768...
The engine in the S4 is much more what I would like, but they don't look like great value for money compared to a 335D at similar mileage and three or four years newer or similar age and half the mileage - and which will have much lower running costs. That's really the dilemma - and this isn't really my fun car, I will still have the Elise, so there's a limit on how much added cost and risk I can take just for my subjective preferences.
otolith said:
I spend a lot of time in Surrey these days, and the threatened expansion of the ULEZ has put my 2010 E350CDI estate on notice. I am rather fond of the thing, it replaced an E320CDI of which I was also fond, but it has been an unreliable money pit.
I like it because it’s comfortable and quiet and refined and spacious and quick enough, but I mostly bought it and its predecessor because I had a great big German Shepherd Dog. He’s no longer with us, and unlikely to be replaced. I still want an estate, and it needs enough rear legroom for a couple of teenagers, but maybe don’t need the biggest one I can buy. Usage is maybe 20 or 30 suburban miles a week and then 520 miles of motorway once a month.
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
I’m a little nervous about whether further restrictions are coming on currently low emission compliant diesels.
I am loathe to spend a chunk upgrading the Merc to come away with something which isn’t much newer or lower mileage, or which feels like a big downgrade. I don’t generally spend as much as this on my practical car, I resent it, but prices are silly at the moment and I want something nice and reliable.
So. Don’t want another E class.
Don’t need something as big as an A6 or 5 series, though wouldn’t rule them out.
Six cylinder petrol cars - S4s and A6s with the same engine are old and leggy and don’t feel like good value. 335i touring likewise, and scarce. Not seeing much else. The odd 3.0T Volvo?
Passat boring.
Superb doesn’t appeal.
Hot hatchback derived estates too small, often front drive, usually turbo 4, and a bit juvenile.
Jag XF 3.0 not Euro6, and Euro6 XF estate engines nasty.
It’s looking like I should probably test drive the 335d (great, straight six, good to drive, quick, decent economy, but diesel, not future-proof?) or the C350e (petrol, performance good, economy good, emissions good, PHEV, comfortable, refined on electric power, but nasty four pot turbo, heavy, very complex, reliability concerns (including the same air suspension fault my car is about to wallet-rape me for).
Anything I’ve missed?
You have perfectly outlined exactly what I am looking for, been looking for ages and haven't solved it. I've had a Golf R estate in the past but really want a minimum 6 cylinders plus the ride was too harsh for me. Also had a Volvo V90 T5 which was a dreadful device, hopeless 4 pot engine and dim witt gearbox. I like it because it’s comfortable and quiet and refined and spacious and quick enough, but I mostly bought it and its predecessor because I had a great big German Shepherd Dog. He’s no longer with us, and unlikely to be replaced. I still want an estate, and it needs enough rear legroom for a couple of teenagers, but maybe don’t need the biggest one I can buy. Usage is maybe 20 or 30 suburban miles a week and then 520 miles of motorway once a month.
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
I’m a little nervous about whether further restrictions are coming on currently low emission compliant diesels.
I am loathe to spend a chunk upgrading the Merc to come away with something which isn’t much newer or lower mileage, or which feels like a big downgrade. I don’t generally spend as much as this on my practical car, I resent it, but prices are silly at the moment and I want something nice and reliable.
So. Don’t want another E class.
Don’t need something as big as an A6 or 5 series, though wouldn’t rule them out.
Six cylinder petrol cars - S4s and A6s with the same engine are old and leggy and don’t feel like good value. 335i touring likewise, and scarce. Not seeing much else. The odd 3.0T Volvo?
Passat boring.
Superb doesn’t appeal.
Hot hatchback derived estates too small, often front drive, usually turbo 4, and a bit juvenile.
Jag XF 3.0 not Euro6, and Euro6 XF estate engines nasty.
It’s looking like I should probably test drive the 335d (great, straight six, good to drive, quick, decent economy, but diesel, not future-proof?) or the C350e (petrol, performance good, economy good, emissions good, PHEV, comfortable, refined on electric power, but nasty four pot turbo, heavy, very complex, reliability concerns (including the same air suspension fault my car is about to wallet-rape me for).
