Street harassment to be made a crime

[bitchstewie]

I know there have been discussions about wolf whistling and TFL ran a poster campaign about intrusive staring and it looks like the Government are intending to introduce legislation to make these a potential crime.

Street harassment: Wolf whistling to be banned in crackdown

Can't say I agree with Braverman on much but this doesn't seem a bad thing though again I'm surprised existing legislation can't deal with it.

[s1962a]

I've actually never wolf whistled to any random person on the street. Does that make me an outlier with the PH powerfully built massive?

No one should be harassed.

[bitchstewie]

You're quite right about that I'm genuinely unsure on the need for specific legislation to deal with it though.

Presume right now existing harassment laws don't lay out every single specific thing that could constitute harassment do they?

[irc]

Covered by breach of the peace in Scotland. Our common law is pretty flexible. There was the case years ago where a couple of shopkeepers thought it was OK selling glue sniffing kits because there was no specific law against it.

Wrong.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaliq_v_HM_Advoca...

[Dingu]

bhstewie said:

You're quite right about that I'm genuinely unsure on the need for specific legislation to deal with it though.

Presume right now existing harassment laws don't lay out every single specific thing that could constitute harassment do they?

Specific legislation seems pretty widely supported by people with the knowledge to make an assessment in fairness.

[bitchstewie]

Dingu said:

Specific legislation seems pretty widely supported by people with the knowledge to make an assessment in fairness.

I've absolutely no problem with it there's just been an advert on the TV for a documentary on the kind of abuse/harassment women face and you only have to read the accounts from women to know it's rampant and unacceptable.

I genuinely don't understand how the law is laid out so that (for example) you couldn't be prosecuted for following someone right now under existing legislation.

To use a really crude analogy I guess I mean in the same way that I presume murder legislation doesn't lay out all the ways you could murder someone.

[anonymous-user]

s1962a said:

I've actually never wolf whistled to any random person on the street. Does that make me an outlier with the PH powerfully built massive?

No one should be harassed.

100%

[Largechris]

bhstewie said:

To use a really crude analogy I guess I mean in the same way that I presume murder legislation doesn't lay out all the ways you could murder someone.

I apologise for sniggering slightly at this ^^^^^

[Ntv]

The Crown Prosecution Service advice is that even one-off incidents of "cat-calling" could be classed as offences under existing public order laws. The proposed new laws in large part look to be about awareness raising.

The media link this sort of behaviour (which I agree with other posters is unacceptable) to the Sarah Everard case. It is far from clear that such laws will make cases like that less likely, more likely or have little effect.

[ChocolateFrog]

bhstewie said:

I know there have been discussions about wolf whistling and TFL ran a poster campaign about intrusive staring and it looks like the Government are intending to introduce legislation to make these a potential crime.

Street harassment: Wolf whistling to be banned in crackdown

Can't say I agree with Braverman on much but this doesn't seem a bad thing though again I'm surprised existing legislation can't deal with it.

My degree was roughly 90:10 female/male mix so most days I'd be walking around Liverpool with women from my course and most days they'd get wolf whistled at.

It was toe-curlingly embarrassing.

I don't imagine it's as bad today but this legislation seems welcome to me, although I doubt it'll be enforced.

[Astacus]

I think you are wrong. I think it will be tested very quickly, in order to ensure that the public are a. Aware it exists and b. To demonstrate that the government are ‘doing something’

ETA: I have always found it very hard to understand the need for this kind of behaviour. Why do people do it?

I can see that the cat calling aspect might be some kind of signal to other blokes of how blokey you are. Which is just weird, but some of the rest of it staring and such, has to be down to some sort of inability to interact with women. No?

Edited by Astacus on Friday 9th December 15:41

[Carl_Manchester]

A decent chunk of it is down to drunk/sniffed up knuckledragger tradesmen throwing a barb or two out of the window on a Thursday/Friday afternoon.

You can't legislate against stupidity but something is better than nothing in this instance.

[irc]

So if it can be dealt with under existing laws it is an enforcement problem not a law problem. Just PR. Must be seen to be doing something. Passing laws is easy and relatively cheap. Increasing enforcement is harder and more expensive.

Like when in Scotland a specific law was brought in to charge anyone who assaulted emergency workers. Assaulting anyone was already a crime. The new law didn't increase penalties.

[Dingu]

irc said:

So if it can be dealt with under existing laws it is an enforcement problem not a law problem. Just PR. Must be seen to be doing something. Passing laws is easy and relatively cheap. Increasing enforcement is harder and more expensive.

Like when in Scotland a specific law was brought in to charge anyone who assaulted emergency workers. Assaulting anyone was already a crime. The new law didn't increase penalties.

With respect to posters in the thread I suspect drawing conclusions on the validity or usefulness of the new legislation from Pistonheads is like taking motoring advice from a forum for Exotic Fish owners. Posters here are extremely unlikely to have regularly experienced the issues being dealt with, as has been apparent in other threads.

[voyds9]

And coming after, a law requiring you to make advances to fat munters to prove you aren't fatphobic.

[irc]

Dingu said:

irc said:

So if it can be dealt with under existing laws it is an enforcement problem not a law problem. Just PR. Must be seen to be doing something. Passing laws is easy and relatively cheap. Increasing enforcement is harder and more expensive.

Like when in Scotland a specific law was brought in to charge anyone who assaulted emergency workers. Assaulting anyone was already a crime. The new law didn't increase penalties.

With respect to posters in the thread I suspect drawing conclusions on the validity or usefulness of the new legislation from Pistonheads is like taking motoring advice from a forum for Exotic Fish owners. Posters here are extremely unlikely to have regularly experienced the issues being dealt with, as has been apparent in other threads.

I did spent 30 years charging people with crimes under Scottish laws though. So I neeed a basic understanding.

[Biker 1]

I simply don't understand wolf whistling. I'm a divorcee & would love to 'pull a bird' etc. If I whistle at a woman, will that make me instantly attractive & she'll automatically come back to my place?

[eccles]

I think it will still be quite hard to prosecute someone though. How do you prove someone wolf whistled at you? At what point does staring cross the line, and then what if they say no I wasn't staring?

[anonymous-user]

irc said:

So if it can be dealt with under existing laws it is an enforcement problem not a law problem. Just PR. Must be seen to be doing something. Passing laws is easy and relatively cheap. Increasing enforcement is harder and more expensive.

Like when in Scotland a specific law was brought in to charge anyone who assaulted emergency workers. Assaulting anyone was already a crime. The new law didn't increase penalties.

Odd. Did it not take sentences from 6 months to 12 months like England and Wales?

[Caddyshack]

Biker 1 said:

I simply don't understand wolf whistling. I'm a divorcee & would love to 'pull a bird' etc. If I whistle at a woman, will that make me instantly attractive & she'll automatically come back to my place?

I always assumed it would just be a compliment but would never expect anyone to get a date from it.

I wish a lady would wolf whistle at me.