Trans woman convicted rapist sent to female prison

[Randy Winkman]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Because the answers are so deliberately vague.

In that (now famous) thread - when asked "if somebody born male, who commits sexual assaults on women, gets sentenced to prison for raping a woman, should they go to a male or female prison" someone famously resorted to "i don't believe in prison"

It's these levels of avoidance when asking basic questions.

Would you like a stab at (directly) answering the question above or will you just continue to say people don't listen to the answers?

Given my previous experience with you, I will respectfully decline to engage with you.

Make of that as you will. If you want to crow some kind of a "win" then I gladly give that to you.

It's fully expected.

You can't answer simple questions - not designed to 'trick' you.

Why should anyone be taken seriously on this subject if you're terrified to answer the question "should someone born male who commits multiple sexual assaults on women go to a female prison if they identify as female".

You keep saying people twist your answer.

But you can't actually answer.

I appreciate you aren't aiming your question at me but as a (near) middle aged, straight, white bloke that spends most of his life in a t-shirt and jogging pants I'll give you my answer. They should almost certainly go to a male prison but it should be decided as an individual case based on as much information as is readily available. So I'm almost definitive but not quite. I am drawing attention though to the fact that I don't really like such "yes - no" questions because I dont think that things like that should be simplified and especially dont like the gleeful "person X cant say what a woman is" approach. I appreciate that as far as I know you've not asked that one though.

[ZedLeg]

In the meantime, neo nazis turn out for a rally organised by prominent terf Kelly Jay Keen (aka posey Parker) again. I’m sure they aren’t connected to the main protest though and have genuine concerns about women’s safety.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/vis...

[8.4L 154]

ZedLeg said:

In the meantime, neo nazis turn out for a rally organised by prominent terf Kelly Jay Keen (aka posey Parker) again. I’m sure they aren’t connected to the main protest though and have genuine concerns about women’s safety.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/vis...

Start a new thread, title it "Nazis support UK Activist's Anti Trans rally In Melbourne"

[HM-2]

Randy Winkman said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Clockwork Cupcake said:

RobbieTheTruth said:

Because the answers are so deliberately vague.

In that (now famous) thread - when asked "if somebody born male, who commits sexual assaults on women, gets sentenced to prison for raping a woman, should they go to a male or female prison" someone famously resorted to "i don't believe in prison"

It's these levels of avoidance when asking basic questions.

Would you like a stab at (directly) answering the question above or will you just continue to say people don't listen to the answers?

Given my previous experience with you, I will respectfully decline to engage with you.

Make of that as you will. If you want to crow some kind of a "win" then I gladly give that to you.

It's fully expected.

You can't answer simple questions - not designed to 'trick' you.

Why should anyone be taken seriously on this subject if you're terrified to answer the question "should someone born male who commits multiple sexual assaults on women go to a female prison if they identify as female".

You keep saying people twist your answer.

But you can't actually answer.

I appreciate you aren't aiming your question at me but as a (near) middle aged, straight, white bloke that spends most of his life in a t-shirt and jogging pants I'll give you my answer. They should almost certainly go to a male prison but it should be decided as an individual case based on as much information as is readily available. So I'm almost definitive but not quite.

The only sensible answer to.this question which will ever exist is going to be some variation on "it depends". Personally my approach is "whatever is assessed to have the lowest risk of harm for all concerned", and I see no reason it can't just be assessed in a case by case basis. It's not as if the justice and prison system is heaving under cases like this.

[ZedLeg]

Don’t bother, Robbie doesn’t accept any answer and wilfully misinterprets anything you say.

[Gecko1978]

ZedLeg said:

In the meantime, neo nazis turn out for a rally organised by prominent terf Kelly Jay Keen (aka posey Parker) again. I’m sure they aren’t connected to the main protest though and have genuine concerns about women’s safety.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/vis...

Well if you apply logic used by HM-2 they are not representing the whole anti trans movement it's just a straw man etc etc.

To be fair seems pretty messed up if your supporters are Nazi's maybe you should re thunk your approach

[HM-2]

Gecko1978 said:

Well if you apply logic used by HM-2 they are not representing the whole anti trans movement

I don't think anyone was claiming they were representative of the whole movement. Clearly you don't seem to think so, so what you're actually saying here is "the logic used by HM-2 is logical". Glad we agree

[ZedLeg]

Gecko1978 said:

ZedLeg said:

In the meantime, neo nazis turn out for a rally organised by prominent terf Kelly Jay Keen (aka posey Parker) again. I’m sure they aren’t connected to the main protest though and have genuine concerns about women’s safety.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/vis...

Well if you apply logic used by HM-2 they are not representing the whole anti trans movement it's just a straw man etc etc.