Anything I’ve missed?
I think I might go cheap and buy something older with character perhaps older BMW wagon or up the budget for a 340i. Upping the budget will mean feeling like I should wash it occasionally and watch where I park it etc which is wearing.
It's a shame Lexus don't do an estate.
otolith said:
Yeah, have been looking at those. Without further budget creep (I was originally thinking of getting something for 10k-12k) they're 2014/2015 at best and 80k plus miles - the odd lower mileage, much older car.
The engine in the S4 is much more what I would like, but they don't look like great value for money compared to a 335D at similar mileage and three or four years newer or similar age and half the mileage - and which will have much lower running costs. That's really the dilemma - and this isn't really my fun car, I will still have the Elise, so there's a limit on how much added cost and risk I can take just for my subjective preferences.
Tricky if running costs are also a factor, although the reasonably low mileage S4 I linked to should return you mid 30's with leisurely driving and maintenance/repair is pretty low as well. I had a 2015 330d (not 335d) and the engine is a great piece of technical engineering with a nice balance of power and economy, but I didn't like the x-drive; it had a floaty feeling. The car felt a little ubiquitous as well. I wonder if such an engine even get properly warmed up with your journey brief? The engine in the S4 is much more what I would like, but they don't look like great value for money compared to a 335D at similar mileage and three or four years newer or similar age and half the mileage - and which will have much lower running costs. That's really the dilemma - and this isn't really my fun car, I will still have the Elise, so there's a limit on how much added cost and risk I can take just for my subjective preferences.
I actually really liked my Jaguar XF with the V6 diesel, I found the car had lots of character - although it also had a mind of its own sometimes. But it always annoyed me when sitting at lights with the window down and the diesel was chugging away. It didn't suit the car.
Shame the Lexus GS doesn't have an estate version (and a non CVT version! lol)
ninjag said:
Tricky if running costs are also a factor, although the reasonably low mileage S4 I linked to should return you mid 30's with leisurely driving and maintenance/repair is pretty low as well. I had a 2015 330d (not 335d) and the engine is a great piece of technical engineering with a nice balance of power and economy, but I didn't like the x-drive; it had a floaty feeling. The car felt a little ubiquitous as well. I wonder if such an engine even get properly warmed up with your journey brief?
I actually really liked my Jaguar XF with the V6 diesel, I found the car had lots of character - although it also had a mind of its own sometimes. But it always annoyed me when sitting at lights with the window down and the diesel was chugging away. It didn't suit the car.
Shame the Lexus GS doesn't have an estate version (and a non CVT version! lol)
Probably wouldn't get warmed up on the day to day stuff, but the bulk of the mileage is that long motorway journey every few weeks. That's the slightly irritating thing really, the bulk of the miles suit diesel perfectly, I just have concerns about the relatively small amount of unavoidable use within what will be the extended ULEZ and whether in a few years it will be Euro7 diesels only. I actually really liked my Jaguar XF with the V6 diesel, I found the car had lots of character - although it also had a mind of its own sometimes. But it always annoyed me when sitting at lights with the window down and the diesel was chugging away. It didn't suit the car.
Shame the Lexus GS doesn't have an estate version (and a non CVT version! lol)
That's why I was considering the C350e petrol hybrid, but that makes most sense for that relatively small day to day use and is only really a benefit on the long motorway runs in the sense that it can do a bit of regen, can go electric when the motorway comes to a stop, and has the performance of a larger petrol engine with the cruising economy of a smaller one. I doubt that I do enough local mileage that it's even worth paying for a charge point to be put in.
The Euro6 diesel XFs all appear to be four cylinders, which is even wronger than a diesel Jag!
otolith said:
Probably wouldn't get warmed up on the day to day stuff, but the bulk of the mileage is that long motorway journey every few weeks. That's the slightly irritating thing really, the bulk of the miles suit diesel perfectly, I just have concerns about the relatively small amount of unavoidable use within what will be the extended ULEZ and whether in a few years it will be Euro7 diesels only.
