French passenger jet gone missing from radar screens........
Discussion
Gargamel said:
CY88 said:
Guy who sits opposite me is an experienced sky diver with many hundreds of jumps under his belt, filming others at the same time. We have been discussing this. He said that up until the recent tighter security measures at airports, he and his friends always carried their chutes on commercial flights as hand luggage. They also favoured sitting near exits. Apparently they reckoned they could whip them on as quick as a life jacket, and that if they were sucked out of the cabin and remained conscious, there was a sporting chance of pulling the cord and have it open successfully. Better a slim chance than no chance?
Fair enough, I wonder what realistic probability is for survival though, in this accident I can't see how it would help. How long are you likely to survive in the South Atlantic assuming you do make it to splash down. An hour or two at most I suspect? I think that the water temp is fairly similar at that location. We did pass enough sharks that I wouldn't want to be in the water that long!
Podie said:
MK4 Slowride said:
I find people with a fear of flying a bit silly, especially if they've never been on an aeroplane & had a bad experience.
I was once told by a University lecturer that there are four or five competing theories on why planes fly - and none of them completely agree with each other.Whether it's true or not...
With regards to parachuting out of a stricken airliner I think that would be silly for two reasons:
1, is that even if you could put on your chute and get to the door and jump out any chance the plane had of rectifying it's position would be lost and I'm sure the remaining seated passengers would be condemned.
2, You'd only be jumping out if things were really bad and chances are you'd not be able to do it as it happens so quick.
The majority of people are quite sheep like (I don't mean that in a derogatory manner) and will happily wait to see what the rest of the flock do.
Me = the first sign of trouble and I'm out of there -->
Bit off topic in the plane about to crash scenario though
not really a great deal you can do. As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.
Me = the first sign of trouble and I'm out of there -->
Bit off topic in the plane about to crash scenario though
not really a great deal you can do. As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.Eric Mc said:
Legend83 said:
Eric Mc said:
Imagine the jam at the doors. It's hard enough getting out at the terminal gate.
But seriously, why a life jacket and not a parachute? What is the point of a life jacket if you hit the water like a rock hitting the pavement?
And let's face it - I doubt passengers would know how to use one any more than they would know how to use a life jacket!
Have you ever had to put one on?
Have you read of the difficulties experienced by bomber crews as they struggled to get out of striken B-17s or Lancasters in WW2?
Imagine 350 untrained, scared passengers ranging in age from 3 months to 90 years of age all trying to cope with parachutes in an aircraft upside down or tumbling, possibly breaking up diving towards the ocean.
Just not a credible scenario, is it?
Edited by Eric Mc on Tuesday 2nd June 14:16
no mean feat on the ground even after a days training.
I have see student jumpers putting their rig on upside down
There is a company that has developed a Balistic Parachute Recovery System for light aircraft, they were supposed to be looking at larger aircraft systems
This image from the bbc showing where the "wreckage" has been found
The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
MK4 Slowride said:
Aeroplanes almost defy physics. I heard somewhere that just pressurising the cabin of a 747 adds 1 tonne of weight. They have 30+ tonnes of fuel on board and we've not even got to the passenger & aeroplanes weight yet. It still works though.
They don't actually 'pressurise it as such, just don't let the pressure drop below a certain point. I beleive the pressure is equal to that at about 8000 feet. I can't see why adding pressure would make the plane a ton heavier either.
And fuel weight on a 747 pushes approx 150 tons if I remember.
dan1981 said:
This image from the bbc showing where the "wreckage" has been found
The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
If the thunderstorms at the ITCZ are so severe, given that they are not exactly uncommon and that hundreds of airliners fly that route each year why don't more of them fall out of the sky? It can't have been just the weather.The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
CY88 said:
Hyperion said:
As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.
