Plumbing question - smells
Discussion
Firstly forgive me if I don’t get back to this until tonight but I’m literally on my way out of the door.
When we bought this house 4 years ago it had been empty for a few months. As soon as I opened the front door I could smell something. It seemed to be coming from the en suite bathroom and I naively assumed at the time it was because it hadn’t been used and was dry.
How wrong was I.
4 years in, we changed the dirgo valve and for a while thought it was cured. It was not.
Put a vent on the boxing of the dirgo. Didn’t help. Had a plumber in who couldn’t see anything obvious and confirmed the toilet seal was fine. Most recently replaced the trap on the shower and that seemed to work….. until 4am this morning when the smell was so bad through the open door it woke me up with a headache.
I’m at my wits end now. Husband has commented that he thinks the smell is worse when it rains, and it did belt down here both yesterday and today.
Weirdly, the main bathroom isn’t affected by the smell but the front downstairs loo is very occasionally and not especially pungent.
The other weird, which could be completely my imagination, is one Sunday when i scraped the remains of a Sunday lunch into the waste disposal I could have sworn I could smell it in the en suite.
I kept a diary for ages of weather, plumbing use, waste disposal use etc and I can’t find a link.
Any suggestions where on earth I go from here and is it as I fear an expensive external cracked pipe job?
Ta
When we bought this house 4 years ago it had been empty for a few months. As soon as I opened the front door I could smell something. It seemed to be coming from the en suite bathroom and I naively assumed at the time it was because it hadn’t been used and was dry.
How wrong was I.
4 years in, we changed the dirgo valve and for a while thought it was cured. It was not.
Put a vent on the boxing of the dirgo. Didn’t help. Had a plumber in who couldn’t see anything obvious and confirmed the toilet seal was fine. Most recently replaced the trap on the shower and that seemed to work….. until 4am this morning when the smell was so bad through the open door it woke me up with a headache.
I’m at my wits end now. Husband has commented that he thinks the smell is worse when it rains, and it did belt down here both yesterday and today.
Weirdly, the main bathroom isn’t affected by the smell but the front downstairs loo is very occasionally and not especially pungent.
The other weird, which could be completely my imagination, is one Sunday when i scraped the remains of a Sunday lunch into the waste disposal I could have sworn I could smell it in the en suite.
I kept a diary for ages of weather, plumbing use, waste disposal use etc and I can’t find a link.
Any suggestions where on earth I go from here and is it as I fear an expensive external cracked pipe job?
Ta
It's possible something is causing low pressure (partial vacuum) in the waste pipes which pulls water out of the U-bends. Once there's no water there any smell from sewers can make its way back into the house.
This can be caused by a blocked drain. Or by a blocked air vent.
You say a durgo (air valve) has already been been replaced, so it's all a bit odd. I think you'll need to lift covers, trace drains and find out what's going on.
This can be caused by a blocked drain. Or by a blocked air vent.
You say a durgo (air valve) has already been been replaced, so it's all a bit odd. I think you'll need to lift covers, trace drains and find out what's going on.
Interested to see the answers here as we have a very similar situation. Smells come from the en-suite, downstairs WC and kitchen waste. No smells from the main bathroom but that uses a separate waste stack/feed in to the main drain.
All the waste traps are full of water at all times, and have never been able to pin it down to any particular usage/weather.
The smell always seems to be a general smell in each of those rooms - never been able to pin it down to the toilet/sink/shower tray specifically
All the waste traps are full of water at all times, and have never been able to pin it down to any particular usage/weather.
The smell always seems to be a general smell in each of those rooms - never been able to pin it down to the toilet/sink/shower tray specifically
Thanks Panamax.
I did cover the shower drain and when it was had very little smell, hence we changed the trap. It could be coincidence but I’ll try that again as well as your other suggestions.
I’ve crawled around the room on my hands and knees sniffing everything which was fun but can’t find an exact source. Husband has just pointed out that when I had a clear out of my spice cupboard down the waste disposal he could smell that on the en suite as well.
I’ll get the manholes up over the weekend and jet them through, we’ve done this a few times over the years but never been smell free for longer than a few months.
I did cover the shower drain and when it was had very little smell, hence we changed the trap. It could be coincidence but I’ll try that again as well as your other suggestions.
I’ve crawled around the room on my hands and knees sniffing everything which was fun but can’t find an exact source. Husband has just pointed out that when I had a clear out of my spice cupboard down the waste disposal he could smell that on the en suite as well.
I’ll get the manholes up over the weekend and jet them through, we’ve done this a few times over the years but never been smell free for longer than a few months.
