UK file-sharers will be 'cut off'
Discussion
hewlett said:
A belated thanks to those who answered the question. Off to find out what 'Vuse' is..
Vuze is rubbish, if you're interested in getting started with torrents then I'd recommend you download the torrent client uTorrent http://www.utorrent.com/ and then taking a visit to http://thepiratebay.org/ , http://btjunkie.org , www.isohunt.comEdited by bonsai on Sunday 18th April 17:20
RDMcG said:
That's the issue-bandwidth is far from infinite. If you buy a V12, you expect to have a bigger fuel bill than a Prius driver. In the US this has comeo to a head. The carriers want to charge essentially be volume. Seems fair to me. If you take a lot of space on the network, you should pay for it. File sharing and torrents are huge consumers which slows down response time. The carriers cannot afford to upgrade the network without incremental revenue. Same issue with iPhone which is killing wireless networks. Look for differential pricing one of these days.
I'd be very careful about considering anything positive about US carriers when it comes to pricing. Certainly, feeling sorry for them is misplaced.Our 2M dsl connection in Florida (when it works) is getting close onto $100 per month. I think the DSL component is $60+ and you can't get out of the telephone package etc.
Internet provision in the UK is way better than the US. There is no real competition in the US so they've got you banged to rights. I would even say that our particular bell is up their with British Telecom in the 70s.
bonsai said:
hewlett said:
A belated thanks to those who answered the question. Off to find out what 'Vuse' is..
Vuze is rubbish, if you're interested in getting started with torrents then I'd recommend you download the torrent client uTorrent http://www.utorrent.com/ and then taking a visit to http://thepiratebay.org/ , http://btjunkie.org , www.isohunt.comEdited by bonsai on Sunday 18th April 17:20
tinman0 said:
youngsyr said:
How many millions of people would download a bona fide HD quality version of Avataar from the producer if it were available worldwide from a secure source for £1-2 3 months after its cinema release ended?
How many people would actually bother copying it from their mates if it were just £1 to get a real copy?
How many companies would risk putting up $400m to produce a film if it was only going to be sold for $2?How many people would actually bother copying it from their mates if it were just £1 to get a real copy?
As I wrote earlier, how many million people would download a legal copy of Avataar if it cost just $2?
Now look up how much it took at the box office and how much it cost to make.
Frankeh said:
bonsai said:
hewlett said:
A belated thanks to those who answered the question. Off to find out what 'Vuse' is..
Vuze is rubbish, if you're interested in getting started with torrents then I'd recommend you download the torrent client uTorrent http://www.utorrent.com/ and then taking a visit to http://thepiratebay.org/ , http://btjunkie.org , www.isohunt.comEdited by bonsai on Sunday 18th April 17:20
tinman0 said:
RDMcG said:
That's the issue-bandwidth is far from infinite. If you buy a V12, you expect to have a bigger fuel bill than a Prius driver. In the US this has comeo to a head. The carriers want to charge essentially be volume. Seems fair to me. If you take a lot of space on the network, you should pay for it. File sharing and torrents are huge consumers which slows down response time. The carriers cannot afford to upgrade the network without incremental revenue. Same issue with iPhone which is killing wireless networks. Look for differential pricing one of these days.
I'd be very careful about considering anything positive about US carriers when it comes to pricing. Certainly, feeling sorry for them is misplaced.Our 2M dsl connection in Florida (when it works) is getting close onto $100 per month. I think the DSL component is $60+ and you can't get out of the telephone package etc.
Internet provision in the UK is way better than the US. There is no real competition in the US so they've got you banged to rights. I would even say that our particular bell is up their with British Telecom in the 70s.
youngsyr said:
tinman0 said:
youngsyr said:
How many millions of people would download a bona fide HD quality version of Avataar from the producer if it were available worldwide from a secure source for £1-2 3 months after its cinema release ended?
How many people would actually bother copying it from their mates if it were just £1 to get a real copy?
How many companies would risk putting up $400m to produce a film if it was only going to be sold for $2?How many people would actually bother copying it from their mates if it were just £1 to get a real copy?
As I wrote earlier, how many million people would download a legal copy of Avataar if it cost just $2?
Now look up how much it took at the box office and how much it cost to make.
I agree with the sentiment earlier about transferring a performance from one medium to another, eg cd to ipod, but not about this wholescale downloading of someone's work and not paying a penny towards it.
