Crypto Currency Thread

Crypto Currency Thread

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Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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Condi said:
Do you think the recent sell off, across all traded objects (for want of a better word) is because people need to liquidate for basic necessities?

I dont.
No, read the sentence before the section you quote me on. I was referring to a much more serious crash event.

DonkeyApple

54,928 posts

168 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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Behemoth said:
Nothing is put to bed, it's way way too early to determine that. Zoom out beyond the last 12 months.

When traders are margin called, they pull from any and all assets to pay up. Including bitcoin, including gold. If/when there's a bigger financial crash then neither bitcoin or gold are going to be any sort of safe haven. When average Joes come under pressure, they will also pull any and every asset to pay bills & put food on the table.
Including gold? wink

So crypto is controlled by the average joe who needs to sell it off to pay the bills? So a terrible store of wealth. Like I said, that argument has been firmly put to bed.

Behemoth

2,105 posts

130 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
Including gold? wink

So crypto is controlled by the average joe who needs to sell it off to pay the bills? So a terrible store of wealth. Like I said, that argument has been firmly put to bed.
You're going to bed too early, come back in a decade and let's see where we are. I'm surprised you're looking at such short time frames for transformative concepts.

Bitcoin isn't controlled by anyone, which is the essence of it. Volatility is expected for a long while to come and there's plenty of room for price to drop further this round. It's just one of many popped bubbles that Bitcoin has experienced and speculation will continue unabated.

Please expand your gold comment. I don't know where you're placing that, in response to what?

DonkeyApple

54,928 posts

168 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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You said gold isn’t a safe haven yet this week we saw massive flows precisely because it is. My point is that there has been an argument that cryptos are a safe haven. This has manifestly been proven not true. Ten year horizons aren’t pertinent. We are talking about it as a market today. It behaves like a crappy little penny share and will do so until it finds a purpose in the real world.

As for bitcoin not being controlled by anyone that’s manifestly not true. It’s just a classic illiquid market that can be controlled by anyone with the means and the desire to do so.

dimots

3,013 posts

89 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
As for bitcoin not being controlled by anyone that’s manifestly not true. It’s just a classic illiquid market that can be controlled by anyone with the means and the desire to do so.
So I presume that you think the massive btc sale that happened was the US government disposing of part of their Silk Road stash to deflate the btc price artificially and to distract the public from seeing btc as a safe haven?

I see where you’re coming from....

James B we have another conspiracy theorist over here. Feel free to flog him in public.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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He's not wrong, i've posted before about Bitfinex with its spoof trading(spoofy) and 'print your own money' tether propping up tcs price, a top 3 exchange has had massive impact on btc price, through massive manipulation and supply control.

Something is currently afoot with tether at moment as well.

just noticed this article.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-12...

''Griffin and Shams noticed that when Bitcoin fell to certain levels, purchases using Tether would flood in to stabilize prices. After crunching the data, they concluded this fit a pattern consistent with someone, or a group of people, trying to manipulate Bitcoin prices.''

edited for the pedantic nitpickers.


Edited by Thesprucegoose on Saturday 13th October 19:30

guindilias

5,245 posts

119 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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"afoot" - from a drunk language expert (in my own estimation).

James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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Behemoth said:
For the third time (I've actually lost count), there are no conspiracy theories
bks are there not. There are JFK ones, vaccine ones, UFO ones, Jewish ones and banker ones. To claim that there are not is ludicrous.

I’m happy to take you at your word that you don’t subscribe to any, but claiming that they don’t exist suggest quite a strange mindset.

Have you genuinely never heard any?

James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Saturday 13th October 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
You said gold isn’t a safe haven yet this week we saw massive flows precisely because it is. My point is that there has been an argument that cryptos are a safe haven. This has manifestly been proven not true. Ten year horizons aren’t pertinent. We are talking about it as a market today. It behaves like a crappy little penny share and will do so until it finds a purpose in the real world.

As for bitcoin not being controlled by anyone that’s manifestly not true. It’s just a classic illiquid market that can be controlled by anyone with the means and the desire to do so.
Back when I used to trade USD assets in a EUROPEAN bank, I used to cover the guy who traded agency bond once in a while if he was out for the day.

Others did it a bit too, and his fury when someone misunderstood the difference between total issue size and free float, and so sold something that we’d never be able to buy back was always amusing to see.

It’s the same here, very few accounts own far too much for it to be played around in.

soupdragon1

3,966 posts

96 months

Sunday 14th October 2018
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dimots said:
DonkeyApple said:
As for bitcoin not being controlled by anyone that’s manifestly not true. It’s just a classic illiquid market that can be controlled by anyone with the means and the desire to do so.
So I presume that you think the massive btc sale that happened was the US government disposing of part of their Silk Road stash to deflate the btc price artificially and to distract the public from seeing btc as a safe haven?