That's why I was considering the C350e petrol hybrid, but that makes most sense for that relatively small day to day use and is only really a benefit on the long motorway runs in the sense that it can do a bit of regen, can go electric when the motorway comes to a stop, and has the performance of a larger petrol engine with the cruising economy of a smaller one. I doubt that I do enough local mileage that it's even worth paying for a charge point to be put in.
The Euro6 diesel XFs all appear to be four cylinders, which is even wronger than a diesel Jag!
re. the Jag. It's annoying that we don't get their nice supercharged V6 petrol here in Sportbrake guise, but America does!?? Go figure that one out lolThat's why I was considering the C350e petrol hybrid, but that makes most sense for that relatively small day to day use and is only really a benefit on the long motorway runs in the sense that it can do a bit of regen, can go electric when the motorway comes to a stop, and has the performance of a larger petrol engine with the cruising economy of a smaller one. I doubt that I do enough local mileage that it's even worth paying for a charge point to be put in.
The Euro6 diesel XFs all appear to be four cylinders, which is even wronger than a diesel Jag!
The S4 linked is Euro 6 petrol (and lower tax) so that should provide a decent amount of future proofing considering a Jag 5.0 V8 s/c is currently ok for the ULEZ. A petrol hybrid could be a good option, but I've heard they can be pretty poor with economy on the long trips due to the extra weight etc. Maybe worth double checking that though.
What about leasing a diesel? Then you don't really have to worry about the ULEZ as you'll only be stuck with the car for a few years and be in the latest tech all the time?
I think Euro6 petrol cars should be reasonably safe from an emissions point of view - they are currently only requiring them to be Euro4 (so post 2006) whereas diesels are Euro6 which is roughly post 2015. Even if they tighten the petrol limits up, they are starting from a lower base.
That hybrid Mercedes is pretty reasonable on fuel though obviously nowhere near the unrealistic plug in hybrid official figure based on doing most of the test on battery. Real world low 40's overall. 208bhp two litre turbo four and an 80bhp electric motor assisting with a maximum of about 275bhp available using them both, so not bad for the performance on offer.
Leasing - crikey, 500 notes a month gets a list of things I'd feel vaguely disappointed to choose between were I looking at a company car list! Slightly more would get me a Tesla Model 3 for 8000 miles a year on a five year lease, but I'm not sure I'd like to pay out over 30k to not own a car.
That hybrid Mercedes is pretty reasonable on fuel though obviously nowhere near the unrealistic plug in hybrid official figure based on doing most of the test on battery. Real world low 40's overall. 208bhp two litre turbo four and an 80bhp electric motor assisting with a maximum of about 275bhp available using them both, so not bad for the performance on offer.
Leasing - crikey, 500 notes a month gets a list of things I'd feel vaguely disappointed to choose between were I looking at a company car list! Slightly more would get me a Tesla Model 3 for 8000 miles a year on a five year lease, but I'm not sure I'd like to pay out over 30k to not own a car.
otolith said:
, I just have concerns about the relatively small amount of unavoidable use within what will be the extended ULEZ and whether in a few years it will be Euro7 diesels only.
The current argument is whether Euro 7 will come in in 2025, 2026 or later https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/acea-says-2025-targe... .It seems relatively unlikely that cars newer than three years old would be banned/surcharged from city centres for pollution reasons (?), so I'd imagine the earliest date for Euro 7 city centre requirements would be what, 2028-30 ?
The other thing we could see in this timeframe is all ICE cars being charged regardless of emissions status, but that wouldn't distinguish between petrol or diesel or old or new cars.
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/...
This will thankfully push action on diseasel faster
This will thankfully push action on diseasel faster
otolith said:
I spend a lot of time in Surrey these days, and the threatened expansion of the ULEZ has put my 2010 E350CDI estate on notice. I am rather fond of the thing, it replaced an E320CDI of which I was also fond, but it has been an unreliable money pit.
