Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

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Diderot

7,263 posts

191 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7172662.stm

From 2008. Over 4 years later what's happened?

nelly1

5,630 posts

230 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
More Black propaganda on Renewables:-

Renewables 'help jobs and growth'... and

Public back wind farm subsidies, survey suggests...

Article said:
Further endorsement for renewables came in another poll...

The survey asked a representative sample of 2,884 UK adults which sources of energy they would most like to see providing more electricity in 10 years' time.

Sixty-four per cent backed renewables - wind, wave, tidal and solar - while just two per cent wanted a gas-led supply.

Support was higher in Scotland, where 88% wanted a future based on renewables
Guess who commissioned the survey?

Surprise surprise - Friends of the Earth. rolleyes

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
nelly1 said:
More Black propaganda on Renewables:-


Public back wind farm subsidies, survey suggests...
Article said:
Among various initiatives there, the UK and US are announcing a joint push to develop floating wind turbines.
Now then, if we float them off the Welsh coast and reverse the power, will they sail across the Irish Sea and crash into Ireland...?

This might work...smile

Apache

39,731 posts

283 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
BJWoods said:
‘I made a mistake’
As “an independent and a loner,” he said he did not mind saying “All right, I made a mistake.” He claimed a university or government scientist might fear an admission of a mistake would lead to the loss of funding.
is there a 'toldyaso' smiley anywhere? or a 'beingtellingyouthatforyears' one?

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Germany Banks on Coal and Gas by Building 17 New Coal & 29 New Gas-Fired Power Stations

German utilities and private investors have plans to construct or modernise some 84 power stations, energy and water industry association BDEW said on Monday. Of the total number counted 29 units were gas-fired and 17 coal-fired generation plants, it said. The plans this year reflect over a year of debate on how to best replace Germany's nuclear power stations, which must be closed faster than planned in light of the nuclear disaster in Japan in March 2011.
Reuters, 23 April 2012

Globs

13,841 posts

230 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Germany Banks on Coal and Gas by Building 17 New Coal & 29 New Gas-Fired Power Stations

German utilities and private investors have plans to construct or modernise some 84 power stations, energy and water industry association BDEW said on Monday. Of the total number counted 29 units were gas-fired and 17 coal-fired generation plants, it said. The plans this year reflect over a year of debate on how to best replace Germany's nuclear power stations, which must be closed faster than planned in light of the nuclear disaster in Japan in March 2011.
Reuters, 23 April 2012
Shame our own politicians are too stupid to do that.

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
That's 46 out of 84. What are the rest powered by?

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Blib said:
That's 46 out of 84. What are the rest powered by?
More here (link below).

http://thegwpf.org/international-news/5536-germany...

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
So, 23 are "Offshore wind". Their energy production "capacity" is quoted with no acknowledgment that, unlike coal and gas fired stations, these figures are at best a guess and at worst a rose tinted impossible dream.

Of all people, those in the power generation industry should know that wind powered "capacity" has little to do with actual generation.

Or, have I missed something? I'm reading this on my phone.

Globs

13,841 posts

230 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Blib said:
So, 23 are "Offshore wind". Their energy production "capacity" is quoted with no acknowledgment that, unlike coal and gas fired stations, these figures are at best a guess and at worst a rose tinted impossible dream.

Of all people, those in the power generation industry should know that wind powered "capacity" has little to do with actual generation.

Or, have I missed something? I'm reading this on my phone.
You have missed nothing, but they always (like most greens) miss the most basic physics and maths.
They are missing the CUBIC LAW of wind power generation.

I.e.

a) Force is proportional to windspeed squared.
b) Power = Force x Speed
c) Therefore power is proportional to Windspeed cubed.

e.g. A turbine rated at 10MW at full power (max wind) will then give 10 / 8 = 1.25MW at half speed - or 12.5%.

The blades do twist a bit but the fundamental fact is that most of the time they'll be running at 10% of capacity, the other time they'll be sucking up power from the national grid to keep them warm, keep the oil circulating and keep the bearings from sitting in one place for too long.

