private school fees
Discussion
Op, just a thought... have you looked into a Jesuit school? Growing up, I went to Wimbledon College, which at the time was run by one Father Holman (who went on to become the head Jesuit in the U.K...); my education was fantastic and looking back now, I'm sure rivaled the local toff schools. Yes perhaps Roman Catholicism isn't your particular flavor of religion, but growing up there were kids from all different backgrounds. Just giving you some food for thought....
EddieSteadyGo said:
Sure we have the odd luxury from time to time, but there are no McLarens or Ferraris in my garage lol.
^ This. The opportunity cost of 5 years at a top boarding school is roughly on a par with a new Aston Martin. It doesn't end there - the cost of student fees and accommodation in London knocking on another £100k.
Still, if I spend the money this way I am controlling what it gets spent on. If I leave it as inheritance it is (i) taxed to b*ggery and (ii) spent by the beneficiary, possibly in ways I would not approve of
.Peter
I went to a good private local school. There was a lot of competition to get in and the standards were high. The facilities were OK. Bit tired, but OK. Now the same school has the most amazing facilities, but the academic standards are not as good. Any private school has a basic business model - we need £X to work, we can accommodate 1,000 pupils, so we know what the fees will be. If demand for that school starts to fall, they have to lower standards as they still need those 1,000 bums on seats, so you still end up paying but not getting the same level of education.
When I went, the fees were affordable. When I look at it now, there's no way I could afford it, and my parents say the same. Fees have increased dramatically over the last few years, meaning they are a far bigger proportion of income than they used to be. Thankfully we have a few 11+ grammars near us, so I escaped this particular millstone!
Last thing - think whether all that money is worth it over the child's lifetime. Say it's £200,000 for 10 years of fees. Would their life be better if they went to a free school and that £200,000 could go on a house deposit? Crystal ball time...
When I went, the fees were affordable. When I look at it now, there's no way I could afford it, and my parents say the same. Fees have increased dramatically over the last few years, meaning they are a far bigger proportion of income than they used to be. Thankfully we have a few 11+ grammars near us, so I escaped this particular millstone!
Last thing - think whether all that money is worth it over the child's lifetime. Say it's £200,000 for 10 years of fees. Would their life be better if they went to a free school and that £200,000 could go on a house deposit? Crystal ball time...
My kids go to a private school and, like the OP, I'm often scratching my head at how some of the parents afford it (despite us living in a City commuter town in the south-east). There is definitely a lot of grandparent involvement.
My wife (private girls' school educated) and I (northern comp educated) do think quite carefully about the sums involved. Someone said earlier that an income of £150k pa minimum was needed for 2 kids, and I don't think that's too far off the mark for my kids' school.
A gross of £150k pa is about £90k net and the fees are £20k-£25k pa each at the senior school (they are lower during the prep years). So that means a "net of school fees" net income of £45k which is about a gross income of £70k. So someone on £150k pa is effectively on an income of more like £70k pa if they choose private schooling.
If the gross was "only" £100k pa, using the same logic would mean an effective "net of school fees" gross income of not much more than £30k. You'd still have food on the table but there wouldn't be many holidays.
We have decent savings and a small mortgage - if not, we might not have been able to afford private schooling. We recently decided not to add an extension to the house because it would eat too much into our savings that are likely to be needed during the last few years. As it is, we're pretty thrifty on holidays (relative to our aggregate gross income), although both of us quite enjoy more basic holidays than decadent ones. We also drive older/cheaper cars than a lot of my old school friends expect (they can't understand why I don't have a Porsche at least given their guess at my income).
But it's worth it - not just for the higher grades my kids are likely to get compared with the local State school options, but mainly for the softer, nurturing side of things which mean they grow up very rounded and confident.
My wife (private girls' school educated) and I (northern comp educated) do think quite carefully about the sums involved. Someone said earlier that an income of £150k pa minimum was needed for 2 kids, and I don't think that's too far off the mark for my kids' school.
A gross of £150k pa is about £90k net and the fees are £20k-£25k pa each at the senior school (they are lower during the prep years). So that means a "net of school fees" net income of £45k which is about a gross income of £70k. So someone on £150k pa is effectively on an income of more like £70k pa if they choose private schooling.
