Meanwhile, In Syria

[BlackLabel]

Israel used to enable Hamas activity in its beginning, intending to weaken the PLO. That worked out well didn't it. If they're not careful the same will happen here.

Wall Street journal said:

Israel has been regularly supplying Syrian rebels near its border with cash as well as food, fuel and medical supplies for years, a secret engagement in the enemy country’s civil war aimed at carving out a buffer zone populated by friendly forces.

The Israeli army is in regular communication with rebel groups and its assistance includes undisclosed payments to commanders that help pay salaries of fighters and buy ammunition and weapons, according to interviews with about half a dozen Syrian fighters. Israel has established a military unit that oversees the support in Syria—a country that it has been in a state of war with for decades—and set aside a specific budget for the aid, said one person familiar with the Israeli operation.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/israel-gives-secret-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1497813430

[Countdown]

It's important to remember that it's Iran which is the main supporter of terrorism. we in the West and our allies don't do "that sort of thing".

And the next time a bomb goes off somewhere it's "our way of life" they're attacking, because there's no reasonable justification for it.

[Globs]

Very sad to see this, the US invasion of Syria is now 'official' (although still illegal in US law and UN/international law).
http://thesaker.is/us-led-coalition-downed-syrian-...

Russia are now seeing how serious Israel is about levelling Syria:
https://www.rt.com/news/393009-syria-plane-downing...

I doubt it will be much longer before thousands more US troops are shipped in and they start taking out Russian planes.

The winners here are the terrorists and the kurds. The Kurds are always painted as angels but the fact is they are stealing a large chunk of Syria and preventing Syria from getting it back, which makes them thieves and terrorists too. I always thought Turkey was wrong about the kurds but I can see their point of view now with 30% of Syria in their grasp. The kurds appear to be the acceptable face of US sponsored thievery.

After Syria achieving good momentum against ISIS it seems that the US invasion is finally beginning to pay off and I fear that Syria is no losing, if I was the coalitian fighting ISIS (Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Russia) I'd be thinking very carefully now about how far to let the US heart of the cancer get into Syria before neutralising it.

Because if they let the US and their wahhabist friends overrun Syria General Wesley Clark's list he got from the Israeli Wolfowitz - all those years ago - moves down one to Iran.
From 2007: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUCwCgthp_E&fe...

[Globs]

And now we have the only logical response with Russia appears to be laying down international law

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...

https://www.rt.com/news/393028-syria-russia-us-pla...

I hope it's true, the alternative is no Syria and war with Iran and Russia

[grumbledoak]

Countdown said:

It's important to remember that it's Iran which is the main supporter of terrorism. we in the West and our allies don't do "that sort of thing".

And the next time a bomb goes off somewhere it's "our way of life" they're attacking, because there's no reasonable justification for it.

Are you missing a smilie?

"We" fund ISIS via Saudi Arabia. Overall, "We in the West" created the various excuses that we needed to destroy Iraq, Libya, and now Syria. Iran is next on the plan.

Or, if you prefer to judge sides on the use of chemical weapons, white phosphorous, and depleted Uranium, that would be us too.

Or, if you want to characterize this situation simply as the good guys vs the baddies, then I've got some bad news for you.

[Globs]

Countdown was being sarcastic!

THIS is interesting tho:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-19/syrian-re...

[Driller]

"Any aircraft, including planes and drones belonging to the international coalition operating west of the River Euphrates, will be tracked by Russian anti-aircraft forces in the sky and on the ground and treated as targets," the Russian defence ministry said.

[Tartan Pixie]

Globs said:

The winners here are the terrorists and the kurds. The Kurds are always painted as angels but the fact is they are stealing a large chunk of Syria and preventing Syria from getting it back, which makes them thieves and terrorists too. I always thought Turkey was wrong about the kurds but I can see their point of view now with 30% of Syria in their grasp. The kurds appear to be the acceptable face of US sponsored thievery.

One week after Sputnik and RT change their line on the Kurds and you're coming out with this?!? It is frightening to see an otherwise intelligent person be so heavily affected by propaganda.

The Kurds in the SDF are Syrians. Syrians who have had their language and culture repressed by the brutal mukhabarat secret police while being denied opportunities by the highly centralised ba'athist system. Apparently you now want to see Assad return along with this repression because a group of people who are ancient inhabitants of this land from long before the Ottomans turned up "are stealing a large chunk of Syria".

That is not a sign of thought out reasoning - that is the reasoning of a person who has left their critical faculties turned off before reading stuff on the internet and thus made themselves vulnerable to being manipulated.

Any time you find yourself demonising large groups of civilians alarm bells should be going off in your head.

