Crypto Currency Thread

[mizx]

Have been looking for an excuse to post for a few days, but thought I might as well post.

Decided to invest in some cryptos with a small amount of money (few hundred) last week out of interest really. There's things in the back of my mind about them too, but like to I think sussed what it means to be investing in this over other investments. Spent a while reading up, various YT channels etc. then chose I couple I agreed looked promising and Iiked the look of technically/the project in general.

Picked up some LSK, VTC, NAV and XVG, then bought 2.5 Litecoin yesterday.

LSK and LTC more or less joint largest holding, about the same in VTC and NAV, XVG smallest.

Things have been interesting the last few days with Lisk and Verge!, not buying into the fud that's being thrown about though

Edited by mizx on Thursday 23 November 23:36

[Ted2]

Behemoth said:

Ted2 said:

Are you sure about that? The current last 100 BTC transaction fees from the fee tracker :

TRANSACTION FEES PAID (LAST 100 TRANSACTIONS)
Txn fee (BTC) Txn fee USD
Bitcoin (lowest) 0.000896 $ 7.3229
Bitcoin (median) 0.002614 $ 21.3661
Bitcoin (highest) 0.100000 $ 817.2840

Given that on r/bitcoin people are reporting transactions made 3 days ago with the lowest fee still haven't confirmed (unsurprisingly), I am curious to know what your definition of a "negligible" fee is. Looking at the blockchain data for confirmation times from "a couple of days ago" shows an average confirmation time of 420 minutes and that is based on median fees for the period which have typically been around $7-10. In order for it to have confirmed and arrived within 10 mins would have required a ridiculous fee to move it that fast. I think you're being rather economical with the truth Mr. B !

Yes, 100% certain. Just for you, I am looking at the tx right now on the blockchain. 0.002 & block explorer confirmed 5 minutes

I am still struggling to believe you, no offence! If BTC transactions were being confirmed and processed in 5 mins then why are people paying an $817 fee? Granted, that one was a tad extreme but a current check of the latest 100 transaction fees below still shows them peaking in the upper hundreds which makes no sense at all when you're claiming that your transactions are confirming in 5 mins with a "negligible fee". What exactly is this "negligible fee" in USD please?

Txn fee (BTC) Txn fee USD
Bitcoin (lowest) 0.000825 $ 6.6312
Bitcoin (median) 0.001009 $ 8.1094
Bitcoin (highest) 0.080703 $ 648.7513

[M511]

Ted2 said:

I am still struggling to believe you, no offence! If BTC transactions were being confirmed and processed in 5 mins then why are people paying an $817 fee? Granted, that one was a tad extreme but a current check of the latest 100 transaction fees below still shows them peaking in the upper hundreds which makes no sense at all when you're claiming that your transactions are confirming in 5 mins with a "negligible fee". What exactly is this "negligible fee" in USD please?

Txn fee (BTC) Txn fee USD
Bitcoin (lowest) 0.000825 $ 6.6312
Bitcoin (median) 0.001009 $ 8.1094
Bitcoin (highest) 0.080703 $ 648.7513

Do you actually understand how bitcoin calculates its transaction fees? The amounts I buy and sell every day I would get charged eye watering fees from banks (transatlantic fees). My median fee transaction today was 0.0003888 so about $3 give or take. The older your wallet is the less you pay and the quicker the transaction take. Mine are usually completed at a median of 9 minutes, Ripple is 12 seconds.

[M511]

Someone earlier said this is like one big Ponzi scheme but even if you invested in every ICO this year you would still make an average of 1000% return, so I believe the crypto is here to stay.

The only interesting thing about this forum is it seems people are just investing based on gut feel rather than any sound analysis, could I be wrong?

[Ted2]

g4ry13 said:

Currently, it's just XRP as I said earlier. I'm new to 'investing' in these coins but have been watching/reading from the sides for quite a few years.

I would consider investing into Dash as that appears to be a good one. Maybe i'll pick up some Ethereum, and trade Ethereum classic - if they retrace to something i'm comfortable buying. In the current market it seems that buying on big drops and some of the 'lesser' coins such as IOTA/NEO/Monero are profitable strategies but who knows for how long that will be?

My main gripe about the Crypto stuff is in the back of my mind I think it screams of a bubble and I guess i'm a bit old school. I don't mind putting £10k into some shares, but I can't see myself putting £10k into coins for the foreseeable future. I'm not really interested in 50% ROI or even doubling it. I put in an amount I am happy to write off and will be hoping to get multiples back from it. In hindsight i'm thinking maybe I should have diversified with other coins. I'm up a measly 10% over the last week or so from XRP.