To be fair seems pretty messed up if your supporters are Nazi's maybe you should re thunk your approach

See that’s the thing though , the “trans movement” is just people living their lives while what I’ve posted is an organised international movement. Keen is funded by conservative think tanks to run these rallies all over the world.

[Gecko1978]

HM-2 said:

Gecko1978 said:

where as Dylan told the president of the United States he represented trans people.

Ah yes, and anyone who claims they're representative of an entire group must be?

Gecko1978 said:

So when the world's most powerful man meets a trans person to discuss trans issues it's not a leap of faith to say that person is a trans representative.

I didn't say they weren't a trans representative, I said I struggled to see how they representative of trans people as a whole. A point you seem very eager to not actually address, instead composing counterarguments against things I haven't actually said. Again.

Gecko1978 said:

Troll away

Persistent straw men and misrepresentation from you, and yet you have the audacity to label me a troll. The lack of self awareness is astounding.

Gecko1978 said:

but the cause you champion has cheer leaders like Dylan an Jeffery Marsh

So you keep asserting, though on what basis I still cannot fathom.

Gecko1978 said:

crotociscsed

If you have millions of followers and your message is one topic its easy to see which cause you champion. Are you assuming Jeffery an Dylan are being supported by another group of allies.
Re it being a straw man when the president of the US meets a person to discuss a given issue I can't see how you deduced that. An of course Dylan making a claim Dylan having millions of followers and Dylan talking about 1 issue does of course not mean he is trying to represent for a group....what did discuss with Joe Biden again...

The problem you are facing is your argument for trans rights and acceptance is now weak when that group have rights that group are largely accepted like any other minority is. Its not to say its perfect or hate does not exist but society has come a long way.

What you don't seem to like is evidence (this thread topic) that shows Trans people in some circumstances are not the same as the gender they align with and some trans people might not be honest about who they are.

Anyway it's a bit circular, the powers that be decided the prisoner was "at it" to quote Humza Yousef and that's the end of it really.

[SteveStrange]

Christ this thread went mental over the weekend

[Gecko1978]

ZedLeg said:

See that’s the thing though , the “trans movement” is just people living their lives while what I’ve posted is an organised international movement. Keen is funded by conservative think tanks to run these rallies all over the world.

Slightly off topic but what I find most bizarre is how anyone could make a Nazi salute, support an ideology etc. The barbarity of ww2 and the holocaust is so beyond the pale I am always amazed anyone could think such things had any upside.

[ZedLeg]

Gecko1978 said:

ZedLeg said:

See that’s the thing though , the “trans movement” is just people living their lives while what I’ve posted is an organised international movement. Keen is funded by conservative think tanks to run these rallies all over the world.

Slightly off topic but what I find most bizarre is how anyone could make a Nazi salute, support an ideology etc. The barbarity of ww2 and the holocaust is so beyond the pale I am always amazed anyone could think such things had any upside.

It's simple, they don't view the people they hate as people. 6 million dead doesn't have a lot of meaning if you think they deserved it.

[Gecko1978]

ZedLeg said:

Gecko1978 said:

ZedLeg said:

See that’s the thing though , the “trans movement” is just people living their lives while what I’ve posted is an organised international movement. Keen is funded by conservative think tanks to run these rallies all over the world.

Slightly off topic but what I find most bizarre is how anyone could make a Nazi salute, support an ideology etc. The barbarity of ww2 and the holocaust is so beyond the pale I am always amazed anyone could think such things had any upside.

It's simple, they don't view the people they hate as people. 6 million dead doesn't have a lot of meaning if you think they deserved it.

How does one not view another person as human. I know from history lessons Nazi propaganda made out Jewish people were all sorts of bad things, the Nazi's conducted experiments to prove other races were infected not human etc. But as we know today it was all BS.

But here an now to not view someone as human to think murdering millions was ok....just bizarre

[ZedLeg]

Gecko1978 said:

How does one not view another person as human. I know from history lessons Nazi propaganda made out Jewish people were all sorts of bad things, the Nazi's conducted experiments to prove other races were infected not human etc. But as we know today it was all BS.

But here an now to not view someone as human to think murdering millions was ok....just bizarre

That's the danger of ideological radicalisation. It doesn't start as they should all be dead, but the people who are in charge of these groups are very convincing in pointing out that all your problems are "their" fault and once you're in all you see and hear is propaganda. See the whole network of "counter msm" news sites that are just propaganda clickbait.

[2xChevrons]

There have been some truly mind-boggling responses to the presence of the neo-Nazis. Several (including, as far as I can, people who are either strong supporters of the LWS march or even organisers of it) of which are along the lines of "See, even neo-Nazis want to stop The Trans Menace, so we must be right."

