Meanwhile, In Syria

[Globs]

Rogue86 said:

Fascinating.

For anyone wanting to know more about the Russian 'targeting' of US aircraft, and why that's caused Australia to stop flying over Syria (not that they were allowed to in the first place!) and has stopped the US violating the sovereignty of Syrian airspace in the designated areas this is a good read.

http://thesaker.is/the-latest-escalation-in-syria-...

So summarise, the narrow beam radar targeting of a Russian S-300, S-400 or air-to-air system impacting an illegal plane (US, UK, Israeli, Saudi etc.) sets off a warning in the plane.

That warning doesn't tell them IF a 150kg missile is locked on and approaching at 4000mph (133 miles in 2 minutes) from literally any direction, but it tells them it COULD be: the pilot simply doesn't know.

It's a very good deterrent, the Russian's don't HAVE to shoot down any of the aggressors, but if the relevant commander or pilot decides to press the button then they can, so it makes them uncomfortable about the odds of hanging about to attack the sovereign UN registered forces of Syria. It's a touch of genius.

I also found the Iran cruise missile strike interesting, particularly as immediately after Israel announced how great their airforce was.
This fantastic Israeli airforce incidentally has attacked Iranians, Syrians and Hezbollah illegally in Syria, but has never attacked ISIS.
Iran's missle attack basically sent a very clear message saying: "We are not Iraq, we are not Libya and we are not Syria".

Interesting times.

[Countdown]

The S-300 has been around for a while. I'd be surprised if the US and Israel haven't developed countermeasures against it.

Having said that, an SA-3 managed to shoot down an F117 so perhaps I shouldn't use Tom Clancy as some sort of bible

[AreOut]

Countdown said:

The S-300 has been around for a while. I'd be surprised if the US and Israel haven't developed countermeasures against it.

S-300 is supposedly very good at detecting chaffs&flares so once it's fired the only countermeasure could be AWACS telling the pilot very early to get as low as possible and follow terrain

[Countdown]

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israel-tra...

So the Greeks (members of NATO) have had a version of the S300 for a while...I'm guessing that the US aren't overly worried...

[Globs]

Countdown said:

So the Greeks (members of NATO) have had a version of the S300 for a while...I'm guessing that the US aren't overly worried...

The Greeks share a similar orthodox religion to Russia and were quite upset when the US told them they were now forbidden to trade with Russia.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gre...

I'm not sure being NATO makes much difference, they've been overshadowed by Turkey for some time now.

All NATO membership means is that the US may put any missile system it likes in your country, use it for any purpose without telling you, and that you're not allowed to touch it. Oh and probably put in or use a base as they see fit.

It's not all bad though, in return for being a vassal you don't get bombed, so it's a big boys version of the old mafia protection rackets. You still may get cleaned out financially, told who you can't trade with and lose your sovereignty that way of course, but you still don't get bombed. It's all part of being an ancient, proud, dependent nation.

[Rogue86]

On a more obvious note though, it means they will have access to the technology they need to combat against.

[Budflicker]

Countdown said:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israel-tra...

So the Greeks (members of NATO) have had a version of the S300 for a while...I'm guessing that the US aren't overly worried...

S400 deployed in Syria with the new S500 on the way in the next couple of years.

S400 much more advanced than the S300.

On the Putin interviews, really interesting to watch, also good to watch is the unedited interview with Megyn Kelly who got comppletly destroyed and was way out of her depth with Putin.
Like him or loathe him, Putiin is a true statesman and makes all of the current crop of western politicians look inept and unprincipled.
He is also playing a blinding long game in the middle east at the moment.

[Countdown]

Budflicker said:

On the Putin interviews, really interesting to watch, also good to watch is the unedited interview with Megyn Kelly who got comppletly destroyed and was way out of her depth with Putin.
Like him or loathe him, Putiin is a true statesman and makes all of the current crop of western politicians look inept and unprincipled.
He is also playing a blinding long game in the middle east at the moment.

I had to google the definition of Stateman and it suggested somebody who has the following

- A bedrock of principles
- A moral compass
- A vision
- The ability to build consensus to achieve that vision

I'd suggest running what is effectively a gangster oligarchy which locks up any rivals suggests a complete lack of morals. Arguably he has the others but not necessarily in a good way. From A Russian citizen point of view I'm sure he's a good thing.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Countdown said:

I had to google the definition of Stateman and it suggested somebody who has the following

- A bedrock of principles
- A moral compass
- A vision
- The ability to build consensus to achieve that vision

I'd suggest running what is effectively a gangster oligarchy which locks up any rivals suggests a complete lack of morals. Arguably he has the others but not necessarily in a good way. From A Russian citizen point of view I'm sure he's a good thing.

