How About Another EU Referendum?
Poll: How About Another EU Referendum?
Total Members Polled: 462
Discussion
Kermit power said:
Ivan stewart said:
Al Gorithum said:
Full disclosure: I voted to leave the EU.
However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
What is so attractive about being beholden to a one size fits no one empire of 3rd rate politicians, However it's pretty clear to me that I was sold a pup by the lying Boris and Reece Mogg etc, but even if it can be done successfully we don't have any talent in Govt to pull it off, therefore if there was another referendum I'd vote to remain.
I wonder how many other other Leavers have changed their mind?
What say you?
f
k getting hitched up again .. next !!!It was a close call.
But we're out, and despite two more PH dreamworld threads, I'll keep my shilling on the side for 'very little chance' (referendum 2 any time soon) and likewise for another 10 years min on applying to rejoin, it has to be apply first and they may say no. After about 10 years, very little chance becomes little chance, and while the EU will still be around tomorrow it's another one of those uncertain matters longer-term, just as the binary Leave/Remain thing was uncertain - and the vote surprised quite a few folks.
Trade myopia is still prevalent. It took approx 13 years post-EEC accession to settle down, it may well not take so long post-brexit.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
There's been a couple of references to the EU in relation to Ukraine which is interesting. I take it you know that the 'major' EU countries, also in NATO of course, have actually provided significant support.
Such as? Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
Macron is a two-faced slimeball buddying up to Putin and then has the nerve to go to Kiev.
Ursula defends buying Russian gas by claiming it would otherwise be sold for a higher amount elsewhere...total rubbish.
And then we saw the EU lie and cheat over the AZ covid vaccine, they're lucky they didn't get sued for defamation.
Everyone shouts about Boris but the EU politicians are in the next league.
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
There's been a couple of references to the EU in relation to Ukraine which is interesting. I take it you know that the 'major' EU countries, also in NATO of course, have actually provided significant support.
Such as? Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
Macron is a two-faced slimeball buddying up to Putin and then has the nerve to go to Kiev.
Ursula defends buying Russian gas by claiming it would otherwise be sold for a higher amount elsewhere...total rubbish.
And then we saw the EU lie and cheat over the AZ covid vaccine, they're lucky they didn't get sued for defamation.
Everyone shouts about Boris but the EU politicians are in the next league.
Well said.
No.
Why cant we do more trade with the commonnwealth? Why isnt there the easy access, easy visa style we enjoyed with the EU?
Oh, and in the current polital climate why would we:
Who has bought the most fossil fuels from Russia since the Ukraine invasion?
China £13.5bn
Germany £13bn
Netherlands £7bn
Italy £5.9bn
Turkey £5.7bn
Poland £4.3bn
France £3.3bn
India £3bn
Source: CREA
Do we want to be associated with these countries??
Why cant we do more trade with the commonnwealth? Why isnt there the easy access, easy visa style we enjoyed with the EU?
Oh, and in the current polital climate why would we:
Who has bought the most fossil fuels from Russia since the Ukraine invasion?
China £13.5bn
Germany £13bn
Netherlands £7bn
Italy £5.9bn
Turkey £5.7bn
Poland £4.3bn
France £3.3bn
India £3bn
Source: CREA
Do we want to be associated with these countries??
williamp said:
No.
Why cant we do more trade with the commonnwealth? Why isnt there the easy access, easy visa style we enjoyed with the EU?
Because the Commonwealth as a whole don't want the organisation to turn into a trade bloc or a free-travel area - a lot of them worked very hard to escape from the UK's economic and political sphere of influence (and the ones that were more aggrieved when the UK turned towards the EEC, like New Zealand, have long since adapted their diplomatic and economic focuses to fit the modern world). They're happy for it to remain a body based on shared Why cant we do more trade with the commonnwealth? Why isnt there the easy access, easy visa style we enjoyed with the EU?
political and cultural values, but not shared access or political and economic power.
I will also stick my neck out and suggest that the portion of the UK population that voted Leave on the basis of taking back control and an opportunity for more proactive border and immigration control won't be especially enamoured at the prospect of a freedom of movement scheme that includes 2.4 billion people, many of whom are from the Global South.