Such a complete lack of introspection and reflection, and a stark example of the liberal "I am a good person, therefore everything I think and do must be good" brainworms. Right to the extent of "Neo-Nazis are very bad people who therefore think and do very bad things, but if they agree with me on something then that something must be extra-double-plus-good for even Nazis to see the value in it."

Angie Jones (one of the organisers) also seems to be trying to blame the fact that Antifa groups weren't at the rally to effectively do policework to keep the fascists away, because Antifa organisations refused to collaborate with LWS. Because nothing says "strong, independent, self-actualised, powerful, feminist woman adult human female" like asking a bunch of men to fight your literal political battles for you.

Gender Critics have some really weird, reactionary and old-fashioned views about what women are and should be. Quelle surprise!

Gecko1978 said:

How does one not view another person as human. I know from history lessons Nazi propaganda made out Jewish people were all sorts of bad things, the Nazi's conducted experiments to prove other races were infected not human etc. But as we know today it was all BS.

But here an now to not view someone as human to think murdering millions was ok....just bizarre

Nazis, whether 'neo' or 'classic' variety, are/were not particularly intelligent or insightful individuals as a rule. Modern neo-Nazi groups can't even agree whether the Holocaust never happened at all (because if it had happened, that would make their historical idols so monstrous that no sane person would ever support their politics ever again) or did happen but didn't go far enough. So they often arrive at the somewhat untenable ideological position that the Holocaust absolutely didn't happen but it would have been a good thing if it had... *sigh*

As for how people can be made to dehumanise others - just look at how effective the modern media (traditional and 'social') right now are at getting otherwise rational people to view amorphous, indistinct groups as threats, stereotypes or single characteristics onto which can be pinned whatever negative traits the narrative-spinners require. The Nazis used exactly the same methods, just with the rhetoric ramped up, the perceived threat elevated and the propaganda more ever-present.

The Nazis didn't need every German person to share their wackadoodle racial 'science' theories - not even all the Nazis themselves actually, properly, believed that. They didn't even have to get 'buy in' from the majority of the German people. They just had to make the issue seemingly stark and emotionally charged enough that enough people didn't actively disagree with or reject the idea. A very common experience in the 1930s/1940s in Germany was ordinary, moderately political, non-Nazi Germans saying (in effect) "Something must be done about these rootless Jews in our society, because they spread division and communism and don't love their country. But not Mr. Abramowicz who runs the cobbler's in the village - we've known him all our lives and he's a good German. We just mean those Jews in the cities that you read about in the papers..." And that's enough for the evil true believers to get in positions of power and start their genocides.

[eharding]

ZedLeg said:

In the meantime, neo nazis turn out for a rally organised by prominent terf Kelly Jay Keen (aka posey Parker) again. I’m sure they aren’t connected to the main protest though and have genuine concerns about women’s safety.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/vis...

Wasn't Roderick Spode the leader of the Black Shorts?

[JagLover]

eharding said:

Wasn't Roderick Spode the leader of the Black Shorts?

With a side-line in designing women's lingerie.

[HM-2]

Gecko1978 said:

If you have millions of followers and your message is one topic its easy to see which cause you champion. Are you assuming Jeffery an Dylan are being supported by another group of allies.

Is this a question or a statement? I'm really struggling to understand your point here, or how it applies to anything I've said.

Gecko1978 said:

Re it being a straw man when the president of the US meets a person to discuss a given issue I can't see how you deduced that.

I don't think you understand what a "straw man" is here.

Gecko1978 said:

An of course Dylan...does of course not mean he is trying to represent for a group.

I'm glad you agree. I'm confused as to why you suggested otherwise previously, though.

Gecko1978 said:

The problem you are facing is your argument

You clearly don't know what my argument is, given that you seem to respond solely with things that aren't relevant to it.

[RobbieTheTruth]

ZedLeg said:

Don’t bother, Robbie doesn’t accept any answer and wilfully misinterprets anything you say.

Of course I do - but as just so beautify shown a few posts earlier, the people quick to scream 'transphobe' will never actually answer the question directly.

How about you?

Direct question.

That famous Scottish case recently. What prison should Isla Brayson have gone to? Male or female?



To anyone else reading. Here's what he will do. Refuse to answer, saying that we wont accept or understand the answer, or say something along the lines of 'leave it to experts' - instead of just answering his opinion.

[Rufus Stone]

RobbieTheTruth said:

Of course I do - but as just so beautify shown a few posts earlier, the people quick to scream 'transphobe' will never actually answer the question directly.

How about you?

Direct question.

That famous Scottish case recently. What prison should Isla Brayson have gone to? Male or female?



To anyone else reading. Here's what he will do. Refuse to answer, saying that we wont accept or understand the answer, or say something along the lines of 'leave it to experts' - instead of just answering his opinion.

If I remember correctly, Zed was happy for him to be sent to a female prison pending further assessment.