I like it because it’s comfortable and quiet and refined and spacious and quick enough, but I mostly bought it and its predecessor because I had a great big German Shepherd Dog. He’s no longer with us, and unlikely to be replaced. I still want an estate, and it needs enough rear legroom for a couple of teenagers, but maybe don’t need the biggest one I can buy. Usage is maybe 20 or 30 suburban miles a week and then 520 miles of motorway once a month.
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
I’m a little nervous about whether further restrictions are coming on currently low emission compliant diesels.
I am loathe to spend a chunk upgrading the Merc to come away with something which isn’t much newer or lower mileage, or which feels like a big downgrade. I don’t generally spend as much as this on my practical car, I resent it, but prices are silly at the moment and I want something nice and reliable.
So. Don’t want another E class.
Don’t need something as big as an A6 or 5 series, though wouldn’t rule them out.
Six cylinder petrol cars - S4s and A6s with the same engine are old and leggy and don’t feel like good value. 335i touring likewise, and scarce. Not seeing much else. The odd 3.0T Volvo?
Passat boring.
Superb doesn’t appeal.
Hot hatchback derived estates too small, often front drive, usually turbo 4, and a bit juvenile.
Jag XF 3.0 not Euro6, and Euro6 XF estate engines nasty.
It’s looking like I should probably test drive the 335d (great, straight six, good to drive, quick, decent economy, but diesel, not future-proof?) or the C350e (petrol, performance good, economy good, emissions good, PHEV, comfortable, refined on electric power, but nasty four pot turbo, heavy, very complex, reliability concerns (including the same air suspension fault my car is about to wallet-rape me for).
Anything I’ve missed?
They can't make anymore restrictions on diesels as Euro6 is the highest you can get, the next restriction will be on Euro4 petrols.I like it because it’s comfortable and quiet and refined and spacious and quick enough, but I mostly bought it and its predecessor because I had a great big German Shepherd Dog. He’s no longer with us, and unlikely to be replaced. I still want an estate, and it needs enough rear legroom for a couple of teenagers, but maybe don’t need the biggest one I can buy. Usage is maybe 20 or 30 suburban miles a week and then 520 miles of motorway once a month.
I don’t particularly want a diesel.
I don’t particularly want a four cylinder car, or a petrol turbo.
I’m a little nervous about whether further restrictions are coming on currently low emission compliant diesels.
I am loathe to spend a chunk upgrading the Merc to come away with something which isn’t much newer or lower mileage, or which feels like a big downgrade. I don’t generally spend as much as this on my practical car, I resent it, but prices are silly at the moment and I want something nice and reliable.
So. Don’t want another E class.
Don’t need something as big as an A6 or 5 series, though wouldn’t rule them out.
Six cylinder petrol cars - S4s and A6s with the same engine are old and leggy and don’t feel like good value. 335i touring likewise, and scarce. Not seeing much else. The odd 3.0T Volvo?
Passat boring.
Superb doesn’t appeal.
Hot hatchback derived estates too small, often front drive, usually turbo 4, and a bit juvenile.
Jag XF 3.0 not Euro6, and Euro6 XF estate engines nasty.
It’s looking like I should probably test drive the 335d (great, straight six, good to drive, quick, decent economy, but diesel, not future-proof?) or the C350e (petrol, performance good, economy good, emissions good, PHEV, comfortable, refined on electric power, but nasty four pot turbo, heavy, very complex, reliability concerns (including the same air suspension fault my car is about to wallet-rape me for).
Anything I’ve missed?
Insignia VXR
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202072...
2.5 Mazda GT Sport Nav
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204204...
3.0TDI A6 Black Edition:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205246...
Volvo V60 Diesel Hybrid:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204285...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206156...
Subaru Legacy 3.0R Save the pennies for fuel and maintenance. It won't depreciate.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111149...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111149...
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