You've got the right attitude about being happy to lose the amount if it doesn't deliver but a lot of new crypto coins appearing are turning out to be scams and the problem is that it's hard to spot them without spending your entire life doing research and digging on the devs. Even then, it's not hard to write a convincing white paper to hook people in. How do you know who's legit and who isn't? In the early stages at least, you don't.

When I was first getting it I did a lot of reading and this reddit post is good advice and still holds true today: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/3...

No-one can advise you on which coins are "best" or which will make you the most money because no-one knows. You have to do your own research and if you like the sound of it, take a punt. It's much harder than stocks and shares because at least with them the price fluctuations are usually based on real world events happening; with crypto currencies you've got virtually nothing to go on other than gut feeling.

[Ted2]

M511 said:

Ted2 said:

I am still struggling to believe you, no offence! If BTC transactions were being confirmed and processed in 5 mins then why are people paying an $817 fee? Granted, that one was a tad extreme but a current check of the latest 100 transaction fees below still shows them peaking in the upper hundreds which makes no sense at all when you're claiming that your transactions are confirming in 5 mins with a "negligible fee". What exactly is this "negligible fee" in USD please?

Txn fee (BTC) Txn fee USD
Bitcoin (lowest) 0.000825 $ 6.6312
Bitcoin (median) 0.001009 $ 8.1094
Bitcoin (highest) 0.080703 $ 648.7513

Do you actually understand how bitcoin calculates its transaction fees? The amounts I buy and sell every day I would get charged eye watering fees from banks (transatlantic fees). My median fee transaction today was 0.0003888 so about $3 give or take. The older your wallet is the less you pay and the quicker the transaction take.

It's actually the age of the coins, but you only get the low fees if you have some. If you don't have old coins then you're stuck with high fees.

But regardless, my point still stands that a lot of people are going to be paying silly fees to transact with BTC (particularly newer "investors") and it doesn't alter the fact that the coin no longer has any use except for a store of wealth.

[Ted2]

M511 said:

Someone earlier said this is like one big Ponzi scheme but even if you invested in every ICO this year you would still make an average of 1000% return, so I believe the crypto is here to stay.

Citation needed.

M511 said:

The only interesting thing about this forum is it seems people are just investing based on gut feel rather than any sound analysis, could I be wrong?

I am interested to read about this "sound analysis" which you claim to have in nearly all of your posts in this thread. Maybe we could all learn something from you and make average 1000% returns like your good self, presumably?

[bloomen]

M511 said:

Someone earlier said this is like one big Ponzi scheme but even if you invested in every ICO this year you would still make an average of 1000% return, so I believe the crypto is here to stay.

The only interesting thing about this forum is it seems people are just investing based on gut feel rather than any sound analysis, could I be wrong?

I don't believe sound analysis is possible. Whatever fundamentals there just might be are buried under an avalanche of blag, hysteria, misdirection and pumping.

[M511]

Ted2 said:

It's actually the age of the coins, but you only get the low fees if you have some. If you don't have old coins then you're stuck with high fees.

But regardless, my point still stands that a lot of people are going to be paying silly fees to transact with BTC (particularly newer "investors") and it doesn't alter the fact that the coin no longer has any use except for a store of wealth.

Like I said the fees that people talk about on reddit are just people complaining because they are using the wrong tool for the wrong application. Bitcoin is not designed for micro transactions. Yes you are correct if we are going into fine detail (its just assumed if you have a wallet you have coins in it already?).

[M511]

Ted2 said:

M511 said:

Someone earlier said this is like one big Ponzi scheme but even if you invested in every ICO this year you would still make an average of 1000% return, so I believe the crypto is here to stay.

Citation needed.

M511 said:

The only interesting thing about this forum is it seems people are just investing based on gut feel rather than any sound analysis, could I be wrong?

I am interested to read about this "sound analysis" which you claim to have in nearly all of your posts in this thread. Maybe we could all learn something from you and make average 1000% returns like your good self, presumably?

You can just find out returns on this site .. I only used 1000% as a rough number to show that even if you got involved in a lot you will more than likely make some profit. The days of huge ICO returns are gone though, no doubt but I'd much rather risk it on an ICO an ISA.

I can't get to this article because it requires you to remove your ad blocker...

There will always be sceptical people around anything making huge returns. I wonder where most of them are now who would have laughed at people buying Bitcoins. Its fine to be sceptical and actually having a bearish strategy, but being sceptical for the sake of it doesn't bring a good debate.

