Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4
Discussion
Biggy Stardust said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
https://t.me/grey_zone/17874
....and having complained about the dollar being the work currency Russians are coming to terms with the realization they are trading in yen from now on.
Deep down they are well aware China are going to be worse for Russia than the decadent West. They know.
I thought the Yen was more widely used in Japan?....and having complained about the dollar being the work currency Russians are coming to terms with the realization they are trading in yen from now on.
Deep down they are well aware China are going to be worse for Russia than the decadent West. They know.
Digga said:
As for the awareness of educated, wealthy Russians, to the games and corruption played by Putin, I have no doubt many know. Having just finished watching the BBC documentary about opposition leader Navalny I can see both the support for democracy and opposition, as well as the explicit realisation of the corruption at play.
It makes even more sense, knowing this, of the great efforts to protect the elite cities from the worst attritional effects of the conscription.
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the s
t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.
And everyone thought that Xi Jin Ping was going to help Russia.It makes even more sense, knowing this, of the great efforts to protect the elite cities from the worst attritional effects of the conscription.
Xi may well have played a blinder. His refusal to help (and the s
t agricultural deal) may be the final nail for Putin within Russia.Perhaps only a few on here knew just how smart the Chinese really are.
Russia have only just started giving away territory control, this I see is the thin edge of the wedge.
mondeoman said:
WestyCarl said:
AlexIT said:
As I wrote in the early months of the war, China will (economically) walk over the corpse of russia -or what's going to remain of it after all of this-.
That's not going to be good at all for us: we will have China right at our front door from then on and either we (EU and UK) take some serious measures or we will slowly but surely be the next to fall to China's economic expansion: first the less powerful nations -see what's happened already in Montenegro*- and then all others.
China will be the winners in this when it all shakes out in a few years, they are siding with Russia to keep this conflict going as long as possible to keep the instability going in the EU.That's not going to be good at all for us: we will have China right at our front door from then on and either we (EU and UK) take some serious measures or we will slowly but surely be the next to fall to China's economic expansion: first the less powerful nations -see what's happened already in Montenegro*- and then all others.
As an added benefit they will leverage their position to access all the useful Russian resources and territory.
Register1 said:
mondeoman said:
WestyCarl said:
AlexIT said:
As I wrote in the early months of the war, China will (economically) walk over the corpse of russia -or what's going to remain of it after all of this-.
That's not going to be good at all for us: we will have China right at our front door from then on and either we (EU and UK) take some serious measures or we will slowly but surely be the next to fall to China's economic expansion: first the less powerful nations -see what's happened already in Montenegro*- and then all others.
China will be the winners in this when it all shakes out in a few years, they are siding with Russia to keep this conflict going as long as possible to keep the instability going in the EU.That's not going to be good at all for us: we will have China right at our front door from then on and either we (EU and UK) take some serious measures or we will slowly but surely be the next to fall to China's economic expansion: first the less powerful nations -see what's happened already in Montenegro*- and then all others.
As an added benefit they will leverage their position to access all the useful Russian resources and territory.
If western companies have automated production then why would they site it in China?
spookly said:
Their whole relevance to date economically has been cheap labour. Automation of production + a desire to reduce environmental impact would mean they'd lose production for the west.
If western companies have automated production then why would they site it in China?
This.If western companies have automated production then why would they site it in China?
If your USP is cheap labour then Automation doesn't help you, highly automated production doesn't require cheap labour.
Having said that, China will always be a massive economy despite the demographic cliff edge. It's been the world's biggest economy for 22 of the last 25 centuries.
Of course China is famous for manipulating it's currency, so any nation that was looking to use their own (medium sized) economy to help promote it is sure to get their fingers sting badly. (....and already has)
sisu said:
Digga said:
I agree with you on your last point.
I tend to disagree somewhat on the former. China does not see or use its currency as an economic tool. It is used as an internal, political tool. Witness the 'employment' created by the 'investment' in ghost cities, encouraged and bankrolled by both local and national government. they need the jobs, all of them, even if demographically they will begin to struggle to sustain what they have.
The Ghost cities are more of an internal pyramid scheme. No one owns land in China you lease it, no one pays tax or rates either. The source of income to local council tax is thru the building on top. Hence the rail to no where and buildings with no one in them. Now leases are up I tend to disagree somewhat on the former. China does not see or use its currency as an economic tool. It is used as an internal, political tool. Witness the 'employment' created by the 'investment' in ghost cities, encouraged and bankrolled by both local and national government. they need the jobs, all of them, even if demographically they will begin to struggle to sustain what they have.
I get the feeling that Russia needs China and this meeting that should have been an email was just a photo op. China has Russia in its pocket, but if China is spooked by Russia or anything reflecting badly, then who are they going to buy and sell from?
Look to more parts of Russia going under Chinas administration as long as Putin gets to keep his palace, Moscow and St Petersburg slavic. Putin also needs to pivot away from the War at some point and Chinese money paying people is a success if you tell them its because you are winning.
Just not as heavily taxed as most countries.
The tax burden falls more on companies.
Ask me, I know.
Register1 said:
They develop machines to do the labour produce.
China has not used currency as an economic tool. It used it as a political one to create full employment, in as large a territory as possible.It did not channel capital into investment in plant, machinery and technology to increase productivity.
minimoog said:
Cheib said:
if China were going to give them weapons it needs to be now because in three months Ukraine will have new MBT’s and AFV’s rolling.
Not a problem - the T54s are on their way!
Percy Cushion said:
Interesting words. BikeBikeBIke said:
myvision said:
I'm far from convinced that 50pc of Wagner convicts are seeing out their 6 months without being wounded. Seems closer to 90pc casualties. 
Maybe 50pc are being invalided home.