Personally I doubt ANY windmill has ever created more energy than it cost to create, install, service and survive.

Silver Smudger

3,292 posts

166 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Pointman said:
"Appropriate measures shall be taken" - Go on then, tell me what those measures are.

Pointman
Well I will admit I don't know - However, some Googling tells me that there is a limit of 5mg of mercury (vapour) in a fluorescent lamp. I cannot find out how much mercury vapour is needed to make someone sick. I would like to know how dangerous the concentration of mercury is going to be in 30,000 litres of water, even if we assume that the lamp is broken underwater and the vapour does not escape from this water.

Wikipedia says that half the mercury released in the atmosphere comes from volcanoes and the other half from man's activities - 66% of that from coal fired power stations - CFL breakage is not noted on the list

Regarding the precautions recommended if one is broken in the home, they say that a mercury spill should not be cleared up with a vacuum cleaner, as this could well disperse or scatter droplets, and that the fragments of the lamp should be sealed in a bag. I am not sure how this applies to a release of the vapour from a lamp. Does the mercury condense out onto the floor?

As someone old enough to have played with liquid mercury in a school lab, and then washed my hands afterwards, I am still trying to work out exactly how much of this advice is perfectly rational and how much is 'OMG - toxic - think of the children'.

As I said, I do not know - Yet - Still Googling, anyone got any leads for me to follow?

Edited by Silver Smudger on Tuesday 24th April 21:38

Pointman

107 posts

147 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Imagine Katrina hitting New Orleans and every house in it has nothing but CFLs. Goodbye fishing in the gulf ...

Pointman

BliarOut

72,857 posts

238 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Germany Banks on Coal and Gas by Building 17 New Coal & 29 New Gas-Fired Power Stations

German utilities and private investors have plans to construct or modernise some 84 power stations, energy and water industry association BDEW said on Monday. Of the total number counted 29 units were gas-fired and 17 coal-fired generation plants, it said. The plans this year reflect over a year of debate on how to best replace Germany's nuclear power stations, which must be closed faster than planned in light of the nuclear disaster in Japan in March 2011.
Reuters, 23 April 2012
Thereby rendering every single penny our own government spends on CO2 reduction (read costing us money) completely pointless.

Wake up and smell the coffee boys rolleyes

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
How very dare you! Our government, using your taxes, is saving the World ! There's nothing nobler.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Meanwhile our lot are talking more rubbish smile

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/316294/Britain...

Naturally, on cue "environmentalists warned that energy from waste can discourage recycling and reuse of resources and they raised health concerns about pollution from incinerators".

Mr GrimNasty

8,172 posts

169 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Pointman said:
Imagine Katrina hitting New Orleans and every house in it has nothing but CFLs. Goodbye fishing in the gulf ...

Pointman
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury - jeez, you must just have had a panic attack.

And there are far more serious pollutants in far larger quantities that would be released in such catastrophes.

Nature/time has a way of processing (fixing, if not actually breaking down) even the nastiest pollutants.

Sorry, but you've lost the plot. On the scale of things to worry about, mercury in CFLs just does not figure.

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
This is one of he many things that show how blinkered environmental campaigners can be. This is a quote from TB's article.

article said:
Friends of the Earth Waste Campaigner Julian Kirby said: “It’s true thousands of UK jobs can be created by reducing waste and boosting recycling - but much of that would go up in smoke if we listened to the rubbish spouted about the need for new incinerators.
And here's some nformation about the incinerators from the same article.

article said:
SITA UK also stressed that incinerators have to meet strict EU emissions limits and that they would only burn waste that could not be recycled.
These people seem to ignore the facts and follow their own knee-jerk narrative.

Fools.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...
Yep they have been some kind of red liquid for as long as i remember.

Pointman

107 posts

147 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
The problem with the real dyed-in-the-green fanatics is, they're so fixated on cutting down co2, they don't care if they poison the earth. It reminds me of what that Lt. said of that Vietnamese village in the war - "We had to destroy it to save it."

Pointman
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