Anyway, that isn't what I came here to say so... second post incoming shortly

Minor edit for clarity

Edited by Tartan Pixie on Monday 19th June 19:23

[Tartan Pixie]

Map released by Cizire Canton earlier today: https://twitter.com/CizireCanton/status/8768033800...

All quiet between SAA and SDF today. From what I can tell after a scout about on reddit and twitter, yesterday was more unplanned snafu than an intentional escalation. Daesh was in full retreat meaning that both SAA and SDF were moving forward faster than the other realised and when they met some bright sparks on each side started shooting the wrong people leading to clashes. Calmer heads have now prevailed and the truce is restored.

As for the aircraft being shot down, I suspect the coalition needed to do something to get the SAA to back off and in the heat of the moment decisions were made. None of us will know for sure, however it has ended with the truce being restored and that's the main thing.

This is good news for those of us who prefer not to be sucked in to the propaganda efforts aimed at demonising large chunks of Syrian civilians in the name of USA/Russian empires. I hope to see the Syrian government and Rojava administration sort their differences at the negotiation table, not the battlefield.

[Globs]

Tartan Pixie said:

One week after Sputnik and RT change their line on the Kurds and you're coming out with this?!? It is frightening to see an otherwise intelligent person be so heavily affected by propaganda.

The Kurds in the SDF are Syrians. Syrians who have had their language and culture repressed by the brutal mukhabarat secret police while being denied opportunities by the highly centralised ba'athist system. Apparently you now want to see Assad return along with this repression because a group of people who are ancient inhabitants of this land from long before the Ottomans turned up "are stealing a large chunk of Syria".

In fact I've never been pro-kurd, they always seem to be causing trouble being financed by the US is usually a good sign they are up to no good.

As for the Kurds being Syrians: what are you talking about??
Being Syrian is not a race, it's a UN recognised country, which clearly Kurds are not part of because they are always bleating about having 'their own country'.

As for believing that Assad's Syria was brutally denying them opportunities - what opportunities? To chop off a bit of Syria and set up their own country?? Are you serious? Try than in the UK and let us know how you get on. Good luck with that.
As for ancient inhabitants - what are you talking about?? ALL Syrians are related to ancient inhabitants.

It's frightening how deeply you are falling for the propaganda, perhaps you need to listen to an American explain Syria?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjOr2YzrZDY

[Bibbs]

Driller said:

"Any aircraft, including planes and drones belonging to the international coalition operating west of the River Euphrates, will be tracked by Russian anti-aircraft forces in the sky and on the ground and treated as targets," the Russian defence ministry said.

I liked this statement :-

"Washington said the jet had dropped bombs near US-backed forces but Damascus said the plane was downed while flying a mission against Isis militants."

So, both those statements can be true.

[Globs]

Tartan Pixie said:

Some twenty years ago I joined Campaign Against the Arms Trade and eventually ended up getting tear gassed in Palestine to help prevent olive groves being ripped up to build the Israeli security wall*.

:

*Regarding my trip to Palestine, it was backed by a couple of orthodox Jews who dislike Zionism and I have a healthy respect for Israel. Please don't think that I'm some crazy left wing anti semite just because I was out in Palestine, I'm a lot more positive than that.

Then you are a real friend and we are on the same side.
Thank-you.

[Globs]

scherzkeks said:

Thought provoking if you are unable to see the logical fallacy that underpins the entire post, with a dash of "powerfully-built company director" added because PH.

Certainly the amount we spent on war to get cheap oil is FAR more than would have been spent on just simply paying for the oil.

Because we don't go to war just for cheap oil, we are all vassals of the US and the wars are to protect the reserve currency status, to funnel taxpayers money to the arms manufacturers which is the core of the US economy and because the US is largely controlled by Israelis who have dual nationality and and loyal to Israel, not the US or us.

There is also the US hegemony angle which forbids any independent sovereign nation, Iraq and Libya were destroyed because of the banking, the oil sales not being in dollars, the oil reserves, the gold reserves, and Israel's Yinon plan.

US aggression is so bad now that they are openly calling for 'regime change' in Iran, along with Saudi and Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TNtFuSIzKA

which breaks international law, the UN Charter and the 1981 Algiers Accords, if the US is just going to break agreements, break the law and do what it wants whenever it wants regardless I can't see that anyone can trust it.

Which brings us back to Syria, subject to an illegal invasion, interference, theft and murder by the US.

Meanwhile back home the US economy has a huge debt/GDP ratio, every industry is failing, bridges and dams are failing and they have a $20Tn debt to service. Rather than this being an unfortunate coincidence, this debt is partly as a result of their investment in war and to fix it they are desperately looking for another country to pillage.

Questions like 'Where did the gold reserves of the Ukraine, Iraq and Libya go' remain unanswered as the civilians in both the US and her victims get poorer and the empire lunches from one attack to the next.

