Crypto Currency Thread

[anonymous-user]

They are they overt Ponzi ones, they are loads of coins that behave like a Ponzi scheme. DASH , POS coins to a degree Eth, considering it use and price is being fueled by scammy coins.

[NRS]

Behemoth said:

Guvernator said:

Some people think the development team is solid and this will be the next big thing, others say its plagiarized, shills, hype etc so it's really difficult to work who is telling the truth and this is the problem with pretty much all the altcoins.

Too many amateur "experts", vested interests, shills and naysayers to be able to reasonably sort the wheat from the chaff so I hold.

There are plenty of solid, well versed professional experts available. Really, a hell of a lot. You need the ability to identify them. If you haven't acquired that skill (and you'll know when you have it), you're taking a risk.

Not sure that is true as such, beyond avoiding the clear rubbish. Take yourself for example - clearly know a lot about BTC and a lot of the stuff behind crypto in general. Yet you have your very clear preferences on what is important, and the rest is rubbish. Yet others who also know a lot believe in key value drivers,. To be honest no one knows what will be the important stuff behind coins that survive - if any actually do in a meaningful sense.

[ADEuk]

Behemoth said:

Joey Deacon said:

I cannot believe it turned out to be a pyramid scheme.

The red flags were there from the very beginning. Here's a good list of outright crypto scams. It doesn't include the multitude of crap coins, but shows the outright Ponzis & YouTube shillers:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7...

Thanks, glad not to see any of my choices in there.
FWIW I'm in NEO, FUN, XVG, FUEL, ETH & BTC. Bought early Dec17, ended up in for 5k by early Jan. Tried a few times to catch a coin that was rising but didn't have much success. Also decided to dump my XRP,TRON&XLM as I was reading bad stuff. Then the crash. At the worst point I was about £1500 down, although there has been some recovery and currently sit at about £200 profit. I think that unless I read really bad stuff about what I've got I'm just gonna hodl from now.

[Supernova190188]

ADEuk said:

Buy BTC from GBP wallet, sell back to Euro then SEPA the euro from coinbase to your Already Verified UK account

Edited by ADEuk on Wednesday 17th January 20:56

Thanks, it was blocking out the buy option at the time, only withdraw was highlighted that's what was confusing me! Bought some coin with it and watched it steadily go back up this past half hour 😊. Cheers.

[g4ry13]

moonigan said:

The Spruce goose said:

High risk yes but any coin that bounces back 100% has strong demand.

What about bitconnect. Known scam that's widely published yet at one point it was 600% up. I've sat and watched from a distance for the last month and cant make head nor tail of it. It feels like someone is about to pull the rug from under it and ride away into the sunset with saddle bags full of coin.

Seeing as it's a ponzi by virtue the coins are absolutely worthless, unless you can get some total moron to buy them off you.

It really has no future.

[Condi]

Vyse said:

You don't need to understand something to invest, maybe the mechanism of how to get into the investment but not the product itself.

Only invest what you are prepared to lose and also learn when to get in and out.

The very definitions of gambling;

Not understanding what you're buying
Not wanting to know what you're buying, or how it works
Being prepared to lose the money you're bringing to the table



This thread keeps on giving. If anyone, anywhere, can tell me what intrinsic value any of these coins have, or what value they 'should' be priced at, or what use they have which is not suitably satisfied by any physical currency then please crack on. I'd love to learn. But despite asking many many times nobody has been able to answer any of those 3 questions, and my logical brain can only conclude its the biggest investment bubble since the .Com crash.

[cat with a hat]

Condi said:

The very definitions of gambling;

Not understanding what you're buying
Not wanting to know what you're buying, or how it works
Being prepared to lose the money you're bringing to the table



This thread keeps on giving. If anyone, anywhere, can tell me what intrinsic value any of these coins have, or what value they 'should' be priced at, or what use they have which is not suitably satisfied by any physical currency then please crack on. I'd love to learn. But despite asking many many times nobody has been able to answer any of those 3 questions, and my logical brain can only conclude its the biggest investment bubble since the .Com crash.

I can tell you now it's going to keep on dropping.. bitcoin was the only coin with any hope and it's fundamentally flawed from a technical perspective.

It's actually quite hilarious how convoluted the buying and selling process is too.

[dimots]

Condi said:

The very definitions of gambling;

Not understanding what you're buying
Not wanting to know what you're buying, or how it works
Being prepared to lose the money you're bringing to the table



This thread keeps on giving. If anyone, anywhere, can tell me what intrinsic value any of these coins have, or what value they 'should' be priced at, or what use they have which is not suitably satisfied by any physical currency then please crack on. I'd love to learn. But despite asking many many times nobody has been able to answer any of those 3 questions, and my logical brain can only conclude its the biggest investment bubble since the .Com crash.

