Services that you cannot access despite being entitled
Discussion
NHS dentistry has long been a service that is part of the postcode lottery. As taxpayers we're all paying for that service but unless you are lucky to be looking for an NHS dentist at the precise moment an NHS dentist in your area has openings then you are SOOL.
Now the government has announced a load of funding for childcare. Great, but I know even the crap nurseries in my area have an 18 month waiting list. There's simply no places in my town, or any of the towns within 15 miles. So it's not going to get anyone back to work, it's just going to help people already at work.
I suppose my question is, what are you supposed to do when you pay into the system your whole adult life, you are offered x, y and z but there simply is no way to access these services? It's maddening!
Now the government has announced a load of funding for childcare. Great, but I know even the crap nurseries in my area have an 18 month waiting list. There's simply no places in my town, or any of the towns within 15 miles. So it's not going to get anyone back to work, it's just going to help people already at work.
I suppose my question is, what are you supposed to do when you pay into the system your whole adult life, you are offered x, y and z but there simply is no way to access these services? It's maddening!
The usual argument to anything here is move.
It's market based isn't it that dentists decide to go private? My dentist, who was formerly Harley Street but move out to Essex only lasted a few years before the draw of money pulled her back in as private. Luckily I could switch to another but my practice no more NHS places.
It's market based isn't it that dentists decide to go private? My dentist, who was formerly Harley Street but move out to Essex only lasted a few years before the draw of money pulled her back in as private. Luckily I could switch to another but my practice no more NHS places.
I think you have a profound misunderstanding of how the system works.
There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
Ridgemont said:
And as far as nursery places go… I don’t want to call bulls
t but where do you live? Cumbria? There are 3 providers within 2 miles of here (Northants) and there are spaces.
I'm sure there are spaces but what is the waiting list time at those three nurseries? The places exist, provided you sign up immediately after you complete the act of copulation. 18 months waiting list round here... Most people I know plan 6 or 9 months maternity leave. Some plan 12. You don't even know you are really pregnant until a couple of months in.t but where do you live? Cumbria? There are 3 providers within 2 miles of here (Northants) and there are spaces.Are there people literally having the "we would make amazing parents and should definitely start a family" conversation and then securing a place before she even comes off the pill?
Ridgemont said:
I think you have a profound misunderstanding of how the system works.
There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
No misunderstanding here. The National Health Service is a health service, that is nationalised. It's not unreasonable to expect the government to deliver nationalised services (in the case of dentistry). There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
Road builders are contractors paid from your taxes... Imagine if you and your townsfolk all pay your taxes and the government said "well we'd love to help but there's no road builders in the area... You're going to need to pay for helicopters to get from your town to anywhere else, despite the fact that we used to have roads there."
donkmeister said:
Ridgemont said:
And as far as nursery places go… I don’t want to call bullst but where do you live? Cumbria? There are 3 providers within 2 miles of here (Northants) and there are spaces.
I'm sure there are spaces but what is the waiting list time at those three nurseries? The places exist, provided you sign up immediately after you complete the act of copulation. 18 months waiting list round here... Most people I know plan 6 or 9 months maternity leave. Some plan 12. You don't even know you are really pregnant until a couple of months in.t but where do you live? Cumbria? There are 3 providers within 2 miles of here (Northants) and there are spaces.Are there people literally having the "we would make amazing parents and should definitely start a family" conversation and then securing a place before she even comes off the pill?
donkmeister said:
Ridgemont said:
I think you have a profound misunderstanding of how the system works.
There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
No misunderstanding here. The National Health Service is a health service, that is nationalised. It's not unreasonable to expect the government to deliver nationalised services (in the case of dentistry). There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
Road builders are contractors paid from your taxes... Imagine if you and your townsfolk all pay your taxes and the government said "well we'd love to help but there's no road builders in the area... You're going to need to pay for helicopters to get from your town to anywhere else, despite the fact that we used to have roads there."
Ridgemont said:
donkmeister said:
Ridgemont said:
I think you have a profound misunderstanding of how the system works.
