How About Another EU Referendum?
Poll: How About Another EU Referendum?
Total Members Polled: 462
Discussion
I think we probably should have another referendum, but not for a few years yet.
Brexit as it is currently unfolding does not appear to be working but we should at least try to make a go of it. Unfortunately as yet there seems to be no plan for this beyond sloganeering. What is particularly depressing is the deep tribalism Brexit seems to have engendered or at least to have focussed and the extermination of any form of nuanced thinking or balance that tribalism brings. A solution is much harder to engineer within an atmosphere of very defensive Brexiteers and often extraordinary snobbishness from the Remain contingent.
I was fully sucked into this tribalism myself for a year or two after 2016 but have now at least reflected on why people voted to leave and how people in particular circumstances are differentially affected. I would hope that in time some other Remainers might also try to 'walk in the shoes' of those who voted to leave to try to figure out why they may have made that choice and acknowledge with open honesty when the EU behaves badly towards the UK, rather than reasoning mechanistically. It is important for those who oppose Brexit to look like they have tried to make leaving work since this will significantly affect the degree of influence they will have over what comes next. That's how life works.
As to whether we could re-join and on what terms, this is simply speculation. There is no reason to believe we could not simply re-join on our original terms - and nothing to suggest we could either. But Russia's actions strengthen our hand.
Brexit as it is currently unfolding does not appear to be working but we should at least try to make a go of it. Unfortunately as yet there seems to be no plan for this beyond sloganeering. What is particularly depressing is the deep tribalism Brexit seems to have engendered or at least to have focussed and the extermination of any form of nuanced thinking or balance that tribalism brings. A solution is much harder to engineer within an atmosphere of very defensive Brexiteers and often extraordinary snobbishness from the Remain contingent.
I was fully sucked into this tribalism myself for a year or two after 2016 but have now at least reflected on why people voted to leave and how people in particular circumstances are differentially affected. I would hope that in time some other Remainers might also try to 'walk in the shoes' of those who voted to leave to try to figure out why they may have made that choice and acknowledge with open honesty when the EU behaves badly towards the UK, rather than reasoning mechanistically. It is important for those who oppose Brexit to look like they have tried to make leaving work since this will significantly affect the degree of influence they will have over what comes next. That's how life works.
As to whether we could re-join and on what terms, this is simply speculation. There is no reason to believe we could not simply re-join on our original terms - and nothing to suggest we could either. But Russia's actions strengthen our hand.
Edited by dbdb on Friday 24th June 18:10
dbdb said:
I had hopes for that but it was probably no more than rousing words to Boris Johnson, like everything else.
I don't see why there's the need for all this formal aligning. We can have some lovely agreements here and there instead. I voted remain and certainly would again but also think Europe trying to integrate itself isn't going to work for a whole lot of people. They should be aiming for very close cooperation instead.
I didn’t vote. But if I did I would vote leave and still prefer to be out.
The EU is really a club that is unfolding… it suits Germany and France mainly with the other getting money at the cost of sovereignty. Reminds me of the plantation workers getting paid but must spend the money on the shop owned by the plantation owner.
Has some benefits because it’s a closed club but the response to Ukraine really show what they are.
I am good out even with all the pain. We will adapt.
The EU is really a club that is unfolding… it suits Germany and France mainly with the other getting money at the cost of sovereignty. Reminds me of the plantation workers getting paid but must spend the money on the shop owned by the plantation owner.
Has some benefits because it’s a closed club but the response to Ukraine really show what they are.
I am good out even with all the pain. We will adapt.
There's been a couple of references to the EU in relation to Ukraine which is interesting. I take it you know that the 'major' EU countries, also in NATO of course, have actually provided significant support. The energy issue is currently problematic for some but they're doing something about it.
I voted leave and still would. We would still have lousy politicians if we had never left, or if we rejoined. It's a separate problem to a large degree. However I am still optimistic that in the long run it will help to improve our politics. They have one less place to hide and I think in a perverse sort of way the problems of the current government are a demonstration of that.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
There's been a couple of references to the EU in relation to Ukraine which is interesting. I take it you know that the 'major' EU countries, also in NATO of course, have actually provided significant support. The energy issue is currently problematic for some but they're doing something about it.
Yes they are, Germany are about to start rationing gas... https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/23/germany-r...Luckily for them they have the UK to help as we are pumping extra gas to them... https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-economy/3458720-b...
You would think they would be a bit more grateful...
I am disappointed that brexit has been turned into a s
tshow, in part by covid but mostly by politics getting in the way of actually cracking on and paddling our own canoe.
Special mention to bitter remainers still pissing into the punch years after the event and doing their best to hang every misfortune on brexit even if it's happening everywhere else in the world at the same time.
tshow, in part by covid but mostly by politics getting in the way of actually cracking on and paddling our own canoe.Special mention to bitter remainers still pissing into the punch years after the event and doing their best to hang every misfortune on brexit even if it's happening everywhere else in the world at the same time.