Ok so for example: When .eth domains go mainstream and people can make payments in their browser with no paypal/credit card/etc I think that's going to be a big moment because you need ethereum currency (ether) to pay for 'gas' which is the network unit cost for transactions. If you don’t have ether you can’t use the network so there will be a market for exchanging fiat for ether.

This is not a gold rush, it’s an oil rush. The network runs on ether...you can buy it cheap now, but if the ethereum project is successful it won’t be cheap any longer!

[Condi]

dimots said:

Ok so for example: When .eth domains go mainstream and people can make payments in their browser with no paypal/credit card/etc I think that's going to be a big moment because you need ethereum currency (ether) to pay for 'gas' which is the network unit cost for transactions. If you don’t have ether you can’t use the network so there will be a market for exchanging fiat for ether.

This is not a gold rush, it’s an oil rush. The network runs on ether...you can buy it cheap now, but if the ethereum project is successful it won’t be cheap any longer!

Ok, but my point is that if I want to send money, I can do, via Paypal, credit card, bank transfer, mobile phone number, cash, whatever. Non of these have transaction costs. You also say when, I say, IF. And nobody is going to use a wildly volatile currency to store money in, when they can keep it in Sterling and its value is stable. If you put 10k in ether and it dropped by 50%, you'd be furious and never use it again.

Meh, sorry, your answer doesnt answer anything. Its another angle, I grant you, but its not going to change the world, because its trying to solve problems which dont exist. The mere fact there are transaction fees puts it at a big disadvantage compared with jumping on your banking app and sending money, or indeed using your debit/credit card online.

[dimots]

While you may think everything is fine, it’s really not. Simple transactions are ok by logging into a third party system, but peer to peer payments are not resolved effectively online yet.

There’s a lot of info out there on this, here’s one I turned up with a quick ‘google’.

http://blog.directpay.online/top-5-challenges-in-o...

[Behemoth]

Condi said:

If anyone, anywhere, can tell me what intrinsic value any of these coins have, or what value they 'should' be priced at, or what use they have which is not suitably satisfied by any physical currency then please crack on. I'd love to learn. But despite asking many many times nobody has been able to answer any of those 3 questions, and my logical brain can only conclude its the biggest investment bubble since the .Com crash.

You've been bleating the same thing, replete with tautologies, time and again and fail to comprehend the answers. It must be because you don't understand the technologies or the economic theory. No fiat currency has intrinsic value. It isn't necessary to have intrinsic value for a currency to function. At the baseline, crypto currency enables secure permissionless transfer of value. And the value is whatever is ascribed to it by the market, just like any currency or asset.

[x5x3]

I do now understand that 99% on here have no interest whatsoever in the real long term potential - but for those that do here is a major step forwards - https://twitter.com/aesedepece/status/953747291223...

[Condi]

Behemoth said:

You've been bleating the same thing, replete with tautologies, time and again and fail to comprehend the answers. It must be because you don't understand the technologies or the economic theory. No fiat currency has intrinsic value. It isn't necessary to have intrinsic value for a currency to function. At the baseline, crypto currency enables secure permissionless transfer of value. And the value is whatever is ascribed to it by the market, just like any currency or asset.

I understand the technology, and if you read, Ive totally agreed that Ripple is a fantastic technology, but the technology is used to move FIAT currencies around! Which seems to be counter-current to all the arguments made by you and others about how FIAT currencies are flawed and crypto-currencies are needed. It simply seems like banks dont agree, because they are using blockchain technology to move around Pounds and Dollars.

Traditional currencies have an intrinsic value because they are backed by a central bank, which is able to use fiscal policy to control the value of that currency.

Rather than attacking my understanding of economics, why dont you take a critical look at what you're advocating and see if it stands up to rigorous questions. I have done, and really dont understand why they should have any value at all. Do you not think that if crypto-currencies really are the future there is going to have to be a slightly better system of 'ordinary people' transferring their Pounds to XRP/Bitcoin etc than just buying it through some unregulated websites hosted in South Korea? And dont you think that citizens are going to want some protection when they transfer their currency? I read a stat earlier that something like 14% of all crypto-currency coins have been hacked and stolen over the last 10 years. In which case government has to be involved and it'll become regulated and controlled.

Sorry, the more questions you ask, the less it makes sense.

[Vyse]

So what if it is gambling if its money you are prepared to lose. Losing the money will make no difference to my lifestyle however if it goes up substantially that's a different story.

Maybe a different story for someone that decides to remortgage the house or max out all there credit cards for crypto but that's not me.