As for the sound anaylsis, I don't think these threads would tolerate much of it. Like I said to the person before, spend 30mins a day understanding how Candlestick charts work and look into Elliot Wave Theory. I started trading horse prices on Betfair, and for months I was losing money hand over fist. Until I looked if it was possible to even understand how to read the horse trading market. Just being grasping candlesticks I was able to start making money, I made most of it back but then Betfair closed my account. At any point I had realised there is some skill involved, and I can only offer the advice that, before you start trading these volatile products, perhaps trade sports. To understand the patterns of price movements,

Someone earlier when asked why Litecoin would reach $100 didn't give an answer I personally would be happy with. Because if you look at the Litecoin chart for the year, since $35 there hasn't been a significant drop before it goes up (for most people on here as I have mentioned, is it wrong for me to assume you are all looking at your coin value to go up?). In Aug 2017 there was a high of $98 then in September it crashed down to $35. Now its moving back up and is around $75. There is a pattern emerging here and before a big high comes again I would (if I was bullish and wanting the price to go up) wait until a significant drop. https://uk.investing.com/currencies/ltc-usd-candle...

The charts won't tell you what the price will be but you can use them as an indicator to know where the market is going. I could start a seperate thread where we can follow one coin and apply some of this theory to practice but thats like a business consultant saying, I have a free thread offering you business advice. I am not on here to sell or promote my or anyones products.

I was simply trying to understand what strategies people on here might use to determine which ICO to invest in.

Edited by M511 on Friday 24th November 09:38

[M511]

bloomen said:

I don't believe sound analysis is possible. Whatever fundamentals there just might be are buried under an avalanche of blag, hysteria, misdirection and pumping.

Why do you think pumping and dumping is a bad thing? Morally yes it cons people out of their investments, but if you look at in a differnt view you can ride what people are doing.

When I used to trade horses after a long enough time I started to notice huge market manipulation. I didn't agree with this but I just followed what the manipulation was doing and made a few points of it.

There is no one analysis that works more than most, but I think even if you investigate what may work for you, its far better than just going on gut feel and waiting for the news. Because by the time the news breaks out, you're too late.

[Behemoth]

M511 said:

You can just find out returns on this site .. I only used 1000% as a rough number to show that even if you got involved in a lot you will more than likely make some profit. The days of huge ICO returns are gone though, no doubt but I'd much rather risk it on an ICO an ISA.

I can't get to this article because it requires you to remove your ad blocker...

There will always be sceptical people around anything making huge returns. I wonder where most of them are now who would have laughed at people buying Bitcoins. Its fine to be sceptical and actually having a bearish strategy, but being sceptical for the sake of it doesn't bring a good debate.

As for the sound anaylsis, I don't think these threads would tolerate much of it. Like I said to the person before, spend 30mins a day understanding how Candlestick charts work and look into Elliot Wave Theory. I started trading horse prices on Betfair, and for months I was losing money hand over fist. Until I looked if it was possible to even understand how to read the horse trading market. Just being grasping candlesticks I was able to start making money, I made most of it back but then Betfair closed my account. At any point I had realised there is some skill involved, and I can only offer the advice that, before you start trading these volatile products, perhaps trade sports. To understand the patterns of price movements,

Someone earlier when asked why Litecoin would reach $100 didn't give an answer I personally would be happy with. Because if you look at the Litecoin chart for the year, since $35 there hasn't been a significant drop before it goes up (for most people on here as I have mentioned, is it wrong for me to assume you are all looking at your coin value to go up?). In Aug 2017 there was a high of $98 then in September it crashed down to $35. Now its moving back up and is around $75. There is a pattern emerging here and before a big high comes again I would (if I was bullish and wanting the price to go up) wait until a significant drop. https://uk.investing.com/currencies/ltc-usd-candle...

The charts won't tell you what the price will be but you can use them as an indicator to know where the market is going. I could start a seperate thread where we can follow one coin and apply some of this theory to practice but thats like a business consultant saying, I have a free thread offering you business advice. I am not on here to sell or promote my or anyones products.

I was simply trying to understand what strategies people on here might use to determine which ICO to invest in.

Edited by M511 on Friday 24th November 09:38

Well said. You need to work on analysis coin pair by coin pair and back test theories before putting them into practise. There are huge resources out there but you have to put your own hours in if you are going beyond a quick punt. Once you have found something that works, few would just offer it up for nothing, not least because these strategies never get consistent positive returns. You trade through the errors and learn from them. Announced on a forum, you'd spend all day fending off the trolls & pedants.

[M511]

Behemoth said:

Well said. You need to work on analysis coin pair by coin pair and back test theories before putting them into practise. There are huge resources out there but you have to put your own hours in if you are going beyond a quick punt. Once you have found something that works, few would just offer it up for nothing, not least because these strategies never get consistent positive returns. You trade through the errors and learn from them. Announced on a forum, you'd spend all day fending off the trolls & pedants.

I am also here to learn like most people and I like to think we can all help each other in some way to benefit. But I will reiterate, all markets exhibit a pattern. Once you can spot the pattern you will be able to determine the way a market will go.