And everyone talks about the "suits in the music industry", but they also don't understand that the "suits" also fund new artists, and the vast majority of stuff they fund does not do well.
So of course they b
hy when it comes to protecting their margins. Who wouldn't be? And frankly - if the suits didn't protect the shareholders interest they are doing a very poor job.tinman0 said:
And everyone talks about the "suits in the music industry", but they also don't understand that the "suits" also fund new artists, and the vast majority of stuff they fund does not do well.
So of course they bhy when it comes to protecting their margins. Who wouldn't be? And frankly - if the suits didn't protect the shareholders interest they are doing a very poor job.
Many of us want the music industry to burn to the ground.So of course they b
hy when it comes to protecting their margins. Who wouldn't be? And frankly - if the suits didn't protect the shareholders interest they are doing a very poor job.Rusty Arches said:
tinman0 said:
And everyone talks about the "suits in the music industry", but they also don't understand that the "suits" also fund new artists, and the vast majority of stuff they fund does not do well.
So of course they bhy when it comes to protecting their margins. Who wouldn't be? And frankly - if the suits didn't protect the shareholders interest they are doing a very poor job.
Many of us want the music industry to burn to the ground.So of course they b
hy when it comes to protecting their margins. Who wouldn't be? And frankly - if the suits didn't protect the shareholders interest they are doing a very poor job.tinman0 said:
RDMcG said:
That's the issue-bandwidth is far from infinite. If you buy a V12, you expect to have a bigger fuel bill than a Prius driver. In the US this has comeo to a head. The carriers want to charge essentially be volume. Seems fair to me. If you take a lot of space on the network, you should pay for it. File sharing and torrents are huge consumers which slows down response time. The carriers cannot afford to upgrade the network without incremental revenue. Same issue with iPhone which is killing wireless networks. Look for differential pricing one of these days.
I'd be very careful about considering anything positive about US carriers when it comes to pricing. Certainly, feeling sorry for them is misplaced.Our 2M dsl connection in Florida (when it works) is getting close onto $100 per month. I think the DSL component is $60+ and you can't get out of the telephone package etc.
Internet provision in the UK is way better than the US. There is no real competition in the US so they've got you banged to rights. I would even say that our particular bell is up their with British Telecom in the 70s.
I wouldn't trust 'Industry' to offer us anything in the form of progression.
The best 'industry' (be it music, film etc) can do is continue to be reactive to people getting around their methods.
If it wasn't for the likes of Napster coming along and ripping songs to mp3's then I doubt the music industry would be offering mp3 downloads (iTunes). Why would they, it doesn't suit their greedy business models.
If it isn't for torrents allowing people to download electronic copies of movies then the likes of the BBC wouldn't be putting services out like iPlayer, Hulu in the US etc.
If we left it up to the industry then we wouldn't be talking about downloads of anything. Love it or hate it, people getting around 'legal' methods forces these business to get off their butts adapt and their old, outdated offerings into what consumers want.
The best 'industry' (be it music, film etc) can do is continue to be reactive to people getting around their methods.
If it wasn't for the likes of Napster coming along and ripping songs to mp3's then I doubt the music industry would be offering mp3 downloads (iTunes). Why would they, it doesn't suit their greedy business models.
If it isn't for torrents allowing people to download electronic copies of movies then the likes of the BBC wouldn't be putting services out like iPlayer, Hulu in the US etc.
If we left it up to the industry then we wouldn't be talking about downloads of anything. Love it or hate it, people getting around 'legal' methods forces these business to get off their butts adapt and their old, outdated offerings into what consumers want.
interesting link, the vpn account works on win 7, the low power pc is ubuntu 9.10, forums seem to suggest 32 bit great, 64 bit forget it and yes have tried several linux vpn options, speed looks a lot higher than the 2-3 mb ipredator offers 
edit:- works on mac or windows, so maybe something for the future ?
edit:- works on mac or windows, so maybe something for the future ?
Edited by Scraggles on Monday 19th April 09:22
An important government needs to make it clear that it's the music industries business model that needs to change, not the countries laws.
Like someone's said, I'd pay £2 for a film if there was a decent service and no DRM.
Ideally though a subscription model is much preferable. I'd pay up to £19.99 for unlimited movie streams on my TV.
It's seriously surprising that no one is really offering this.
Like someone's said, I'd pay £2 for a film if there was a decent service and no DRM.
Ideally though a subscription model is much preferable. I'd pay up to £19.99 for unlimited movie streams on my TV.
It's seriously surprising that no one is really offering this.