If the gross was "only" £100k pa, using the same logic would mean an effective "net of school fees" gross income of not much more than £30k. You'd still have food on the table but there wouldn't be many holidays.
We have decent savings and a small mortgage - if not, we might not have been able to afford private schooling. We recently decided not to add an extension to the house because it would eat too much into our savings that are likely to be needed during the last few years. As it is, we're pretty thrifty on holidays (relative to our aggregate gross income), although both of us quite enjoy more basic holidays than decadent ones. We also drive older/cheaper cars than a lot of my old school friends expect (they can't understand why I don't have a Porsche at least given their guess at my income).
But it's worth it - not just for the higher grades my kids are likely to get compared with the local State school options, but mainly for the softer, nurturing side of things which mean they grow up very rounded and confident.
My OH went to state secondary, private sixth, then on to Kings College, Cambridge and is now a barrister and part time judge.
Our eldest starts secondary school end of the summer and is going to a fee paying school. Hopefully his younger brother will joining him very soon.
The school he will be going to is sensational, in terms of their results, ethos and abundance of opportunity. The school has already taken great steps to understand his personality and is very excited about the new school and I am very pleased for him, if a little envious.
In terms of affordability, I am looking forward to our boys seeing a work hard ethic over the next 10 years :-)
Our eldest starts secondary school end of the summer and is going to a fee paying school. Hopefully his younger brother will joining him very soon.
The school he will be going to is sensational, in terms of their results, ethos and abundance of opportunity. The school has already taken great steps to understand his personality and is very excited about the new school and I am very pleased for him, if a little envious.
In terms of affordability, I am looking forward to our boys seeing a work hard ethic over the next 10 years :-)
My son went to a private junior school and now is at a grammar school. As I'm from a working class background (now very much middle class), I had a very strange expectation of private schools based on my upbringing.....I expected the school to be full of posh geniuses with idiot parents with more money than sense. I was pleasantly surprised to find plenty of hard working families who sacrificed to have their children at the school.....and even the rich ones were OK :-).
We had a massive debate when he was young...I was all for state school & not private. Looking back, the early years learning at the private school was excellent and gave superb grounding for future development. On top of the academic support, they were able to be inclusive on all aspect of the curriculum (sports, music etc etc) which allowed for a greater level of experiences than I think he would have had in local state school.
I was cringing when it came time for local 11+ as another 7 years of private would have been expensive, but he smashed the 11+ and walked into a state grammar school that he now loves.
It might have been a different story with 2 to pay for though !! In the end, there is no right or wrong. I, and plenty of others, have done alright out of the state system. Plenty fall by the wayside from private. Do what you think is right and can afford.
We had a massive debate when he was young...I was all for state school & not private. Looking back, the early years learning at the private school was excellent and gave superb grounding for future development. On top of the academic support, they were able to be inclusive on all aspect of the curriculum (sports, music etc etc) which allowed for a greater level of experiences than I think he would have had in local state school.
I was cringing when it came time for local 11+ as another 7 years of private would have been expensive, but he smashed the 11+ and walked into a state grammar school that he now loves.
It might have been a different story with 2 to pay for though !! In the end, there is no right or wrong. I, and plenty of others, have done alright out of the state system. Plenty fall by the wayside from private. Do what you think is right and can afford.
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 12th July 14:08
Behemoth said:
The air of confidence (read entitlement) is true. It works for even the dimwits. It's landed a brace of our local private school's output vocations as Estate Agents. Not the kind of career I'd want to see after years of £££ outlay.
And if they hadn't gone to private school, what sort of career would have been acceptable to you for a couple of dimwits without much confidence?JakeT said:
A few years ago, my parents offered to send me to Bradfield College for my six form studies. The fees there are the best part of 30 grand for a year. Wasn't my thing, and didn't want to leave my friends. I would have still done poorly in my A-levels anyway!
Hmm...OK, perhaps I am out of touch.ETA - I know this is like comparing London house prices, but my two local private schools in the NW have better (in one case a lot better) results at A Level and they cost 10 grand a year.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Wednesday 12th July 16:07
I went to private school until 11 and both my brothers went to Charterhouse. Most people I meet who consider this for their own kids didn't go themselves and to be honest, what I learned in later education by having good, "normal" mates, playing football and being with girls, taught me more about real life than private/boarding school ever could.