I'm only repeating what an experienced skydiver's view is on increasing your chances of survival. Ayahuasca said:
dan1981 said:
This image from the bbc showing where the "wreckage" has been found
The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
If the thunderstorms at the ITCZ are so severe, given that they are not exactly uncommon and that hundreds of airliners fly that route each year why don't more of them fall out of the sky? It can't have been just the weather.The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
King Herald said:
I can't see why adding pressure would make the plane a ton heavier either.
air does weigh somethingdense air weighs more than less dense air (what's the opposite of dense???)
air at 20°c at sea level weighs 1.2 milligrams per cc, so a cubic metre, 1,000,000cc, weighs 1.2 kilos
does a jumbo have 1000 m³ of space in it? if it did that would be 1.2 tonnes compared to a vacuum, lets imagine air at 35,000 feet altitude weighs only 200 kg? could be feasible
Semi hemi said:
CY88 said:
Hyperion said:
As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.
I'm only repeating what an experienced skydiver's view is on increasing your chances of survival. 
I've seen the rig he used a couple of times when he's got it in work before going off on a trip, and I was astonished at how compact it was, with a reserve too. At the end of the day he accepts its an outside chance, as I said at the outset.
CY88 said:
Semi hemi said:
CY88 said:
Hyperion said:
As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.
I'm only repeating what an experienced skydiver's view is on increasing your chances of survival. I've seen the rig he used a couple of times when he's got it in work before going off on a trip, and I was astonished at how compact it was, with a reserve too. At the end of the day he accepts its an outside chance, as I said at the outset.
These things cruise at around 500 mph, all the cabin break ups that I've read about happen just a few seconds from start to finish, at which point the plane can either fly or it can't.
If it can fly it seems to me you're better off staying on board as the chances are it can land (can't remember reading about any plane that had suffered cabin break up ditching at sea?).
If it can't fly there's no way in hell you're going to be able to put the chute on and get safely out of the aircraft, even if you can stay conscious long enough to do so. The only way you could stand a chance of getting out of the aircraft is if a hole opens up next to you, but then you're going to be so buffeted by the wind that you won't be able to put the chute on.
Even if by some miracle you manage to get out of the plane with the 'chute on, you're like to be jumping from 30,000 ft plus and will pass out from lack of oxygen, possibly not coming around again to pull the rip chord before reaching the ground.
As for being immobilised by the instant subject to several hundred mph wind speed, I believe it's an issue, but certainly not a fatal one if my memory of the first high speed ejector seat testing is accurate.
Ayahuasca said:
dan1981 said:
This image from the bbc showing where the "wreckage" has been found
The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
If the thunderstorms at the ITCZ are so severe, given that they are not exactly uncommon and that hundreds of airliners fly that route each year why don't more of them fall out of the sky? It can't have been just the weather.The weather conditions are accurate from when the plance went missing. I can't see this one being down to anythign other than appalling weather conditions either causing the plane to fail, or interacctiong with for example poor maintenance to cause the failure.
Look at that string of thunder storms for starters. Imagine it was not a pleasant flight to be on, before everythign went tits up.
BBC also saying that the pieces of wreckage are already spread over at least 60km. -Sounds about right for a breakup from 35k feet doesn't it?
hugo a gogo said:
King Herald said:
I can't see why adding pressure would make the plane a ton heavier either.
air does weigh somethingdense air weighs more than less dense air (what's the opposite of dense???)
air at 20°c at sea level weighs 1.2 milligrams per cc, so a cubic metre, 1,000,000cc, weighs 1.2 kilos
does a jumbo have 1000 m³ of space in it? if it did that would be 1.2 tonnes compared to a vacuum, lets imagine air at 35,000 feet altitude weighs only 200 kg? could be feasible
CY88 said:
Semi hemi said:
CY88 said:
Hyperion said:
As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.
I'm only repeating what an experienced skydiver's view is on increasing your chances of survival. I've seen the rig he used a couple of times when he's got it in work before going off on a trip, and I was astonished at how compact it was, with a reserve too. At the end of the day he accepts its an outside chance, as I said at the outset.
Mr Will said:
CY88 said:
Semi hemi said:
CY88 said:
Hyperion said:
As for the parachute idea - get real. I doubt you could even open the door mid flight, and even if you could being sucked out at 200+mph will be like hitting a brick wall.
I'm only repeating what an experienced skydiver's view is on increasing your chances of survival. I've seen the rig he used a couple of times when he's got it in work before going off on a trip, and I was astonished at how compact it was, with a reserve too. At the end of the day he accepts its an outside chance, as I said at the outset.
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