Frankeh said:
Ideally though a subscription model is much preferable. I'd pay up to £19.99 for unlimited movie streams on my TV.
It's seriously surprising that no one is really offering this.
I take it you mean a month or as a one off payment?,I would pay that a month to watch the latest films in the comfort of my own home even if it was a once only viewing it would still be less than I spend a month on cinema trips at the moment.It's seriously surprising that no one is really offering this.
MrV said:
Frankeh said:
Ideally though a subscription model is much preferable. I'd pay up to £19.99 for unlimited movie streams on my TV.
It's seriously surprising that no one is really offering this.
I take it you mean a month or as a one off payment?,I would pay that a month to watch the latest films in the comfort of my own home even if it was a once only viewing it would still be less than I spend a month on cinema trips at the moment.It's seriously surprising that no one is really offering this.
tinman0 said:
youngsyr said:
tinman0 said:
youngsyr said:
How many millions of people would download a bona fide HD quality version of Avataar from the producer if it were available worldwide from a secure source for £1-2 3 months after its cinema release ended?
How many people would actually bother copying it from their mates if it were just £1 to get a real copy?
How many companies would risk putting up $400m to produce a film if it was only going to be sold for $2?How many people would actually bother copying it from their mates if it were just £1 to get a real copy?
As I wrote earlier, how many million people would download a legal copy of Avataar if it cost just $2?
Now look up how much it took at the box office and how much it cost to make.
I agree with the sentiment earlier about transferring a performance from one medium to another, eg cd to ipod, but not about this wholescale downloading of someone's work and not paying a penny towards it.
And everyone talks about the "suits in the music industry", but they also don't understand that the "suits" also fund new artists, and the vast majority of stuff they fund does not do well.
So of course they b
hy when it comes to protecting their margins. Who wouldn't be? And frankly - if the suits didn't protect the shareholders interest they are doing a very poor job.What I'm suggesting is that their business model is clearly broken, hence the last ditch attempts at lobbying with the aim of legislating their way out of trouble - hardly the modus operandi of a successful industry that is meeting its consumers' needs.
As for margins, they are made up of revenue less costs. Costs aren't materially affected by this issue*, leaving only revenue. Revenue is made up of units sold and the price they're sold at. If you sell more units at a lower price, it's possible to maintain or even improve your total revenue and hence your margins.
'*Arguably the only impact on costs by switching to a high volume/low cost virtual distribution model would be to lower them, as there would be fewer middlemen and lower distribution costs with no physical media to transport and sell in physical outlets.
youngsyr said:
As for margins, they are made up of revenue less costs. Costs aren't materially affected by this issue*, leaving only revenue. Revenue is made up of units sold and the price they're sold at. If you sell more units at a lower price, it's possible to maintain or even improve your total revenue and hence your margins.
'*Arguably the only impact on costs by switching to a high volume/low cost virtual distribution model would be to lower them, as there would be fewer middlemen and lower distribution costs with no physical media to transport and sell in physical outlets.
Eh? There are huge costs in making music. Studios don't come free for instance.'*Arguably the only impact on costs by switching to a high volume/low cost virtual distribution model would be to lower them, as there would be fewer middlemen and lower distribution costs with no physical media to transport and sell in physical outlets.
Then you have to market the music as it just doesn't sell itself.
The distribution is controlled by shop fronts like Amazon, iTunes, or physical shops, and again, they will want their cut for doing that bit of business. I have to admit that i'm surprised you can't self publish on iTunes, but that's only a matter of time, and even if you did, you still need to market that product.
I'm working on a project with my father. In the last 20 years he has written 16 books. He likes doing that, and fair play to him. He's been rejected by every publisher going as are the vast majority of authors.
But even he understands that it's not price that this revolves around. The key to him selling the work isn't distribution - it's marketing. Just because he can stick his work up for $0.99, doesn't not mean that it will sell.
In fact the cheaper it is, the worse the underlying sales are because it shows you don't value your own work. Which again blows another whole in your argument.
People will spend money on a quality product. That's BMWs sales model.
Back to record companies though - you can avoid all these record companies all day long, but you still have to promote yourself, and that costs money. Record companies front the money, promote you through their existing promotion departments and so forth. And that is also where record companies lose money because again, not all artists they promote are successful.
It's all very well looking at Coldplay and saying how much money they make for their record company, and how you deserve to buy it cheaper, but those profits are getting another 20(?) bands into the market place.
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