There is also a sampling bias in that the Wagner soldiers we hear about are the ones doing recon by force missions in Bakhmut which have met heavy resistance.
We don't hear about the people manning sections of the defensive lines, doing force protection for other support units. We don't see videos of the attacks which were successful because the Ukrainians didn't deploy a drone and get artillery down (no videos). We don't see the guys who weren't in the open when the shooting started who returned fired and then slipped away to fight another day.
I've got no doubt that Wagner convicts suffer high casualty rates but we do have to question certain elements of the story about them being used as cannon fodder.
They are still people, they are crims and they are equipped with guns. Ergo you can get them to do dangerous things but you still have to use the same physiological tricks (group cohesion, "fair" sharing of the risks, some hope of getting out alive) that get regular soldiers to fighter. Otherwise the non convict Wagner personnel are going to be living day to day with armed desperados with poor impulse control.
If you actually are going to send people on pure suicide missions then you need to supervise them at max security prison staff to prisoner ratios which will again actually limit how many of them you can send to their deaths at any one time.
sisu said:
The tank to tank combat kill in 1991 at 5.1 miles against a T54 with a depleted uranium shell.
Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.
Could be possible, the UK military help to UKR does not only mean Challenger tanks,Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.
but also DU ammo, which is quite controversially discussed amongst medics and defense suppliers.
Benni said:
sisu said:
The tank to tank combat kill in 1991 at 5.1 miles against a T54 with a depleted uranium shell.
Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.
Could be possible, the UK military help to UKR does not only mean Challenger tanks,Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.
but also DU ammo, which is quite controversially discussed amongst medics and defense suppliers.
sisu said:
Benni said:
sisu said:
The tank to tank combat kill in 1991 at 5.1 miles against a T54 with a depleted uranium shell.
Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.
Could be possible, the UK military help to UKR does not only mean Challenger tanks,Could the Ukrainians have a hold my beer moment this Summer?
I know a tank is better than no tank, but this would be a nice scalp to get.
but also DU ammo, which is quite controversially discussed amongst medics and defense suppliers.
TBF no medical doctor worth their hippocratic oath is going to approve of any sort of weaponry or ordnance, full stop.
Talksteer said:
The KIA rate for the British Army was ~10% over the 4 years of WWI. The Red Army lost about 8 million out of 34 million who served in WWII which again was a much longer conflict and the numbers are skewed by the Germans killing most of the POWs.
There is also a sampling bias in that the Wagner soldiers we hear about are the ones doing recon by force missions in Bakhmut which have met heavy resistance.
We don't hear about the people manning sections of the defensive lines, doing force protection for other support units. We don't see videos of the attacks which were successful because the Ukrainians didn't deploy a drone and get artillery down (no videos). We don't see the guys who weren't in the open when the shooting started who returned fired and then slipped away to fight another day.
I've got no doubt that Wagner convicts suffer high casualty rates but we do have to question certain elements of the story about them being used as cannon fodder.
They are still people, they are crims and they are equipped with guns. Ergo you can get them to do dangerous things but you still have to use the same physiological tricks (group cohesion, "fair" sharing of the risks, some hope of getting out alive) that get regular soldiers to fighter. Otherwise the non convict Wagner personnel are going to be living day to day with armed desperados with poor impulse control.
If you actually are going to send people on pure suicide missions then you need to supervise them at max security prison staff to prisoner ratios which will again actually limit how many of them you can send to their deaths at any one time.
No quarrel with any of that. I got the impression the prisoners were used as disposable assault troops while the safer support jobs went to others. I guess we don't know that as a fact.There is also a sampling bias in that the Wagner soldiers we hear about are the ones doing recon by force missions in Bakhmut which have met heavy resistance.
We don't hear about the people manning sections of the defensive lines, doing force protection for other support units. We don't see videos of the attacks which were successful because the Ukrainians didn't deploy a drone and get artillery down (no videos). We don't see the guys who weren't in the open when the shooting started who returned fired and then slipped away to fight another day.
I've got no doubt that Wagner convicts suffer high casualty rates but we do have to question certain elements of the story about them being used as cannon fodder.
They are still people, they are crims and they are equipped with guns. Ergo you can get them to do dangerous things but you still have to use the same physiological tricks (group cohesion, "fair" sharing of the risks, some hope of getting out alive) that get regular soldiers to fighter. Otherwise the non convict Wagner personnel are going to be living day to day with armed desperados with poor impulse control.
If you actually are going to send people on pure suicide missions then you need to supervise them at max security prison staff to prisoner ratios which will again actually limit how many of them you can send to their deaths at any one time.
A quick Google suggests less than 50pc casualties within prisoners within Wagner, so seems you're likely right. Large numbers of violent nutters have been turbo charged and then released onto the streets of Russia.
He's back.. and threatening nuclear attack again.. Solovyov the comedian
https://youtu.be/l6fSSYDrhFU
https://youtu.be/l6fSSYDrhFU
sisu said:
Depleted means it does not have any more Radioactivity. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. Yes if you ingest it you will get sick, much like eating a remote control battery will kill you. But so will lead.
depleted uranium has less radioactivity not that it does not have any more radioactivity....DrDeAtH said:
He's back.. and threatening nuclear attack again.. Solovyov the comedian
https://youtu.be/l6fSSYDrhFU
"The West are the same as us, there is no freedom there is no democracy" --- and the Tankies lap that up.https://youtu.be/l6fSSYDrhFU
isaldiri said:
sisu said:
Depleted means it does not have any more Radioactivity. It is a very dense metal one and a half more than than lead, they used it in F1 as ballast. Yes if you ingest it you will get sick, much like eating a remote control battery will kill you. But so will lead.
depleted uranium has less radioactivity not that it does not have any more radioactivity....Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff