Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
Guvernator said:
In general news it's looking pretty grim for cryptocurrency overall, it's basically been on a downward spiral for several weeks now.
The whole year has been, the market is saturated, i think in time Dec 2017 will be looked as peak. Growth will continue but slower. I think a lot got burned so have been put off by it all. I think the exchanges are artificially keeping btc price higher than it should.Thesprucegoose said:
Guvernator said:
In general news it's looking pretty grim for cryptocurrency overall, it's basically been on a downward spiral for several weeks now.
The whole year has been, the market is saturated, i think in time Dec 2017 will be looked as peak. Growth will continue but slower. I think a lot got burned so have been put off by it all. I think the exchanges are artificially keeping btc price higher than it should.They say "You know it's time to sell when shoeshine boys give you stock tips. This bull market is over", this was definitely the case with Crypto in December when everybody was talking about it. Add to this the fact that Charlie Lee sold all his Litecoin in December and looking back it was clear the party was over.
There are too many pointless coins, these need to die before crypto can go anywhere.
The pointless coins tokens are actually fueling both BTC and eth prices. Without all the s
t icons they would be a lot lower in price. It is supply and demand, but a new generation of snake oil salesmen in the techno world come along and sell a dream. It will continue to happen you can still make money but think of it as no better than gambling.
The problem you have is thinking that they can solve a problem, maybe ten years ago, but nowadays banks and apps are doing the job just as they envisaged cryptos to do.
It will always have a hobbyist hardcore.
t icons they would be a lot lower in price. It is supply and demand, but a new generation of snake oil salesmen in the techno world come along and sell a dream. It will continue to happen you can still make money but think of it as no better than gambling.The problem you have is thinking that they can solve a problem, maybe ten years ago, but nowadays banks and apps are doing the job just as they envisaged cryptos to do.
It will always have a hobbyist hardcore.
coyft said:
Thesprucegoose said:
The problem you have is thinking that they can solve a problem, maybe ten years ago, but nowadays banks and apps are doing the job just as they envisaged cryptos to do.
It will always have a hobbyist hardcore.
Nail. Head.It will always have a hobbyist hardcore.
Joey Deacon said:
I still don't understand what use any of the coins are. As soon as you question it, all you hear is Blockchain, Decentralised and that fiat is worthless.
Gonnna rant now. Had a beer and just think it's worthwhile at this point...Ok, how about this. When you make a transaction between YOURSELF and ANYONE ELSE online. Who proves that you have paid that person what you said you would?
Visa? Paypal? Your bank? Or more likely ALL THREE.
E.G. https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/how-online-p...
You THINK you are paying the price of something, but you are not, you are paying the price of something PLUS the transaction costs. Each actor in this chain takes a cut.
Admittedly for most people in the West, this is acceptable on the MAJORITY of goods CURRENTLY paid for online. For digital goods and on demand services we generally have got used to paying for things in monthly bundles, subscription costs are packaged, etc...
Is this good business? Well, it's dying a little because everyone wants everything for free, but it is still fairly good business. There are lots of complications and issues but everyone's making money so WHO CARES?
Nobody right now maybe...but crypto offers the potential to produce WAY more efficent and WAY more profitable business models for various online marketing opportunities. From turning the affiliate model on its head and rewarding customers for buying and reviewing products, to rewarding likes and shares on social media, to making subscription media truly on demand REMOVING transaction fees and giving companies AUTONOMY to accept payments without involving any third party offers huge cost savings and enabling unforeseen opportunities.
There are so many examples of where it can be used, from cashback to subscriptions the fact that crypto can PROVE an unfasifiable one-time transaction means you can build systems that require zero intervention and work 100% accurately. How do you think that compares to the current cashback/affiliate marketing model which relies on setting cookies or entering codes? Can you not see the potential? Do you not see how this fits into the vision of the new GDPR legislation?
Anyway, that's just a start. Contemplating the possibilities of a new world of trustless self managed transactions is enough to blow my mind. You will not pay for metered electricity on a constant flow, for example, every machine you own will run its own electricity budget and manage when and how much it uses with crypto payments direct to the electricity provider.
These guys are kind of dabbling with this concept: https://powerledger.io/
The programmability of payments hasn't even begun to be exploited yet, but it could completely change the world and bring a new level of efficiency. If you don't believe me, that's fine. I DO NOT REALLY CARE WHAT YOU THINK and I certainly don't care how many times I have to say this on here...but the potential is there and given enough imagination and a business case I believe we will get there. Increases in population, resource scarcity and other factors would tend to support my view.
peekay74 said:
Has anyone taken a look at Metronome. Hearing quite a lot of hype about it, seemingly some good figures in management and as advisers but don’t really know much about it. Anyone able to provide and thoughts ?
I can name a dozen plus coins do the same. You cannot call a coin decentralised when the founder takes 20%. Why do they need 20% plus an icon to develop the community. A truly free decentralised coin would have no icon or premine. But like the rest it about making money for the early investors."Anyway, that's just a start. Contemplating the possibilities of a new world of trustless self managed transactions is enough to blow my mind. You will not pay for metered electricity on a constant flow, for example, every machine you own will run its own electricity budget and manage when and how much it uses with crypto payments direct to the electricity provider"
Not in any of our lifetimes it won't. We pay for electricity in two parts, consumed power and standing charges, and theur will always be a network supplier with costs. The electricity (or any utility provider) network has been geared to selling via a limited amount of competition. It's already a nightmare to regulate, and a lot of money is at stake to shareholders and pension funds. They will not give that up to anything unproven anytime soon.
Yes Manufacturers could in theory integrate smart computers into some home white goods such as washing machines and such like. But to have any benefit of what was said above, there would need to be instant competition and pricing data, which won't happen for domestic customers. It's difficult enough for large users to buy energy on the markets as it is.
I'm not discounting block chains and such like but the above sort of transactions aren't just dependant on kettles getting smarter, you have to agree to overhaul or break up the entire utility network for billing and accounts of what are PLC companies backed by govt and banking legislation.
If we come back in a few hundreds of years I suspect well pretty much be buying goods and services in a mix of traditional through banks (online) and through other methods perhaps linked to block chains if it isn't a collapsed and long dead memory by then. Until there is government backed 100% trust worldwide that the system is safe and hackers aren't still cashing in other people's "wallets" then resistance will remain.
Not in any of our lifetimes it won't. We pay for electricity in two parts, consumed power and standing charges, and theur will always be a network supplier with costs. The electricity (or any utility provider) network has been geared to selling via a limited amount of competition. It's already a nightmare to regulate, and a lot of money is at stake to shareholders and pension funds. They will not give that up to anything unproven anytime soon.
Yes Manufacturers could in theory integrate smart computers into some home white goods such as washing machines and such like. But to have any benefit of what was said above, there would need to be instant competition and pricing data, which won't happen for domestic customers. It's difficult enough for large users to buy energy on the markets as it is.
I'm not discounting block chains and such like but the above sort of transactions aren't just dependant on kettles getting smarter, you have to agree to overhaul or break up the entire utility network for billing and accounts of what are PLC companies backed by govt and banking legislation.
If we come back in a few hundreds of years I suspect well pretty much be buying goods and services in a mix of traditional through banks (online) and through other methods perhaps linked to block chains if it isn't a collapsed and long dead memory by then. Until there is government backed 100% trust worldwide that the system is safe and hackers aren't still cashing in other people's "wallets" then resistance will remain.
Thesprucegoose said:
The pointless coins tokens are actually fueling both BTC and eth prices. Without all the st icons they would be a lot lower in price.
What makes you say this? My assessment is that all the st icons they would be a lot lower in price.tcoins have taken share away from BTC and ETH and therefore caused their prices to drop by diversifying people's investments.dimots said:
Anyway, that's just a start. Contemplating the possibilities of a new world of trustless self managed transactions is enough to blow my mind. You will not pay for metered electricity on a constant flow, for example, every machine you own will run its own electricity budget and manage when and how much it uses with crypto payments direct to the electricity provider.
I'm a little confused by this. Machines don't use electricity when you're not using them, if you switch a kettle on, it uses electricity, when it's not being used it doesn't. It doesn't need to 'manage it's own electricity budget'.I really don't understand how paying for electricity as it used on demand is any different whether it's made via crypto/blockchain or whether it's meter/direct debit.
Bluedot said:
I'm a little confused by this. Machines don't use electricity when you're not using them, if you switch a kettle on, it uses electricity, when it's not being used it doesn't. It doesn't need to 'manage it's own electricity budget'.
I really don't understand how paying for electricity as it used on demand is any different whether it's made via crypto/blockchain or whether it's meter/direct debit.
To be fair I think it was just used as an example of how blockchain will reinvent the wheel, but so many industries and jobs rely on our current (fairly well regulated, fairly safe) system of payments and monitoring that no one is throwing that away anytime soon. I really don't understand how paying for electricity as it used on demand is any different whether it's made via crypto/blockchain or whether it's meter/direct debit.
200Plus Club said:
"Anyway, that's just a start. Contemplating the possibilities of a new world of trustless self managed transactions is enough to blow my mind. You will not pay for metered electricity on a constant flow, for example, every machine you own will run its own electricity budget and manage when and how much it uses with crypto payments direct to the electricity provider"
Just sounds like a load more stuff to go wrong to me. If my kettle stops working I throw it away, go to Argos to buy a new one, plug it in and start using it. Do I really want my kettle to manage it's own electricity useage and pay the supplier direct with Crypto?Sounds a bit like Talkie Toaster in Red Dwarf to me.
My parents struggle enough with a mobile phone, do I really want them phoning me every day asking me why their fridge isn't managing the electricity budget correctly?
CzechItOut said:
What makes you say this? My assessment is that all the stcoins have taken share away from BTC and ETH and therefore caused their prices to drop by diversifying people's investments.
The medium of exchange is btc or eth for tokens, easy to think just eth is used but btc is used as well, keeps daily volumes high.tcoins have taken share away from BTC and ETH and therefore caused their prices to drop by diversifying people's investments.BTC daily txs are around 234k a day, the same as 2.5years ago, yet price is 15 times more.? Supply and demand,but value inflated.
Edited by Thesprucegoose on Thursday 28th June 13:17
Edited by Thesprucegoose on Thursday 28th June 14:18
Joey Deacon said:
Just sounds like a load more stuff to go wrong to me. If my kettle stops working I throw it away, go to Argos to buy a new one, plug it in and start using it. Do I really want my kettle to manage it's own electricity useage and pay the supplier direct with Crypto?
Sounds a bit like Talkie Toaster in Red Dwarf to me.
My parents struggle enough with a mobile phone, do I really want them phoning me every day asking me why their fridge isn't managing the electricity budget correctly?
But things are already going wrong. I'm sure you think the world we live in is perfect but it's not. There's huge waste. Over half of all electricity produced is wasted because it cannot be stored. It is possible to design a system that automatically sells excess energy to smart machines or domestic energy hubs networked across the country. Energy is considered an essential service, so it's not a totally free market, Ofgem could step in if technology becomes available to minimize costs of providing energy. In fact they are actively seeking solutions: Sounds a bit like Talkie Toaster in Red Dwarf to me.
My parents struggle enough with a mobile phone, do I really want them phoning me every day asking me why their fridge isn't managing the electricity budget correctly?
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/about-us/how-we-engage/in...
One of the huge regulatory issues of creating an automated market would be proving who is paying the bill, and in assigning payments methods. Payments also have to be bundled not streamed. This is also going to be an issue for electric cars of course when wireless charging comes in.