2xChevrons said:
Because the Commonwealth as a whole don't want the organisation to turn into a trade bloc or a free-travel area - a lot of them worked very hard to escape from the UK's economic and political sphere of influence (and the ones that were more aggrieved when the UK turned towards the EEC, like New Zealand, have long since adapted their diplomatic and economic focuses to fit the modern world). They're happy for it to remain a body based on shared
political and cultural values, but not shared access or political and economic power.
I will also stick my neck out and suggest that the portion of the UK population that voted Leave on the basis of taking back control and an opportunity for more proactive border and immigration control won't be especially enamoured at the prospect of a freedom of movement scheme that includes 2.4 billion people, many of whom are from the Global South.
As a matter of fact it's leavers who are most keen on various varieties of the CANZUK option, meaning more freedom of movement to/from Australia and New Zealand.political and cultural values, but not shared access or political and economic power.
I will also stick my neck out and suggest that the portion of the UK population that voted Leave on the basis of taking back control and an opportunity for more proactive border and immigration control won't be especially enamoured at the prospect of a freedom of movement scheme that includes 2.4 billion people, many of whom are from the Global South.
bad company said:
I was undecided for a long time but eventually voted reluctantly to leave. If there was another referendum I wouldn’t be reluctant at all. I’d lust vote leave/out and never return.
Same here, I was undecided but I spoke to my children who convinced me that leaving was the best decision. They have been proven right on numerous occasions since. CharlesdeGaulle said:
Jenny Tailor said:
Oh goodie - another Brexit thread.
While it is eatly days - I haven't read anything in this thread that hasn't been hashed to death in any of the others.
But we live in hope.
Well your post was a valued contribution, so thank you. While it is eatly days - I haven't read anything in this thread that hasn't been hashed to death in any of the others.
But we live in hope.
glazbagun said:
I voted Remain because it was the only pragmatic choice, but now we've left I can't see us ever being let back in on the same terms. We've ceded power like total fking morons, noone's going to volunteer to give us some back.
WTF has the ex-lead singer of Herman's Hermits got to do with it?king morons, noone's going to volunteer to give us some back.Edited by glazbagun on Saturday 25th June 00:33
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Such as?
Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
Are they? This seems to suggest otherwise. Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
https://mobile.twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/...
Ukraine need modern long range mobile artillery. Germany is delivering some. The UK is delivering 60 year old reconditioned ex Belgium equipment which is inferior to that used by the Russians.
Dr Jekyll said:
As a matter of fact it's leavers who are most keen on various varieties of the CANZUK option, meaning more freedom of movement to/from Australia and New Zealand.
CANZUK aren't the Commonwealth, though, are they? There are another 50 countries and 2.2 billion people in the Commonwealth besides CANZUK. All I was saying was that people who were against European FoM because it opened the UK to unrestricted immigration from a large intranational community with strongly divergent economic levels, wages and living standards (thus making the UK a desirable destination) aren't going to support turning the Commonwealth into a free movement zone and giving the populations of India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Bangladesh, South Africa, Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya etc. the unfettered right to reside here - which is what williamp was suggesting.
CANZUK are in the Commonwealth but any such agreement would be made outside it. A CANZUK free travel area (or at least more generous visa criteria) would be between countries on similar economic levels so you're unlikely to get thousands of Canadians coming to the UK to be plumbers and bricklayers and living nine to a room for five years so they can save enough to buy a big house in Saskatchewan. It would (I assume these supporters would say) be more like the EEC/EU before its eastward expansion.
Also, I would suggest that a small but non-zero portion of Leave-voting CANZUK supporters do so out of misplaced imperial nostalgia and because CANZUK are majority white nations who they see as more culturally 'acceptable'.
What we have now isnt what was sold, however I still think it's too early to think about returning. It took 5 years from the vote to actually leave after all, I'd imagine it'll need double, or triple that just to get a feel of where the land will lie.
May became PM charged with delivering a cause she didn't believe in, and unnecessarily threw away her majority.
That led to stalemate and possibly a case study in how not to negotiate.
Boris was needed to break the stalemate.