In my case I do have an understanding of the crypto world and blockchain tech behind it albeit not super deep. I was merely describing how the normal folk that's hopped on the train in recent weeks might not have a true understanding on the investment that they are putting money into.

Condi said:

The very definitions of gambling;

Not understanding what you're buying
Not wanting to know what you're buying, or how it works
Being prepared to lose the money you're bringing to the table



This thread keeps on giving. If anyone, anywhere, can tell me what intrinsic value any of these coins have, or what value they 'should' be priced at, or what use they have which is not suitably satisfied by any physical currency then please crack on. I'd love to learn. But despite asking many many times nobody has been able to answer any of those 3 questions, and my logical brain can only conclude its the biggest investment bubble since the .Com crash.

[Behemoth]

Condi said:

Traditional currencies have an intrinsic value because they are backed by a central bank, which is able to use fiscal policy to control the value of that currency.

Nope. By definition, fiat currency has no intrinsic value. Look it up.

To the rest, this is emerging technology. In 1996 you could not stream HDTV across the internet protocol to your living room. Emerging technologies advance and the problems you state are transient. If you don't believe in the potential outcome, that's fine.

As for xrp, I totally agree with you. It's utterly pointless.

[andy ted]

Behemoth said:

You've been bleating the same thing, replete with tautologies, time and again and fail to comprehend the answers. It must be because you don't understand the technologies or the economic theory. No fiat currency has intrinsic value. It isn't necessary to have intrinsic value for a currency to function. At the baseline, crypto currency enables secure permissionless transfer of value. And the value is whatever is ascribed to it by the market, just like any currency or asset.

But you can’t use crypto for anything - you have to convert any gains back to FIAT to do anything useful with it. There are people who are on paper multi millionaires, even billionaires in crypto from a few thousand invested. but if they tried to get out they would move the market. If people are putting in even a large sum like 100k now expecting 10x gains to be the get rich quick millionaire, then all things being equal they will need 10 people to come along prepared to invest the same amount to buy them out into FIAT. Sounds like the definition of a ponzi to me.

The alternative is some of the currencies become mainstream and you can actually do something useful with them. Get paid in crypto, buy your shopping, car, house with them. Who would set the global price for a banana, a Big Mac or a Ferrari? The richest people in the world would be the early adopters and everyone else who is in ‘early’ becomes millionaires from a few thousand pounds original investment Value can’t come from nowhere so surely that would lead to inflation?

Both scenarios fundamentally make no sense to me tell me what I am missing?

Edited by andy ted on Thursday 18th January 23:29

[NickCQ]

Behemoth said:

Condi said:

Traditional currencies have an intrinsic value because they are backed by a central bank, which is able to use fiscal policy to control the value of that currency.

Nope. By definition, fiat currency has no intrinsic value. Look it up.

Yeah, it makes no sense to say that fiat is backed by a central bank, obviously, but it does have a pool of people that are forced to buy it and therefore there is underlying fundamental demand. Cryptos at this point in time have predominantly buyers driven by speculation rather than any need to own the asset.

I always make this point and I always get ignored but fundamentally a fiat currency is backed by the sovereign power of a government to demand that it is paid taxes denominated in that currency. Basically you can get thrown in prison if you don't deliver USD to the US government on time when they ask for it. That creates demand and value!

The value of the power to tax increases with the national income of the country. That's a key difference vs cryptos, where there is no 'national income' that is crypto denominated and no-one needs to buy it.

[stongle]

Condi said:

Traditional currencies have an intrinsic value because they are backed by a central bank, which is able to use fiscal policy to control the value of that currency.

Rather than attacking my understanding of economics.

Well your understanding of economics is very poor. Fiscal policy is engaged in by governments when they raise taxes and spend. Monetary polocy is what Central banks use to control currency value & flow through measures such as interest rate adjustment and quantative easing.

[x5x3]

andy ted said:

Both scenarios fundamentally make no sense to me tell me what I am missing?

Edited by andy ted on Thursday 18th January 23:29

it is comments like this which stop me contributing too much to this thread.

If you believe the hype and the FUD and remain stuck in 1950's economic textbooks then great - enjoy your world.

I posted a link several posts up to a topic discussing people running Lightning Network nodes on the main BTC network.

When LN arrives it will offer very low cost and virtually instant transactions.

I do get it that most people here don't care about the technology but if BP/GM/any big traditional company announced a major breakthrough in x then you'd all be rushing to buy shares.

Edited by x5x3 on Friday 19th January 10:37

[FredClogs]

For anything to be usefully and successfully used as a currency or even a store of value it has to be inherently stable.