Now in Syria the US terrorists are fighting among themselves and the US has taken to directly attacking Assad's forces: 3 times now IIRC, as they double down and try to get away with keeping when they stole.

This series of interviews is long but fascinating and gives a glimpse into the Russian method of dealing with her rogue neighbour, I can highly recommend this to anyone with an interest in politics as it covers most of modern history.

Oliver Stone's Putin interview Pt 1 of 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRzhUO-Pz40

[Countdown]

scherzkeks said:

Thought provoking if you are unable to see the logical fallacy that underpins the entire post, with a dash of "powerfully-built company director" added because PH.

Without wishing to be insulting can i ask if you have ever considered (or received) psychiatric treatment?

What's the logical fallacy and the added powerfully built PH director?

[scherzkeks]

Globs said:

scherzkeks said:

Thought provoking if you are unable to see the logical fallacy that underpins the entire post, with a dash of "powerfully-built company director" added because PH.

Certainly the amount we spent on war to get cheap oil is FAR more than would have been spent on just simply paying for the oil.

Because we don't go to war just for cheap oil, we are all vassals of the US and the wars are to protect the reserve currency status, to funnel taxpayers money to the arms manufacturers which is the core of the US economy and because the US is largely controlled by Israelis who have dual nationality and and loyal to Israel, not the US or us.

There is also the US hegemony angle which forbids any independent sovereign nation, Iraq and Libya were destroyed because of the banking, the oil sales not being in dollars, the oil reserves, the gold reserves, and Israel's Yinon plan.

US aggression is so bad now that they are openly calling for 'regime change' in Iran, along with Saudi and Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TNtFuSIzKA

which breaks international law, the UN Charter and the 1981 Algiers Accords, if the US is just going to break agreements, break the law and do what it wants whenever it wants regardless I can't see that anyone can trust it.

Which brings us back to Syria, subject to an illegal invasion, interference, theft and murder by the US.

Meanwhile back home the US economy has a huge debt/GDP ratio, every industry is failing, bridges and dams are failing and they have a $20Tn debt to service. Rather than this being an unfortunate coincidence, this debt is partly as a result of their investment in war and to fix it they are desperately looking for another country to pillage.

Questions like 'Where did the gold reserves of the Ukraine, Iraq and Libya go' remain unanswered as the civilians in both the US and her victims get poorer and the empire lunches from one attack to the next.

Now in Syria the US terrorists are fighting among themselves and the US has taken to directly attacking Assad's forces: 3 times now IIRC, as they double down and try to get away with keeping when they stole.

This series of interviews is long but fascinating and gives a glimpse into the Russian method of dealing with her rogue neighbour, I can highly recommend this to anyone with an interest in politics as it covers most of modern history.

Oliver Stone's Putin interview Pt 1 of 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRzhUO-Pz40

Good post. Will check out the interview. Had forgotten about this.

[Rogue86]

scherzkeks said:

Thought provoking if you are unable to see the logical fallacy that underpins the entire post, with a dash of "powerfully-built company director" added because PH.

Its probably the most honest and interesting post in 322 pages of almost sheer speculation and conspiracy theories. Probably better to take the post apart if you disagree with it instead of being generally condescending.

[Globs]

Rogue86 said:

conspiracy theories

Ah, that odd phrase, great isn't it! Dismiss any argument in two words with zero evidence or research.
I wish I'd patented that.

I guess some may think supporting terrorists in Syria to overthrow Assad was an accident and that ISIS were just 'lucky', just don't confuse your choice of theory with an absence of conspiracy.

The american special forces in Syria didn't get lost on a training exercise in Ohio, these guys have GPS and everything, even F18s (unless that pilot got lost too and thought he was in Texas)

[dudleybloke]

Its the timing of the Syrian conflict that is interesting.
It all kicked off not long after Cheney's firm found huge oil reserves under the Golan.
Very convenient!

[grumbledoak]

Globs said:

Ah, that odd phrase, great isn't it! Dismiss any argument in two words with zero evidence or research.

Gaslighting. The history books are full of government lies but if you try to speak truth about current affairs you are "mad".

[Rogue86]

Globs said:

Ah, that odd phrase, great isn't it! Dismiss any argument in two words with zero evidence or research.
I wish I'd patented that.

I guess some may think supporting terrorists in Syria to overthrow Assad was an accident and that ISIS were just 'lucky', just don't confuse your choice of theory with an absence of conspiracy.

The american special forces in Syria didn't get lost on a training exercise in Ohio, these guys have GPS and everything, even F18s (unless that pilot got lost too and thought he was in Texas)

I like to base opinions on evidence and experience, not fiction. I left my imagination in my transformers lunch box next to my school uniform and BMX.