But he isn't a politician who can or will do anything useful after that. The sooner he's gone the better.
It needs a few governments now with long term vision to try to create something interesting - if they can get away from cheap point scoring.
Blue passports and crowns on pints is mental.
It needs investment to create a shipping hub, tax reform, opening of borders to skilled labour, labour reform, etc etc etc.
Not sure which party can deliver that - Tories are in it for themselves and their mates so have no interest, Liberal dems just want to go round the brexit buoy again. Labour could do it, as philosophically they're more comfortable with large public sector infrastructure projects....but seem to prefer in fighting and identity politics.
As a country it seems one of the strongest proven arguments against Brexit is that we lack the imagination and capability to deliver despite the opportunity. A sad state of affairs.
May became PM charged with delivering a cause she didn't believe in, and unnecessarily threw away her majority.
That led to stalemate and possibly a case study in how not to negotiate.
Boris was needed to break the stalemate.
But he isn't a politician who can or will do anything useful after that. The sooner he's gone the better.
It needs a few governments now with long term vision to try to create something interesting - if they can get away from cheap point scoring.
Blue passports and crowns on pints is mental.
It needs investment to create a shipping hub, tax reform, opening of borders to skilled labour, labour reform, etc etc etc.
Not sure which party can deliver that - Tories are in it for themselves and their mates so have no interest, Liberal dems just want to go round the brexit buoy again. Labour could do it, as philosophically they're more comfortable with large public sector infrastructure projects....but seem to prefer in fighting and identity politics.
As a country it seems one of the strongest proven arguments against Brexit is that we lack the imagination and capability to deliver despite the opportunity. A sad state of affairs.
Mrr T said:
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Such as?
Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
Are they? This seems to suggest otherwise.Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
https://mobile.twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/...
Ukraine need modern long range mobile artillery. Germany is delivering some. The UK is delivering 60 year old reconditioned ex Belgium equipment which is inferior to that used by the Russians.
Pledging to deliver and actually delivering are 2 different things, delivering "sweet fa" seems quite apt.
Did the Germans ever deliver the 5000 pledged helmets?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/all/short_news/ge...
don'tbesilly said:
Mrr T said:
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Such as?
Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
Are they? This seems to suggest otherwise.Germany are doing Amber Heard style pledges.
.and delivering sweet fa.
https://mobile.twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/...
Ukraine need modern long range mobile artillery. Germany is delivering some. The UK is delivering 60 year old reconditioned ex Belgium equipment which is inferior to that used by the Russians.
Pledging to deliver and actually delivering are 2 different things, delivering "sweet fa" seems quite apt.
Did the Germans ever deliver the 5000 pledged helmets?
https://www.euractiv.com/section/all/short_news/ge...
https://mobile.twitter.com/oleksiireznikov
I suspect as an official in the Ukrainian Defence Ministry he might know a bit about the situation.
2xChevrons said:
Dr Jekyll said:
As a matter of fact it's leavers who are most keen on various varieties of the CANZUK option, meaning more freedom of movement to/from Australia and New Zealand.
CANZUK aren't the Commonwealth, though, are they? There are another 50 countries and 2.2 billion people in the Commonwealth besides CANZUK. All I was saying was that people who were against European FoM because it opened the UK to unrestricted immigration from a large intranational community with strongly divergent economic levels, wages and living standards (thus making the UK a desirable destination) aren't going to support turning the Commonwealth into a free movement zone and giving the populations of India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Bangladesh, South Africa, Tanzania, Uganda, Kenya etc. the unfettered right to reside here - which is what williamp was suggesting.
CANZUK are in the Commonwealth but any such agreement would be made outside it. A CANZUK free travel area (or at least more generous visa criteria) would be between countries on similar economic levels so you're unlikely to get thousands of Canadians coming to the UK to be plumbers and bricklayers and living nine to a room for five years so they can save enough to buy a big house in Saskatchewan. It would (I assume these supporters would say) be more like the EEC/EU before its eastward expansion.
Also, I would suggest that a small but non-zero portion of Leave-voting CANZUK supporters do so out of misplaced imperial nostalgia and because CANZUK are majority white nations who they see as more culturally 'acceptable'.
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