Hopefully it isn't this, but we had a cracked soil pipe under concrete in the kitchen. It's an old house with many bad design ideas and bodges not least the obscure routing of pipework and the concreted ground floor.
Fingers crossed you don't have the same issue. I didn't enjoy dealing with it.
Fingers crossed you don't have the same issue. I didn't enjoy dealing with it.
SistersofPercy said:
until 4am this morning when the smell was so bad through the open door it woke me up with a headache.
Sewer gasses can be poisonous. Worth getting someone in to trace/fix it.https://www.healthline.com/health/healthy-home-gui...
Do you have a little more detail on the design please?
Is it a modern house?
From your post, you have a downstairs WC, an upstairs bathroom and an ensuite?
Is the shower in the ensuite?
Does the ensuite sit above downstairs WC (so share the same vent)
Does the ensuite sit above the kitchen (so share the same vent)
Do the kitchen/wc/bathroom/ensuite share the same vent?
Which room has the durgo?
Are any other stacks outside or boxed and vent through the roof?
Is it a modern house?
From your post, you have a downstairs WC, an upstairs bathroom and an ensuite?
Is the shower in the ensuite?
Does the ensuite sit above downstairs WC (so share the same vent)
Does the ensuite sit above the kitchen (so share the same vent)
Do the kitchen/wc/bathroom/ensuite share the same vent?
Which room has the durgo?
Are any other stacks outside or boxed and vent through the roof?
My bet is the smell "comes from the trap" but the problem "isn't the trap".
Time to get the professionals in. They'll probably get it sorted in no time. Hopefully. Even if it turns out to be something awkward/expensive at least you'll know what it is as opposed to just guessing.
Drains can be smelly/unpleasant but at the end of the day they aren't complicated.
Time to get the professionals in. They'll probably get it sorted in no time. Hopefully. Even if it turns out to be something awkward/expensive at least you'll know what it is as opposed to just guessing.
Drains can be smelly/unpleasant but at the end of the day they aren't complicated.
Thank you all for your input so far, especially about the sewer gas link. Other half has been a bit blasé over it the last few years and I've finally cracked because it's driving me mad, he doesn't use that room, preferring the main bathroom so I can understand why it doesn't bother him as much as it does me.
To answer some questions, the shower trap we changed about a month ago and had been smell free until yesterday. New tap retains water and it's the shower I use daily so it's not drying out. Trap on the sink is also fairly new, tellingly the pedestal sealant has been cut and is freestanding from the sink so I suspect someone replaced the trap there before we moved in, in an attempt to track down the smell. Other questions:
Is it a modern house?
Ish yes, it was built in 2000.
From your post, you have a downstairs WC, an upstairs bathroom and an ensuite?
Correct, yes. Downstairs WC is directly underneath upstairs en suite and shares the same stack I assume. Main bathroom is to the back of the house.
Is the shower in the ensuite?
It is and is a cubicle shower. There is a secondary over bath shower in the main bathroom. We've never had a smell in this room.
Does the ensuite sit above downstairs WC (so share the same vent)
It does. The stack pipe comes down from the en suite through the downstairs loo. We have had a very slight smell in here occasionally, but nothing compared to the en suite.
Does the ensuite sit above the kitchen (so share the same vent)
No, the kitchen is at the back of the house, en suite and downstairs loo at the front.
Do the kitchen/wc/bathroom/ensuite share the same vent?
I dont believe so, I do have the original house design plans somewhere so might be able to find a plumbing plan
Which room has the durgo?
This is in the corner in the en suite.
Are any other stacks outside or boxed and vent through the roof?
There's a soil stack at the head of the drain on the outside of the house that vents to outside air. This stack serves a bath, wc and whb at first floor level. The drains run around the building. The en-suite has a stub stack with an air admittance valve (durgo) that connects into the drain run. Connected to the stub stack is a wc, shower and whb at first floor and a wc and whb at ground floor level.
Photo from the sales stuff. The box with the white lid houses the durgo. It had a sealed wooden top initially. We were told at one point this needed air flow so put a vent into the top. Sadly made no difference whatsoever
.
House layout. Kitchen sink and Waste Disposal is under the window where the grey square is:
To answer some questions, the shower trap we changed about a month ago and had been smell free until yesterday. New tap retains water and it's the shower I use daily so it's not drying out. Trap on the sink is also fairly new, tellingly the pedestal sealant has been cut and is freestanding from the sink so I suspect someone replaced the trap there before we moved in, in an attempt to track down the smell. Other questions:
Is it a modern house?
Ish yes, it was built in 2000.
From your post, you have a downstairs WC, an upstairs bathroom and an ensuite?