Blockchain has the potential to solve these issues. More reading here:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609077/how-bloc...
https://medium.com/capdax-exchange/how-blockchain-...
dimots said:
Joey Deacon said:
Just sounds like a load more stuff to go wrong to me. If my kettle stops working I throw it away, go to Argos to buy a new one, plug it in and start using it. Do I really want my kettle to manage it's own electricity useage and pay the supplier direct with Crypto?
Sounds a bit like Talkie Toaster in Red Dwarf to me.
My parents struggle enough with a mobile phone, do I really want them phoning me every day asking me why their fridge isn't managing the electricity budget correctly?
But things are already going wrong. I'm sure you think the world we live in is perfect but it's not. There's huge waste. Over half of all electricity produced is wasted because it cannot be stored. It is possible to design a system that automatically sells excess energy to smart machines or domestic energy hubs networked across the country. Energy is considered an essential service, so it's not a totally free market, Ofgem could step in if technology becomes available to minimize costs of providing energy. In fact they are actively seeking solutions: Sounds a bit like Talkie Toaster in Red Dwarf to me.
My parents struggle enough with a mobile phone, do I really want them phoning me every day asking me why their fridge isn't managing the electricity budget correctly?
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/about-us/how-we-engage/in...
One of the huge regulatory issues of creating an automated market would be proving who is paying the bill, and in assigning payments methods. Payments also have to be bundled not streamed. This is also going to be an issue for electric cars of course when wireless charging comes in.
Blockchain has the potential to solve these issues. More reading here:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609077/how-bloc...
https://medium.com/capdax-exchange/how-blockchain-...
I suspect most people don't care either, just think most people operate on a Love Island level of intelligence and I am sure you will understand.
Joey Deacon said:
I work in IT so I am not naive enough to think the world is perfect, far from it. I just want everything to be as simple as possible, i don't want over complicated stuff that techies salivate over just for the sake of technology for technologies sake.
I suspect most people don't care either, just think most people operate on a Love Island level of intelligence and I am sure you will understand.
It's a fair point, I sometimes meet people who struggle standing upright and breathing at the same time...they won't even use cash cards or online payments with banks but seem to enjoy queuing at the post office.I suspect most people don't care either, just think most people operate on a Love Island level of intelligence and I am sure you will understand.
dimots said:
Gonnna rant now. Had a beer and just think it's worthwhile at this point...
Ok, how about this. When you make a transaction between YOURSELF and ANYONE ELSE online. Who proves that you have paid that person what you said you would?
The banks on either side.Ok, how about this. When you make a transaction between YOURSELF and ANYONE ELSE online. Who proves that you have paid that person what you said you would?
This system works flawlessly tens of millions of times a day. Correctly addressed payments do not go missing, the receiving bank never denies receipt, and no-one gets ripped off.
These moronic invented flaws in the current system simply do not exist. You are implying that the current system might just lie, but it never, ever does, it works, flawlessly, instantly, and cheaply.
coyft said:
Sort of. Although as a merchant receiving payment you are always liable for a chargeback. A customer or fraudster can request a chargeback from the card company and the merchant suffers the loss.
Although I think that is probably a necessary requirement for online payments. The consumer needs trust that they can reverse a payment should things go wrong.
I definitely think there could be a market for micro payments, peer to peer where consumer trust is not such an issue as the payments are so small.
The majority of the 8bn people alive today live in local environments of volatile currencies, lack of banking and poor security. There is an enormous potential demand for a system which can improve all those key issues for those people but it is still restricted to those wealthy enough to own a personal phone or other storage device etc plus no crypto is yet anywhere near stable enough to be considered a currency for basic transactions. It’s going to take more time and probably V2 of the system which is likely to be the inshoring of ancureency and it’s backing by a corporate entity. Although I think that is probably a necessary requirement for online payments. The consumer needs trust that they can reverse a payment should things go wrong.
I definitely think there could be a market for micro payments, peer to peer where consumer trust is not such an issue as the payments are so small.
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