There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
No misunderstanding here. The National Health Service is a health service, that is nationalised. It's not unreasonable to expect the government to deliver nationalised services (in the case of dentistry). There are service providers. Some given funding by government some by private directly.
There is not however an entitlement to that service provider.
The government doesn’t stand up extra resources in a local area because of a shortfall of places. That would be mad. All it can do is ensure that funding is available but unsurprisingly right now there is a massive shortfall in the actual skilled resources who are prepared to set up a service. This isn’t unique to childcare or dentistry.
Road builders are contractors paid from your taxes... Imagine if you and your townsfolk all pay your taxes and the government said "well we'd love to help but there's no road builders in the area... You're going to need to pay for helicopters to get from your town to anywhere else, despite the fact that we used to have roads there."
You are a taxpayer, you pay NI and taxes. That covers, amongst other things, the National Health Service. The NHS is a government entity. It's a nationalised service. We are paying for a service, whether it is delivered by private companies contracted by the NHS or whether it is delivered directly by NHS staff and facilities is immaterial. So, when there are not sufficient service providers in an area, the NHS (i.e. the government) should be building capacity and then providing it. You and I as taxpayers are agnostic of who is the direct employer of the person we physically interact with, all we care is that we get the services we are paying for.
To go back to my roads example, you don't care whether a road was built by a contractor or if the HA sent a team of HA employees to build it - you pay your taxes, you get a road.
donkmeister said:
No, as I said no misunderstanding here, you are questioning the wrong thing.
You are a taxpayer, you pay NI and taxes. That covers, amongst other things, the National Health Service. The NHS is a government entity. It's a nationalised service. We are paying for a service, whether it is delivered by private companies contracted by the NHS or whether it is delivered directly by NHS staff and facilities is immaterial. So, when there are not sufficient service providers in an area, the NHS (i.e. the government) should be building capacity and then providing it. You and I as taxpayers are agnostic of who is the direct employer of the person we physically interact with, all we care is that we get the services we are paying for.
To go back to my roads example, you don't care whether a road was built by a contractor or if the HA sent a team of HA employees to build it - you pay your taxes, you get a road.
Good grief. You aren’t understanding.You are a taxpayer, you pay NI and taxes. That covers, amongst other things, the National Health Service. The NHS is a government entity. It's a nationalised service. We are paying for a service, whether it is delivered by private companies contracted by the NHS or whether it is delivered directly by NHS staff and facilities is immaterial. So, when there are not sufficient service providers in an area, the NHS (i.e. the government) should be building capacity and then providing it. You and I as taxpayers are agnostic of who is the direct employer of the person we physically interact with, all we care is that we get the services we are paying for.
To go back to my roads example, you don't care whether a road was built by a contractor or if the HA sent a team of HA employees to build it - you pay your taxes, you get a road.
It’s quite simple:
Medical practices (dental or general) or nursery groups or whatever you might have imagined is ‘NHS’ and therefore yours by right are not. Hospitals via trusts for example *are* as well as things like ambulance services as well as any number of general public health services. Dentistry and nurseries are emphatically not. They *may* specialise in NHS contracts but that doesn’t mean they are the NHS.
General and Dental Practices alongside other services like nursery are not some kind of government provision. They are practices that provide a service to consumers while being sometimes subsidised by the government to do so.
The government can’t wave a wand and command more practices into existence (though that is largely the argument of the BMA nowadays via massive pay increases) as these are self organising practices not government outposts.
Ridgemont said:
donkmeister said:
No, as I said no misunderstanding here, you are questioning the wrong thing.
You are a taxpayer, you pay NI and taxes. That covers, amongst other things, the National Health Service. The NHS is a government entity. It's a nationalised service. We are paying for a service, whether it is delivered by private companies contracted by the NHS or whether it is delivered directly by NHS staff and facilities is immaterial. So, when there are not sufficient service providers in an area, the NHS (i.e. the government) should be building capacity and then providing it. You and I as taxpayers are agnostic of who is the direct employer of the person we physically interact with, all we care is that we get the services we are paying for.