A good analogy is off a drop a tennis ball from a height of 2m, you probably know how the ball will bounce until it loses momentum. I just use the charts in a similar way, they show momentum and a pattern.

I have never traded XMR but we can use that as a test case as mentioned by Croutons here, and Ted mentioned it earlier too I think? . The basic chart shows a pattern for the price rising, without any TA at all. If we look at 1month chart, there is too much noise, it seems the coin is relatively new and there aren't many data points. But when you look at the 3 month view.. https://uk.investing.com/currencies/xmr-usd-candle... there is a visbile pattern in the way the price is moving.

Disclaimer the following is a laymans explanation to note bore you all, please do not use this as your main investing strategy. I am using it to simplify my example. (Using the 3 month view)
The lowest support point was the price on 2/11/2017 was around $80, then on 10/11/2017 this moved to $100. Draw a trendline following this trajectory and at some point the price will fall between $120 and $140, then depending on world events you can decide your strategy...A high of close to $200 will happen during this period.

If I say anymore I will be giving you a strategy, and thats not what we are for.

[Behemoth]

M511 said:

I am also here to learn like most people and I like to think we can all help each other in some way to benefit. But I will reiterate, all markets exhibit a pattern. Once you can spot the pattern you will be able to determine the way a market will go.

A good analogy is off a drop a tennis ball from a height of 2m, you probably know how the ball will bounce until it loses momentum. I just use the charts in a similar way, they show momentum and a pattern.

I have never traded XMR but we can use that as a test case as mentioned by Croutons here, and Ted mentioned it earlier too I think? . The basic chart shows a pattern for the price rising, without any TA at all. If we look at 1month chart, there is too much noise, it seems the coin is relatively new and there aren't many data points. But when you look at the 3 month view.. https://uk.investing.com/currencies/xmr-usd-candle... there is a visbile pattern in the way the price is moving.

Disclaimer the following is a laymans explanation to note bore you all, please do not use this as your main investing strategy. I am using it to simplify my example. (Using the 3 month view)
The lowest support point was the price on 2/11/2017 was around $80, then on 10/11/2017 this moved to $100. Draw a trendline following this trajectory and at some point the price will fall between $120 and $140, then depending on world events you can decide your strategy...A high of close to $200 will happen during this period.

If I say anymore I will be giving you a strategy, and thats not what we are for.

Snap I've been analysing XMR patterns much of this week. But paired with BTC, not USD. I'm nowhere near a solid approach, just narrowed to a few potential ideas which I'll follow further before applying.

[M511]

Behemoth said:

Snap I've been analysing XMR patterns much of this week. But paired with BTC, not USD. I'm nowhere near a solid approach, just narrowed to a few potential ideas which I'll follow further before applying.

I would definitely be interested in sharing ideas if you are?

I have had the same problem in terms of pairing Crypto/Crypto, so far I have been pairing Crypto/USD on all my trades, its not ideal but there a few players trying to simplify the Crypto/Crypto pairing.

[Croutons]

Would anyone like to send me a Kraken referral link?

Got a few in progress from the other day but trying to get them all nailed asap!

[Croutons]

mizx said:

Have been looking for an excuse to post for a few days, but thought I might as well post.

Decided to invest in some cryptos with a small amount of money (few hundred) last week out of interest really. There's things in the back of my mind about them too, but like to I think sussed what it means to be investing in this over other investments. Spent a while reading up, various YT channels etc. then chose I couple I agreed looked promising and Iiked the look of technically/the project in general.

Picked up some LSK, VTC, NAV and XVG, then bought 2.5 Litecoin yesterday.

LSK and LTC more or less joint largest holding, about the same in VTC and NAV, XVG smallest.

Things have been interesting the last few days with Lisk and Verge!, not buying into the fud that's being thrown about though

Edited by mizx on Thursday 23 November 23:36

Talk us through which exchanges you used (and from what base currency), and what wallet(s) you're keeping them all in, just to save others who ask every other page what they can do.

[anonymous-user]

No one can seriously think they are a good trader because they make money in cryptos. you can read as many books as you want it is pure gambling no better than penny shares. to think any less is pure delusion.

And yes I understand candlesticks and patterns etc, and even it I thought I had a clue I wouldn't tell people I a crypto trader.

[x5x3]

Croutons said:

Would anyone like to send me a Kraken referral link?

Got a few in progress from the other day but trying to get them all nailed asap!

Kraken still has massive performance issues - took me ages to get some ETH off there yesterday.

[Ted2]

x5x3 said:

Croutons said:

Would anyone like to send me a Kraken referral link?

Got a few in progress from the other day but trying to get them all nailed asap!

Kraken still has massive performance issues - took me ages to get some ETH off there yesterday.

I concur. They went to st months ago. I'm surprised that people are still using them to be honest.