Nothing says the principles have to be morally correct as judged by you.
Nothing says his moral compass has to agree with yours, and even if it does, stop him acting in the 'wrong' direction consistently.
Certainly has a strong vision.
Nothing says the consensus can't be built through strength, intimidation etc.

So yes, statesman fits.

Anyway, vast majority of dictionary definitions just say things like skilled and experienced.

[Budflicker]

Countdown said:

I had to google the definition of Stateman and it suggested somebody who has the following

- A bedrock of principles
- A moral compass
- A vision
- The ability to build consensus to achieve that vision

I'd suggest running what is effectively a gangster oligarchy which locks up any rivals suggests a complete lack of morals. Arguably he has the others but not necessarily in a good way. From A Russian citizen point of view I'm sure he's a good thing.

In your opinion does he make the current crop of western politicians look inept and unprincipled?

Or are May, Trump and Merkal better heads of state?

[Countdown]

Budflicker said:

In your opinion does he make the current crop of western politicians look inept and unprincipled?

Or are May, Trump and Merkal better heads of state?

I think Trump would love to be Putin. Complete scum in my book

With regards to May and Putin, yes I believe they're far better heads of State. I don't agree with all their policies but I'd much rather live in a country governed by one of them than one ruled by somebody who kills at will anybody he considers a problem.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Interview with ray Mc Govern on the escalation in Syria.

http://raymcgovern.com/2017/06/21/ray-on-the-lates...

[Globs]

Countdown said:

I'd suggest running what is effectively a gangster oligarchy which locks up any rivals suggests a complete lack of morals. Arguably he has the others but not necessarily in a good way. From A Russian citizen point of view I'm sure he's a good thing.

Yet you appear to have no problems with the oligarchs in Ukraine who are draining the wealth from the people unlucky enough to live there. The average Crimean must still be breathing sighs of relief, unlike the fate of the Ukrainians, many of whom stopped breathing some time ago: notice how each McCain visit is followed by more attacks and violence on the east.

If you'd bothered to study or even to watch the interviews you'd know that Putin only made the existing oligarchs obey the law. That is why the Russian standard of living is rising: it's basic wealth distribution and equality, something Putin is working hard on and the benefits are felt by the hundreds of millions of Russians. Why do you think he's so popular - because he robs them??? Duh.

Contrast that with the US - officially now an Oligarchy according to studies from Harvard and elsewhere, where the masses are getting poorer and the rich few and getting richer. Look at some debt/GDP and inequality charts from the US vs Russia.

But apart from study, stop contradicting yourself: how can the Russian citizen benefit if he's an oligarch gangster? Either you support the oligarchs and widen wealth inequality, or you shut them down and make them obey the law and narrow it.

The first part of your statement accuses Putin of widening the gap, the second acknowledges that he's closing the gap.
Please at least be consistent with your russiaphobia.

[skyrover]

Globs said:

Yet you appear to have no problems with the oligarchs in Ukraine who are draining the wealth from the people unlucky enough to live there. The average Crimean must still be breathing sighs of relief, unlike the fate of the Ukrainians, many of whom stopped breathing some time ago: notice how each McCain visit is followed by more attacks and violence on the east.

It would appear life under Russian rule isn't all that great... quelle surprise

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-c...

Edited by skyrover on Saturday 24th June 10:59

[Globs]

skyrover said:

It would appear life under Russia rule isn't all that great... quelle surprise

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-c...

Reuters say that do they? What a surprise.
Remember they were trashed in the early1990s and are still recovering, but things are improving sharply.

What's our excuse?

ETA: You don't have to look very far for reuters lack of integrity.
http://www.zombietime.com/reuters_photo_fraud/
Etc.

Edited by Globs on Saturday 24th June 11:03

[skyrover]

Zombie times?

Anyhow... why not ask the tartars how they feel about Russian occupation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/07/special...

[Globs]

skyrover said:

Zombie times?

Anyhow... why not ask the tartars how they feel about Russian occupation

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/07/special...

Yeah, cool name - the article is full of actual examples of Reuters faking news. I think they even got fined for it once: it was a mainstream story a few years ago in the UK, I think even the BBC reported it at the time.

And then there is the Telegraph, is that really a paper to trust about what's best for a population?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3...

Telegraph said:

The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Iraqi dissidents are an embarrassment to the Left. After enduring misery few of us can imagine, they have discovered that, without foreign intervention, their country won't be freed from a tyrant who matches Stalin in his success in liquidating domestic opponents. Only America can intervene. Therefore an American invasion offers the possibility of salvation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8514140/Inside-the-art-deco-war-room-for-Nato-on-Libya.html

Telegraph said:

In particular he wants Nato to review the current restrictions on attacking the regime's infrastructure. At present Nato is limited to attacking those targets, such as tanks and heavy artillery, that pose a direct threat to Libya's civilian population. Under UN Security Council resolutions 1970 and 1973, which authorise the Nato mission, one of the main objectives is to prevent attacks against Libyan civilians.