I see where you’re coming from....

James B we have another conspiracy theorist over here. Feel free to flog him in public.
Conspiracy theorist sounds like some crackpot that believes there was no moon landing etc, but if you change the wording to someone who believes there is manipulation taking place, it sounds a little better. And it's not beyond probability that manipulation is taking place.

dimots

3,013 posts

89 months

Sunday 14th October 2018
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But surely anyone who thinks that the bitcoin market is being deliberately manipulated for gain is a conspiracy theorist unless they have evidence?

We know that the price can be moved by big transactions. MT Gox sell off seems to have partly contributed to holding the market down in 2018. But evidence for anything beyond that? Where is it?

DonkeyApple

54,928 posts

168 months

Monday 15th October 2018
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dimots said:
But surely anyone who thinks that the bitcoin market is being deliberately manipulated for gain is a conspiracy theorist unless they have evidence?

We know that the price can be moved by big transactions. MT Gox sell off seems to have partly contributed to holding the market down in 2018. But evidence for anything beyond that? Where is it?
Where is what? Let’s start with where the claim it’s being manipulated is? That’s the logical starting point. wink

dimots

3,013 posts

89 months

Monday 15th October 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
Where is what? Let’s start with where the claim it’s being manipulated is? That’s the logical starting point. wink
I'm not interested in playing stupid games.

More interested in seeing what comes out of all the tether holders swapping back into btc.

DonkeyApple

54,928 posts

168 months

Monday 15th October 2018
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Reading isn’t a stupid game. It’s an important skill to prevent silly understandings and to help prevent silly people getting all grumpy and defensive. wink

soupdragon1

3,966 posts

96 months

Monday 15th October 2018
quotequote all
dimots said:
But surely anyone who thinks that the bitcoin market is being deliberately manipulated for gain is a conspiracy theorist unless they have evidence?

We know that the price can be moved by big transactions. MT Gox sell off seems to have partly contributed to holding the market down in 2018. But evidence for anything beyond that? Where is it?
I don't have any evidence. I'm not saying I'm sure its being manipulated, but at the same time, I also think its naïve to think its not being manipulated. Overall, I think a healthy scepticism is advisable and not to take Bitcoin at face value.

TheAngryDog

12,394 posts

208 months

Sunday 21st October 2018
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Has anyone heard much about initiative q? Is it another crypto or something else?

Resolutionary

1,253 posts

170 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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TheAngryDog said:
Has anyone heard much about initiative q? Is it another crypto or something else?
I came here to ask the same - various sources are either for or against it, this one seems to be the most informative link I can find so far:

https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2018/06/24/in...

Lots of friends on Facebook circulating a generic sign-up message. Has all the hallmarks of a pyramid scheme but people I hold in high esteem are sharing so... go figure.

dimots

3,013 posts

89 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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Personally I think initiative q is an experiment rather than a con. I can’t see any technology behind it and the way it reads suggests it’s a kind of thought experiment along the lines of ‘what is money’? It appears that a ‘Q’ does not exist and is in fact just a device to highlight how ethereal the concept of money really is.

Could be wrong, would like to hear from anyone who sees value in it.

Condi

17,089 posts

170 months

Monday 22nd October 2018
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If you look, there is a incentive for signing up your friends in the form of more coins, and at the moment there is no cost involved, so hence people are going to push it hard. Their entire marketing policy is around social media.

To me it looks like everything else. An idea which someone either A) hopes to get rich on, or B) actually believes will change the world.

Its far more likely to do A than B IMO, and I still dont buy the argument that there is much wrong with Pounds, Dollars and Yen.


Read the website, there are so many holes and unanswered questions I cant even begin to think it will ever get anywhere beyond an IPO and subsequent failure. I certainly wouldnt pay money for it, while they're being given out for free you've got nothing to loose I guess.

Resolutionary

1,253 posts

170 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2018
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I checked their website, and indeed looked for information from non-affiliated sources. A lot of people in my circle are signing up and giving links out so at the moment it looks like a pretty successful data mapping exercise and little more.

I'm assuming in order to get this off the ground, potential investors need to be confident that there is a pool of potential users - and with the incentive being 'we just need your email address' most will have little to lose with the chance of some reimbursement or being there for the birth of something ground-breaking.

Yet here I am, feeling very cynical about the whole thing. It'll take something extraordinary to move the globe from the current financial model - and I don't personally feel cards and cash are all that outdated.
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