As a consequence of my owm education, I decided to find my children the best state school I could and I'm really happy with their progress. Private education is no guarantee of success in latet life IMHO.
As a consequence of my owm education, I decided to find my children the best state school I could and I'm really happy with their progress. Private education is no guarantee of success in latet life IMHO.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 12th July 16:00
z4RRSchris said:
ours is £31k a year, 7 kids. 15 years each.
the old man sold his house in London and paid it all up front with a decent discount.
Your dad paid somewhere near £3m quid for his kids educations?the old man sold his house in London and paid it all up front with a decent discount.
I dont think I could ever square that with what I percieve to be limited benefits.
Personally I dont think its worth it, If someone wants to do well then they will. I understand these fees go towards guaranteeing good grades but IMO a person should work to have a good job/career.
I went to a "regular" non fee paying high school/further ed. My parents make less than 25k combined and I grew up in a council house. I am now at a top 5 redbrick university through hard work and dedication and most other people on my course (the ones I have met anyway) are all from paying schools, its a little bit ridiculous really how you can effectively pay your child into a good university, anyway I digress.
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
If you need to pay for them to do well do they really deserve to do well?
I went to a "regular" non fee paying high school/further ed. My parents make less than 25k combined and I grew up in a council house. I am now at a top 5 redbrick university through hard work and dedication and most other people on my course (the ones I have met anyway) are all from paying schools, its a little bit ridiculous really how you can effectively pay your child into a good university, anyway I digress.
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
If you need to pay for them to do well do they really deserve to do well?
TheLuke said:
Personally I dont think its worth it, If someone wants to do well then they will. I understand these fees go towards guaranteeing good grades but IMO a person should work to have a good job/career.
I went to a "regular" non fee paying high school/further ed. My parents make less than 25k combined and I grew up in a council house. I am now at a top 5 redbrick university through hard work and dedication and most other people on my course (the ones I have met anyway) are all from paying schools, its a little bit ridiculous really how you can effectively pay your child into a good university, anyway I digress.
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
If you need to pay for them to do well do they really deserve to do well?
I think that's a bit unfair. While you have obviously worked hard to get there, I don't think anyone is suggesting that kids from public school don't work hard. They still have to get the grades. No school however is expensive is going to get a right dimmo 3 A*s. He might however get Bs and Cs as opposed to Es at a Comp.I went to a "regular" non fee paying high school/further ed. My parents make less than 25k combined and I grew up in a council house. I am now at a top 5 redbrick university through hard work and dedication and most other people on my course (the ones I have met anyway) are all from paying schools, its a little bit ridiculous really how you can effectively pay your child into a good university, anyway I digress.
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
If you need to pay for them to do well do they really deserve to do well?
TheLuke said:
I suppose you there is an argument for sending them to a paying school as quite clearly it works but dont you also want your children to work for what they have.
Sorry but this is a ludicrous statement. My son went to one of the "top" public schools and what he mainly got out of it was a work ethic which would put most of us to shame, a willingness to take responsibility for himself and his actions, a very healthy disregard for authority and excellent manners. He is as far from a snowflake as it possible to be. This is true of most of his friends and many others from several such schools whom I know.
The school was massively intolerant of idleness and strong on pointing out how privileged these boys were and what their responsibilities towards society were. It didn't mind failure so long as the boys tried, and tried hard.
Do not get me wrong - I'm sure there are schools in the state sector that do all this but to suggest that the ethos in the private sector is one where entitled teenagers sit around having grapes dropped into their mouths is simply wrong.
As for the question of needing to pay for them to do well and really deserving to do well, you are assuming that parents need to pay. They generally don't need to but, certainly in my case, want to keep their children from a teaching culture infected with PC drivel, where mediocrity is the norm and everybody wins prizes. Again, it might be different outside London, but I wouldn't put my worst enemy's dog in most of the schools round here
I think the point is that, as in other sectors, where there is a choice, people who can afford not to avail themselves of what the State provides tend not to use public services.
Zigster said:
And if they hadn't gone to private school, what sort of career would have been acceptable to you for a couple of dimwits without much confidence?
Anything gainful and legal. A major investment in education should really deliver better results than an EA in a stripey mini.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff