Proprietary Trading
Discussion
FadeTrade said:
Ok, I'll bite.
Everyday there are at least 1 high impact news announcement from UK/Europe or the U.S. These can cause movements from 15 pips upto 200+ pips in the space of minutes. If you're in a trade pre announcement and happen to be on the wrong side, quite simply you'll get your stop slipped considerably if it's a big move due to liquidity issues in the market.
Below is EURJPY from the March NFP. A 50 pip spike higher then an immediate reversal to fresh lows. That is solely caused by a fundamental shift, no indicator or pattern will tell you that would happen.
Well I must admit I've learnt something new today, and for that I thank you. I had asked for an eg. where it's gapped up/down, and my understanding of a gap up/down was where it unexpectedly jumps up/down where there is a difference in the close/open price between bars, but did'nt relise you proffesionals call what I thought to be a "spike up/down" a gap up/down.Everyday there are at least 1 high impact news announcement from UK/Europe or the U.S. These can cause movements from 15 pips upto 200+ pips in the space of minutes. If you're in a trade pre announcement and happen to be on the wrong side, quite simply you'll get your stop slipped considerably if it's a big move due to liquidity issues in the market.
Below is EURJPY from the March NFP. A 50 pip spike higher then an immediate reversal to fresh lows. That is solely caused by a fundamental shift, no indicator or pattern will tell you that would happen.
In this example that you've given my night before trade analysis would only tell me that I'm looking for a long above a certain price point. I would be looking for a long, and the only time it triggered was at 17.55(on 200 tick chart) with a 1:1.5 ratio in my favour, but honestly speaking I would not be in this trade, as I would have switched off the laptop way before then, and would have taken a high prob/low risk trade well before then.
In the eg. you gave I don't care if its been going long since 7am, and nor do I wish I'd bought a bottom, and sold at the top(althoug I would'nt mind it). All I know is that I have to control my fear, and greed, and just trade what i see.
If a trade does not get triggered I'm not bothered/in a rush to trade, if I have not done my analysis the night before, then again I won't risk a trade even if it was a once in a lifetime dead cert.
Regards
Mr. Fox.
Just a quick point, I didn't realise MR Fox was the guy from the other thread. Can people ask him questions about his trading on that thread and keep this one about proprietary trading proper, before it derails in to a replica of the last thread and what had the makings of an interesting journey for Fair Trade is lost.
Thanks.
Thanks.
R11ysf said:
Just a quick point, I didn't realise MR Fox was the guy from the other thread. Can people ask him questions about his trading on that thread and keep this one about proprietary trading proper, before it derails in to a replica of the last thread and what had the makings of an interesting journey for Fair Trade is lost.
Thanks.
Yes I completely agree with you, and please let me appologise once again for the thread diversion. I will start a new topic in which people can ask all they wish.Thanks.
Regards
Mr. Fox.
Mr fox said:
I assure you I'm not being condesending at all, and know how hard this path we choose is, and short of giving my statagy away(and why should I when I've paid good money for it), I'm all for helping others, and more importantly learning from others(and learning from others does not mean I want to know your edge).
Yes please I really would like you to explain it to me if you can. Also can you give me an example when the market has gapped up or down say 20+ pips, and I'll let you know how it would have affected me.
Regards
Mr. Fox.
Although the joy of FX liquidity means that you can actually securely vend a successful strategy without impinging on your own activity and thus create a significant increase in revenue. The hurdle is the fact that 99% of 'systems' are scams and the market is well versed.Yes please I really would like you to explain it to me if you can. Also can you give me an example when the market has gapped up or down say 20+ pips, and I'll let you know how it would have affected me.
Regards
Mr. Fox.
R11ysf said:
Just a quick point, I didn't realise MR Fox was the guy from the other thread. Can people ask him questions about his trading on that thread and keep this one about proprietary trading proper, before it derails in to a replica of the last thread and what had the makings of an interesting journey for Fair Trade is lost.
Thanks.
Evening Rhys, did you get my reply the other day?Thanks.
Tim
I've been going a lot better the last couple of weeks, mainly due to me changing my hedge ratio. I've always felt my ability to read ZN is far stronger than XT and always do my most work in ZN. I've decided to be a little more aggressive with ZN and whilst the spread has been a little more compliant I also feel the slight change in ratios is helping me with my confidence also.
Nice to be on a little heater but as always, can turn on a dime so I'm sure I'll be back with a tale of woe soon enough!
Nice to be on a little heater but as always, can turn on a dime so I'm sure I'll be back with a tale of woe soon enough!
Well May turned out to be a great month, some 3.5x better than my previous best month. Hopefully the good streak can continue into June.
Bonds have certainly been pretty volatile and tricky to scalp on occasions, my best trades have definitely been spread trades.
I did have an absolute nightmare on the night Bernanke was speaking when the US 10 yr (Tnote) zipped up 6-7 ticks pretty quickly and then got absolutely murdered. I'd left an order in the book and it got filled and then spent a very nervous 30-40 seconds trying to hedge it or even just exit it. Prices were just vanishing and couldn't get an exit. Ended up costing me 2-3 days work but did lead to a very strong end to the month.
Bonds have certainly been pretty volatile and tricky to scalp on occasions, my best trades have definitely been spread trades.
I did have an absolute nightmare on the night Bernanke was speaking when the US 10 yr (Tnote) zipped up 6-7 ticks pretty quickly and then got absolutely murdered. I'd left an order in the book and it got filled and then spent a very nervous 30-40 seconds trying to hedge it or even just exit it. Prices were just vanishing and couldn't get an exit. Ended up costing me 2-3 days work but did lead to a very strong end to the month.
FadeTrade said:
I did have an absolute nightmare on the night Bernanke was speaking when the US 10 yr (Tnote) zipped up 6-7 ticks pretty quickly and then got absolutely murdered. I'd left an order in the book and it got filled and then spent a very nervous 30-40 seconds trying to hedge it or even just exit it. Prices were just vanishing and couldn't get an exit. Ended up costing me 2-3 days work but did lead to a very strong end to the month.
Sounds like the Betfair exchange.FadeTrade said:
I did have an absolute nightmare on the night Bernanke was speaking when the US 10 yr (Tnote) zipped up 6-7 ticks pretty quickly and then got absolutely murdered. I'd left an order in the book and it got filled and then spent a very nervous 30-40 seconds trying to hedge it or even just exit it. Prices were just vanishing and couldn't get an exit. Ended up costing me 2-3 days work but did lead to a very strong end to the month.
As i wrote before you pay to learn. You've now learnt not to leave orders in during Bernanke! That also goes for Draghi, non-farm payrolls, rate announcements and BofE/ECB press conferences. We've all been there and done it, I won't do it again!May was a good month, some volatility with stable markets and spreads too. More of the same this month would be very pleasing!!
A little update for June now it's pretty much all done and dusted.
I thought May was volatile! June has been extreme from my brief period in Bond markets. I got off to an absolutely awful start in the first week and have pretty much been playing catch up since then. Managed to eek out a small profit but disappointing given the movements. I seem to gone into a sequence of either smashing it and having fantastic nights or being smashed and hitting my stop. I have lost of bit of consistency and it's a little tricky to pinpoint why. I think on my poor nights my bad decisions have been amplified by the movements and to be fair I have made some poor calls in the heat of the moment.
Looking forward to July to try and hone in on my good nights and make them a more popular occurrence
Be interested to hear how any other Bond/Fixed income traders fared in June.
I thought May was volatile! June has been extreme from my brief period in Bond markets. I got off to an absolutely awful start in the first week and have pretty much been playing catch up since then. Managed to eek out a small profit but disappointing given the movements. I seem to gone into a sequence of either smashing it and having fantastic nights or being smashed and hitting my stop. I have lost of bit of consistency and it's a little tricky to pinpoint why. I think on my poor nights my bad decisions have been amplified by the movements and to be fair I have made some poor calls in the heat of the moment.
Looking forward to July to try and hone in on my good nights and make them a more popular occurrence
Be interested to hear how any other Bond/Fixed income traders fared in June.
June was super volatile in stages and dead in others. Overall we were on par for a normal month but some people got hit bu the volatility and others thrived on it.
The signs of tapering are good though and will provide some increased flows going forward. So even if you struggled a bit this month the overall signs are good as it will bring paper back to the market which is what you want.
The signs of tapering are good though and will provide some increased flows going forward. So even if you struggled a bit this month the overall signs are good as it will bring paper back to the market which is what you want.
R11ysf said:
June was super volatile in stages and dead in others. Overall we were on par for a normal month but some people got hit bu the volatility and others thrived on it.
The signs of tapering are good though and will provide some increased flows going forward. So even if you struggled a bit this month the overall signs are good as it will bring paper back to the market which is what you want.
NFP should be very interesting tonight. A good number on the unemployment rate could see US bonds smashed I think. Conversely a weak figure could see a nice rally as tapering may be pushed back longer than initially expected. Hopefully some good trades out there tonight.The signs of tapering are good though and will provide some increased flows going forward. So even if you struggled a bit this month the overall signs are good as it will bring paper back to the market which is what you want.
Another month has whizzed by! Struggled the first 2 weeks with consistency issues with huge gains or huge losses. Too many outrights and not enough spread trades.
Calmed it down somewhat and stuck with the spread a little more whilst still being aggressive on an outright when I feel I can capitalise on legging in/out at a good level.
On for my best month which is a nice sign of progression and hopefully will get more size next week.
Calmed it down somewhat and stuck with the spread a little more whilst still being aggressive on an outright when I feel I can capitalise on legging in/out at a good level.
On for my best month which is a nice sign of progression and hopefully will get more size next week.
I've just spent the last 15 minutes reading this thread and thought I'd give it a revival.
So much has happened in the intervening 3 years that I genuinely don't know where to start. We found out in 2014 my son has a very rare brain disease and this mentally broke me whilst I was trading for the prop firm. I began making poor trading decisions and the small equity I'd built up quickly became a negative account and with mounting desk fees I was in the hole for around $40k. I did manage to make one last run and eventually finished in the green by $10k and walked away. I was working 70-80 hour weeks and with our time zone I wouldn't be getting home until 3-4am and then waking up at 6am to start the normal day with the children. My wife was also selflessly working two jobs to allow me the freedom to chase my trading dream and a strain was showing on our relationship.
I'd be irritable from being dog tired constantly and I'd spend hours contemplating the future for Charlie and the rest of the family. I made the decision that I needed some stability in my life and made the extremely tough decision to walk away from trading to find balance. My son's health and marriage were too important to me to be so invested in trading without giving anything back. So at 30 years old I was unemployed with no real world qualifications other than life experience working in the Engineering sector in Dubai.
I decided that I'd use my passion for cars and try selling them! I've been at it for nearly 2 years and currently work for Mercedes and whilst it isn't what I ultimately want to be doing, the income isn't to be sneezed at.
I took 8 months off from trading altogether and last September I opened an account to begin trading again. I learnt so much in my 18 months at the prop firm and valuable lessons that I wanted to spend some time with trading again. One of the biggest lessons I learnt was capital management and expectations. When I very first started out trading,I very naively bought into the retail hype in forex when I began that it was perfectly possible to make 50% a month month in, month out.My sights are now somewhat lower and if I can make anywhere from 5-10% a month with drawdown under 20% then I'm a very happy trader. My son's diagnosis is very much at the forefront of my mind but now we've dug deeper we have a few things clarified and whilst his future is very much uncertain, for now, he appears a very happy 4 year old.
I have believed for a long time that trading is my passion and future and I will never stop trying to improve myself and my skills and whilst I'm not doing it to the same scale I am slowly building my equity again and finding a nice balance of home life and work. I probably spend 2-3 hours a day watching the charts and trades but not to the same extent as a few years ago.
For anyone interested, I post a few setups on my instagram account @flipfloptradergc.
Also, I've attached a picture of Charlie from an evening down at the beach. He absolutely loves the beach.
So much has happened in the intervening 3 years that I genuinely don't know where to start. We found out in 2014 my son has a very rare brain disease and this mentally broke me whilst I was trading for the prop firm. I began making poor trading decisions and the small equity I'd built up quickly became a negative account and with mounting desk fees I was in the hole for around $40k. I did manage to make one last run and eventually finished in the green by $10k and walked away. I was working 70-80 hour weeks and with our time zone I wouldn't be getting home until 3-4am and then waking up at 6am to start the normal day with the children. My wife was also selflessly working two jobs to allow me the freedom to chase my trading dream and a strain was showing on our relationship.
I'd be irritable from being dog tired constantly and I'd spend hours contemplating the future for Charlie and the rest of the family. I made the decision that I needed some stability in my life and made the extremely tough decision to walk away from trading to find balance. My son's health and marriage were too important to me to be so invested in trading without giving anything back. So at 30 years old I was unemployed with no real world qualifications other than life experience working in the Engineering sector in Dubai.
I decided that I'd use my passion for cars and try selling them! I've been at it for nearly 2 years and currently work for Mercedes and whilst it isn't what I ultimately want to be doing, the income isn't to be sneezed at.
I took 8 months off from trading altogether and last September I opened an account to begin trading again. I learnt so much in my 18 months at the prop firm and valuable lessons that I wanted to spend some time with trading again. One of the biggest lessons I learnt was capital management and expectations. When I very first started out trading,I very naively bought into the retail hype in forex when I began that it was perfectly possible to make 50% a month month in, month out.My sights are now somewhat lower and if I can make anywhere from 5-10% a month with drawdown under 20% then I'm a very happy trader. My son's diagnosis is very much at the forefront of my mind but now we've dug deeper we have a few things clarified and whilst his future is very much uncertain, for now, he appears a very happy 4 year old.
I have believed for a long time that trading is my passion and future and I will never stop trying to improve myself and my skills and whilst I'm not doing it to the same scale I am slowly building my equity again and finding a nice balance of home life and work. I probably spend 2-3 hours a day watching the charts and trades but not to the same extent as a few years ago.
For anyone interested, I post a few setups on my instagram account @flipfloptradergc.
Also, I've attached a picture of Charlie from an evening down at the beach. He absolutely loves the beach.
Thought I'd give another update with the end of year in sight.
Trading has been going very well and all things being well should be finishing at equity highs and very much looking forward to 2017. Have managed to keep drawdown under 16% and maintain a good growth rate which has been aided by the boost in volatility since Brexit and other market factors.
Persistence beats resistance!
Trading has been going very well and all things being well should be finishing at equity highs and very much looking forward to 2017. Have managed to keep drawdown under 16% and maintain a good growth rate which has been aided by the boost in volatility since Brexit and other market factors.
Persistence beats resistance!
Well, we're well into 2017 and it has already been an interesting year.
I have been supplementing my trading with a full time job but on February 1 I left that role and have been trading full time. It is a good 6 months earlier than anticipated but my heart and mind simply were not on the job and it was weighing me down massively.
So far it's been a great 6 weeks or so, adapting to a new routine and finding areas to keep improving. My wife has probably found it harder to adjust as she has been so used to me being out of the house for 10-12 hours a day. I now get to enjoy school drop offs and pick up! Haha.
Hoping 2017 can keep moving up.
I have been supplementing my trading with a full time job but on February 1 I left that role and have been trading full time. It is a good 6 months earlier than anticipated but my heart and mind simply were not on the job and it was weighing me down massively.
So far it's been a great 6 weeks or so, adapting to a new routine and finding areas to keep improving. My wife has probably found it harder to adjust as she has been so used to me being out of the house for 10-12 hours a day. I now get to enjoy school drop offs and pick up! Haha.
Hoping 2017 can keep moving up.
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