World Athletics transgender women ban

[Gecko1978]

Rufus Stone said:

Gecko1978 said:

No worries at all buddy. This debate is much more fun when we don't go for the cheap laugh (gotcha) but it's a little harder then you have to be precise with words.

I liked Chrismatha response "yes a trans women can". It feels ok to say that as you are defining a positive without any negative

Yes there is a negative.

That answer means a woman can't, which clashes with the belief that some hold that trans women are women.

It depends I use term women to mean Cis. I don't like the term Cis I find it offensive like a co-op of accepted usage to then define another thing under that banner I may nit agree with. So trans women can but don't always, women that is Cis can't but you wouldn't say all trans women have penises because it's not accurate

[Rufus Stone]

ZedLeg said:

You mean like the one Rufus tried there?

Just pointing out the incompatibility of the proposed reply to the question.

[chrispmartha]

Rufus Stone said:

ZedLeg said:

You mean like the one Rufus tried there?

Just pointing out the incompatibility of the proposed reply to the question.

And I disagree its incompatible.

You can use a qualifier before the word woman and it will still mean you think they are a woman.

[Gargamel]

chrispmartha said:

What's wrong with that answer?

I can just about see the fence post sticking out of his arse...

Good to have an 'open converstaion' for most people, not a great look if you are trying ot be the next PM though. You actually need to stand for something at some point, people want to know why they should vote for you and what you'd do and what you believe.

Saying you'd like to talk about it, bit like inviting your builder round for a chat, means nothing useful is getting done.

[Rufus Stone]

chrispmartha said:

And I disagree its incompatible.

You can use a qualifier before the word woman and it will still mean you think they are a woman.

Only if you want to have your cake and eat it.

[chrispmartha]

Rufus Stone said:

chrispmartha said:

And I disagree its incompatible.

You can use a qualifier before the word woman and it will still mean you think they are a woman.

Only if you want to have your cake and eat it.

Not really, have a think about it.

A Homosexual Woman is a Woman.

[Rufus Stone]

chrispmartha said:

Not really, have a think about it.

A Homosexual Woman is a Woman.

And?

[chrispmartha]

Rufus Stone said:

chrispmartha said:

Not really, have a think about it.

A Homosexual Woman is a Woman.

And?

As I say you can use a descriptor before the word woman and still think that they are a woman.

[ChocolateFrog]

Is some common sense returning to the world?

Not the first sensible decision we've seen lately, feels like the completely mental state of affairs we've had over the last couple of years is subsiding.

There's literally no rational argument against this decision.

[Kes Arevo]

chrispmartha said:

Not really, have a think about it.

A Homosexual Woman is a Woman.

Trans is the only qualifier that if you change, they are no longer a woman.

[ChocolateFrog]

XCP said:

Surely trans people should compete against other trans people.

For the same prize money too.

[plenty]

ChocolateFrog said:

Is some common sense returning to the world?

Not the first sensible decision we've seen lately, feels like the completely mental state of affairs we've had over the last couple of years is subsiding.

There's literally no rational argument against this decision.

Yes there is, but 'world's gone mad' people aren't influenced by rational arguments.

[Rufus Stone]

plenty said:

On the other: "Trans people cannot and should not exist."

I have never seen that claimed on PH.

[plenty]

Rufus Stone said:

plenty said:

On the other: "Trans people cannot and should not exist."

I have never seen that claimed on PH.

It's claimed several times on this thread, including by you. If you refuse to acknowledge a trans person's right to define their own gender, you deny their existence.

[Rufus Stone]

plenty said:

It's claimed several times on this thread, including by you. If you refuse to acknowledge a trans person's right to define their own gender, you deny their existence.

Utter rubbish.

[Gecko1978]

ChocolateFrog said:

XCP said:

Surely trans people should compete against other trans people.

For the same prize money too.

Prize money is a function of view engagement etc so if trans women got more views supporters etc the prize money would be bigger right not the same

[grumbledoak]

ChocolateFrog said:

Is some common sense returning to the world?

Not the first sensible decision we've seen lately, feels like the completely mental state of affairs we've had over the last couple of years is subsiding.

There's literally no rational argument against this decision.

I'm not convinced that will matter. Rationality was defenestrated quite a while ago on this topic. I don't doubt that there will be some sort of mobilization. Still, let's enjoy the hopeful feeling while it lasts.

[Gecko1978]

Rufus Stone said:

plenty said:

It's claimed several times on this thread, including by you. If you refuse to acknowledge a trans person's right to define their own gender, you deny their existence.

Utter rubbish.

100% agree its utter tosh to say you are deneying there existance ffs. If I identify as Tea Pot I still exist even if you do not agree I am a tea pot. Me nt agreeing you are the same as a "Origonal recipe" women does not mean you do not exist ffs it just means we disagree over how u are viwed but it never would come up because as a common curtesy I would call you by your prefered title

[plenty]

grumbledoak said:

Rationality was defenestrated quite a while ago on this topic. I don't doubt that there will be some sort of mobilization. Still, let's enjoy the hopeful feeling while it lasts.

Funny isn't it how both supporters and opponents see the other side as abandoning reason.

And yet, as evidenced on this thread, you have a 'debate' that can be summarised as:

'I support trans people but it's a complex matter and I trust the decision was made carefully.'

Versus

'Finally some sanity in a world gone mad! Trans women aren't women.'

Imagine the comments if the decision had gone the other way.

[IanH755]

I'm all for transwomen taking over all of women's sports, as they're generally dull to watch so having biological men take them over might make the sports fun to watch.

Shame about the women's beach volleyball though, but sacrifices have to be made I suppose

I am, of course, being utterly sarcastic.