There's badly wrong, totally wrong, and then the Telegraph.

You think the Tartars would be happier in a civil war with 45% inflation and declining employment and living standards?
Or do you in fact not give a st about the Crimean people and their lucky escape from death, war, famine and depression and just look at the russiaphobic political scorecard?

Would you like to read about how successful the western coup winners are in the Ukraine in your favourite paper?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12072...

Telegraph said:

Inflation will hit 44pc in Ukraine this year, as the embattled economy has seen prices soar amid economic collapse.
Consumer prices have hit eye-watering levels in 2015, according to the country's central bank governor. Inflation averaged 24.9pc in 2014.

all blamed on Russia despite the fact one the two small counties to the RHS + Crimea at the bottom have rejected the illegitimate neo-nazi regime. You'd think the remaining country would at least manage to make ends meet with the awesome light of US and EU capitalism and organisation wouldn't you?


Imagine you are a russian speaking Crimean: What would you have voted for? The illegitimate neo-nazis coup winners next door who almost passed a bill banning the Russian language and were wrecking the country and bombing their own people in the east, or the Russian federation which is a stable area of gaining prosperity.

Their huge attendance and overwhelming vote was to join the Russian federation: who exactly are you to disapprove of what they want? Are we not supposed to support democracy and doesn't the UN Charter provide for self determination?

Tell me, how much interest in Tartar welfare have you had in the past? I suspect this is a sudden, new interest for you.
Exactly how much happier would you if Crimea was still in the Ukraine and suffering like the rest of it?

[Countdown]

Globs said:

Yet you appear to have no problems with the oligarchs in Ukraine who are draining the wealth from the people unlucky enough to live there.

I've no idea why you would make that assumption. We haven't been discussing the Ukrainian oligarchs and I haven't been giving thme much thought. I suppose I would have done if they'd been assasinating individuals on UK soil and interfering with US elections but, so far, I don't think they have.

Globs said:

If you'd bothered to study or even to watch the interviews you'd know that Putin only made the existing oligarchs obey the law. That is why the Russian standard of living is rising: it's basic wealth distribution and equality, something Putin is working hard on and the benefits are felt by the hundreds of millions of Russians. Why do you think he's so popular - because he robs them??? Duh.

You'll have to excuse my cynicism about his "popularity". If he was that popular he wouldn't feel the need to lock up his political rivals.

Globs said:

But apart from study, stop contradicting yourself: how can the Russian citizen benefit if he's an oligarch gangster? Either you support the oligarchs and widen wealth inequality, or you shut them down and make them obey the law and narrow it.The first part of your statement accuses Putin of widening the gap, the second acknowledges that he's closing the gap.
Please at least be consistent with your russiaphobia.

Again, something I've never said. Are you arguing with me or somebody else?

FWIW I'm a ttaphobe. Both Trump and Putin score highly in that respect.

[Budflicker]

Countdown said:

I think Trump would love to be Putin. Complete scum in my book

With regards to May and Putin, yes I believe they're far better heads of State. I don't agree with all their policies but I'd much rather live in a country governed by one of them than one ruled by somebody who kills at will anybody he considers a problem.

Go and watch the Putin interviews with either Stone or Kelly, then watch Teresa Mays interviews in the recent election and then please explain how May seems more sincere, intelligent or statesman like than Putin?

She's a bluthering collection of soundbites constantly avoiding answering any question she's been asked.

[scherzkeks]

Budflicker said:

Countdown said:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Report-Israel-tra...

So the Greeks (members of NATO) have had a version of the S300 for a while...I'm guessing that the US aren't overly worried...

S400 deployed in Syria with the new S500 on the way in the next couple of years.

S400 much more advanced than the S300.

On the Putin interviews, really interesting to watch, also good to watch is the unedited interview with Megyn Kelly who got comppletly destroyed and was way out of her depth with Putin.
Like him or loathe him, Putiin is a true statesman and makes all of the current crop of western politicians look inept and unprincipled.
He is also playing a blinding long game in the middle east at the moment.

The Kelly interview was great. She is emblematic of all that is wrong with US media. A news-reader, nothing more.

Likewise, much of the populace who've been brainwashed over years with binary viewpoints from our government stenographers and the occasional tear-jerker to drive the talking points into the deepest recesses of the limbic system are not equipped at even the most basic level to deconstruct world events, or understand anything beyond the superficial.

"I hate Putin!"