To go back to my roads example, you don't care whether a road was built by a contractor or if the HA sent a team of HA employees to build it - you pay your taxes, you get a road.
Good grief. You aren’t understanding.You are a taxpayer, you pay NI and taxes. That covers, amongst other things, the National Health Service. The NHS is a government entity. It's a nationalised service. We are paying for a service, whether it is delivered by private companies contracted by the NHS or whether it is delivered directly by NHS staff and facilities is immaterial. So, when there are not sufficient service providers in an area, the NHS (i.e. the government) should be building capacity and then providing it. You and I as taxpayers are agnostic of who is the direct employer of the person we physically interact with, all we care is that we get the services we are paying for.
To go back to my roads example, you don't care whether a road was built by a contractor or if the HA sent a team of HA employees to build it - you pay your taxes, you get a road.
It’s quite simple:
Medical practices (dental or general) or nursery groups or whatever you might have imagined is ‘NHS’ and therefore yours by right are not. Hospitals via trusts for example *are* as well as things like ambulance services as well as any number of general public health services. Dentistry and nurseries are emphatically not. They *may* specialise in NHS contracts but that doesn’t mean they are the NHS.
General and Dental Practices alongside other services like nursery are not some kind of government provision. They are practices that provide a service to consumers while being sometimes subsidised by the government to do so.
The government can’t wave a wand and command more practices into existence (though that is largely the argument of the BMA nowadays via massive pay increases) as these are self organising practices not government outposts.
I'm not suggesting that a particular dental surgery is "mine by rights". I'm stating that as we are all paying for NHS services to be available (note... Services. Not "Mr Smith the Dentist down the road") then NHS services should be available to all.
I can't put it any more clearly than that, if you still don't understand the point then I cannot help you understand it.
donkmeister said:
Dude... You are either expertly trolling OR you have serious issues with comprehension. My entire post history here is about service provision. The title of the thread is even "services that you cannot access..."
I'm not suggesting that a particular dental surgery is "mine by rights". I'm stating that as we are all paying for NHS services to be available (note... Services. Not "Mr Smith the Dentist down the road") then NHS services should be available to all.
I can't put it any more clearly than that, if you still don't understand the point then I cannot help you understand it.
I give up. I’ll just leave it with a simple ‘have you considered going private’?I'm not suggesting that a particular dental surgery is "mine by rights". I'm stating that as we are all paying for NHS services to be available (note... Services. Not "Mr Smith the Dentist down the road") then NHS services should be available to all.
I can't put it any more clearly than that, if you still don't understand the point then I cannot help you understand it.
Ridgemont said:
donkmeister said:
Dude... You are either expertly trolling OR you have serious issues with comprehension. My entire post history here is about service provision. The title of the thread is even "services that you cannot access..."
I'm not suggesting that a particular dental surgery is "mine by rights". I'm stating that as we are all paying for NHS services to be available (note... Services. Not "Mr Smith the Dentist down the road") then NHS services should be available to all.
I can't put it any more clearly than that, if you still don't understand the point then I cannot help you understand it.
I give up. I’ll just leave it with a simple ‘have you considered going private’?I'm not suggesting that a particular dental surgery is "mine by rights". I'm stating that as we are all paying for NHS services to be available (note... Services. Not "Mr Smith the Dentist down the road") then NHS services should be available to all.
I can't put it any more clearly than that, if you still don't understand the point then I cannot help you understand it.
Excellent trolling, top class, I'll leave it there.
donkmeister said:
Ridgemont said:
And one last time.
THEY AREN’T NHS SERVICES.
Jeez.
Yes, they bloody well are.THEY AREN’T NHS SERVICES.
Jeez.
You clearly don't know the difference between a service and a service provider. The service is the whole point of every post here. Not the service providers.
FFS
https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/how-do-gps-fit-...
GPs/DPs whatever are not employed by the NHS. They are independent and not part of what ‘you pay your taxes for and have a right’.
Neverminding your insane view that government ought to be taking over child care. Sure start was as close as it got to that.
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