Was too young for the 1975 one (not born yet but was in progress), Voted remain in 2016, and would vote rejoin in the 3rd one if it ever happens
But that does not matter
There is no way the UK could rejoin until it sorted out the internal issues that caused Brexit in the 1st place.
The huge gap between investment in the south east vs the rest of the UK, this needs to be fixed, some parts of the UK have had zero money spent on them since the 70s and 80s and they look it!.
The Brexiters weaponised this for years and blamed the EU for it when it was Westminster all along.
We don't have a written constitution which is a big fail
There is zero onus on the press to tell actual facts to UK citizens
Our FPTP election system is hopelessly out of date and unfair, causing toxic tribalism in our politics, we need a form of PR.
And both the majority of UK citizens, but just as importantly all the major political parties, those who actually have MPs, have to be in favour inc the Tories so there is no rapid reversal
Until then, talk of another referendum is pie in the sky.
But that does not matter
There is no way the UK could rejoin until it sorted out the internal issues that caused Brexit in the 1st place.
The huge gap between investment in the south east vs the rest of the UK, this needs to be fixed, some parts of the UK have had zero money spent on them since the 70s and 80s and they look it!.
The Brexiters weaponised this for years and blamed the EU for it when it was Westminster all along.
We don't have a written constitution which is a big fail
There is zero onus on the press to tell actual facts to UK citizens
Our FPTP election system is hopelessly out of date and unfair, causing toxic tribalism in our politics, we need a form of PR.
And both the majority of UK citizens, but just as importantly all the major political parties, those who actually have MPs, have to be in favour inc the Tories so there is no rapid reversal
Until then, talk of another referendum is pie in the sky.
A Winner Is You said:
TCX said:
How about another 2,best out of 3? Scissors paper stone?
Done over......and out full stop.
What it really means is "keep having them until I get the result I wanted, then it will be considered settled for generations." See also Scotland.Done over......and out full stop.
At the time of the previous independence referendum, Brexit was not seriously on the cards. In the Brexit referendum, Scotland voted 62/38 in favour of Remain, but was taken out anyway.
Given that, and the fact that Brexit was the single most important matter put to the electorate in our lifetimes, how can anyone argue against a second referendum to validate the decision taken at the first?
petop said:
I voted leave. Then i got a job with a French company and part of my job is bringing things into the UK. Today, I would vote remain as its a pain the ass to do things now.
Similar to a friend of mine who owns a small café. Voted Leave, and is now confused that it's so much harder to get staff.Al Gorithum said:
Full disclosure: I voted to leave the EU.
However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
What is so attractive about being beholden to a one size fits no one empire of 3rd rate politicians, However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
f
k getting hitched up again .. next !!!Ivan stewart said:
Al Gorithum said:
Full disclosure: I voted to leave the EU.
However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
What is so attractive about being beholden to a one size fits no one empire of 3rd rate politicians, However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
f
k getting hitched up again .. next !!!I was a remainer. I don't think there should be a vote to rejoin for a generation (approx 25 years from the original vote).
Over that time it will transpire how global, EU and UK politics impact each region. If we had another referendum now, it would just be based on 'bks' again.
Anyone who mentions our new found sovereignty should take a running jump.....I have seen zero impact except I did get my new black passport through last month.......
Over that time it will transpire how global, EU and UK politics impact each region. If we had another referendum now, it would just be based on 'b
ks' again.Anyone who mentions our new found sovereignty should take a running jump.....I have seen zero impact except I did get my new black passport through last month.......
mike9009 said:
Anyone who mentions our new found sovereignty should take a running jump.....I have seen zero impact except I did get my new black passport through last month.......
A competent government might actually have created some benefits by now. No idea what but there must be something that could have been rustled up.They could also have engineered a softer landing for the problems it has created.
We do not have a competent government.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
I voted leave and still would. We would still have lousy politicians if we had never left, or if we rejoined. It's a separate problem to a large degree. However I am still optimistic that in the long run it will help to improve our politics. They have one less place to hide and I think in a perverse sort of way the problems of the current government are a demonstration of that.
Exactly. I always said the EU was like cruise control for politicians; it meant they could always blame someone else and not take responsibility. No wonder they love it. Being out of the EU means one less tier of clowns and I’m glad we’re out.
Kermit power said:
Ivan stewart said:
Al Gorithum said:
Full disclosure: I voted to leave the EU.
However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
What is so attractive about being beholden to a one size fits no one empire of 3rd rate politicians, However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
f
k getting hitched up again .. next !!!A shame but no problem, if the Scots, Irish or Welsh want to go their own way.
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