Correct, yes. Downstairs WC is directly underneath upstairs en suite and shares the same stack I assume. Main bathroom is to the back of the house.
Is the shower in the ensuite?
It is and is a cubicle shower. There is a secondary over bath shower in the main bathroom. We've never had a smell in this room.
Does the ensuite sit above downstairs WC (so share the same vent)
It does. The stack pipe comes down from the en suite through the downstairs loo. We have had a very slight smell in here occasionally, but nothing compared to the en suite.
Does the ensuite sit above the kitchen (so share the same vent)
No, the kitchen is at the back of the house, en suite and downstairs loo at the front.
Do the kitchen/wc/bathroom/ensuite share the same vent?
I dont believe so, I do have the original house design plans somewhere so might be able to find a plumbing plan
Which room has the durgo?
This is in the corner in the en suite.
Are any other stacks outside or boxed and vent through the roof?
There's a soil stack at the head of the drain on the outside of the house that vents to outside air. This stack serves a bath, wc and whb at first floor level. The drains run around the building. The en-suite has a stub stack with an air admittance valve (durgo) that connects into the drain run. Connected to the stub stack is a wc, shower and whb at first floor and a wc and whb at ground floor level.
Photo from the sales stuff. The box with the white lid houses the durgo. It had a sealed wooden top initially. We were told at one point this needed air flow so put a vent into the top. Sadly made no difference whatsoever
.
House layout. Kitchen sink and Waste Disposal is under the window where the grey square is:
Panamax said:
My bet is the smell "comes from the trap" but the problem "isn't the trap".
Time to get the professionals in. They'll probably get it sorted in no time. Hopefully. Even if it turns out to be something awkward/expensive at least you'll know what it is as opposed to just guessing.
Drains can be smelly/unpleasant but at the end of the day they aren't complicated.
I think thats where we're at now. We did have a plumber in last year who discovered the durgo wasn't pushed down properly in the boxing. He did it, 2 minute job and initially refused payment until I insisted on giving him £20. It worked, and again for a while we were really hopeful it had solved the issues.Time to get the professionals in. They'll probably get it sorted in no time. Hopefully. Even if it turns out to be something awkward/expensive at least you'll know what it is as opposed to just guessing.
Drains can be smelly/unpleasant but at the end of the day they aren't complicated.
What worries me is we have a bit of a natural pond (more of a lake) right outside the house, so I can imagine any ground works would be hugely expensive, but you're right, we can keep guessing like this forever and a day. It needs sorting.
Wr had this in our new house for about a year. Turned out to be a split in the toilet waste where it went through the wall. The gases were escaping through the split and collecting in the gap between the walls. When the wind blew it would find it's way out and it could appear almost anywhere in the rooms below the toilet. It was pure chance we found it.
Everything you're saying suggests something simple, but awkward. I'd rather spend ££ getting someone who knows what they're doing than carry on replacing parts and facing the nightmare of disrupting tiles etc. I truly believe a competent drainage guy would have it nailed in short order. Not a bathroom fitter; someone who understands drains.
Road2Ruin said:
Wr had this in our new house for about a year. Turned out to be a split in the toilet waste where it went through the wall. The gases were escaping through the split and collecting in the gap between the walls. When the wind blew it would find it's way out and it could appear almost anywhere in the rooms below the toilet. It was pure chance we found it.
Interesting you should say that. In my very exciting plumbing diary I'd covered most weather elements, use of washer, hose, dishwasher, waste disposal etc. I did not add wind into this. It was extremely windy here last night.Panamax said:
Everything you're saying suggests something simple, but awkward. I'd rather spend ££ getting someone who knows what they're doing than carry on replacing parts and facing the nightmare of disrupting tiles etc. I truly believe a competent drainage guy would have it nailed in short order. Not a bathroom fitter; someone who understands drains.
Absolutely. Bless the other half I love him dearly but he does want to try and sort stuff himself before admitting defeat and I've had to really get firm over this now and put my foot down. Happy wife happy life and all that 
Anyway, plumber will be called in the morning.
I shall update because it might well come in useful looking at how many of you have had similar issues.
SistersofPercy said:
in the past have put a hose in by the house and washed everything through, can confirm it's always run quite freely.
If you leave one of the covers closest to your house propped open (even a quarter of an inch), does it stop the smell in your house? I'm laying a 50:50 bet that it does.(The point here is that when you have the cover open and stick your hosepipe down there isn't a problem. But as soon as you close the cover there is because the air movement changes. I'm not a drainage expert but I've spent more than a few minutes with my head under inspection covers and fishing around with garden implements.....)
Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff