Crypto Currency Thread

[DonkeyApple]

bloomen said:

g4ry13 said:

If you trade on margin and the exchange gets hacked where do you stand with that?

You'll be toast just like everyone else.

If you mean if the exchange has a massive glitch or briefly shuts and then reopens for business then you're often liquidated with zero compensation or recourse.

Other times they show some mercy. It varies a great deal.

Poloniex allowed a massive stcoin liquidation recently that wiped out millions of dollars of lender money. They made a nominal effort to pay them back and now seem to be hoping people forget about it.

Edited by bloomen on Thursday 6th February 23:27

It depends on how you hold your leveraged position. For example, if you’re holding an OTC with a regulated broker then it’s their hedge which is the physical at risk and you have zero risk in this regard as you have zero holding in any physical. If your holding is under the 85k threshold you even have no risk of the broker folds due to their book loss which most would if they were for some reason in breach of their guidelines and hedging with physical.

[bloomen]

DonkeyApple said:

It depends on how you hold your leveraged position. For example, if you’re holding an OTC with a regulated broker then it’s their hedge which is the physical at risk and you have zero risk in this regard as you have zero holding in any physical. If your holding is under the 85k threshold you even have no risk of the broker folds due to their book loss which most would if they were for some reason in breach of their guidelines and hedging with physical.

This is crypto. Most of these services are still run by 14yr olds. There certainly aren't many or any rules for the platforms people still flock to. If some do arrive they just find a slacker jurisdiction.

There are officially legit options now like CME and Bakkt but I've never heard of a civilian on them.

[DonkeyApple]

bloomen said:

DonkeyApple said:

It depends on how you hold your leveraged position. For example, if you’re holding an OTC with a regulated broker then it’s their hedge which is the physical at risk and you have zero risk in this regard as you have zero holding in any physical. If your holding is under the 85k threshold you even have no risk of the broker folds due to their book loss which most would if they were for some reason in breach of their guidelines and hedging with physical.

This is crypto. Most of these services are still run by 14yr olds. There certainly aren't many or any rules for the platforms people still flock to. If some do arrive they just find a slacker jurisdiction.

There are officially legit options now like CME and Bakkt but I've never heard of a civilian on them.

If you’re punting in leverage you’re likely to be using an OTC so you have a paper contract with the broker and zero physical crypto. The brokerage then hedges your position but if Regulated must also do so via an equivalent which means a CFD via a clearer. So ultimately the clearer holds the end physical. If their holding gets blagged the. It’s of no concern to the end client as it has nothing to do with them at all. They just have a paper agreement based on a set of numbers. That’s why I said it depends on what the leveraged position actually is.

[anonymous-user]

Bank Underground (a Bank of England staff blog) has put up this piece, authored by Peter Zimmerman

https://bankunderground.co.uk/2020/02/20/why-crypt...

which starts "Speculative buying can drive cryptocurrency prices down."

It is interesting to see such publications coming from this source

I wonder if he has bought any BTC yet?

[g4ry13]

JPJPJP said:

I wonder if he has bought any BTC yet?

Not allowed to.

[Behemoth]

JPJPJP said:

Bank Underground (a Bank of England staff blog) has put up this piece, authored by Peter Zimmerman

https://bankunderground.co.uk/2020/02/20/why-crypt...

which starts "Speculative buying can drive cryptocurrency prices down."

It is interesting to see such publications coming from this source

I wonder if he has bought any BTC yet?

It's a bit of a clickbait title. He's describing bitcoin a couple of years ago and his argument only holds if all transactions continue only on the base layer. That's like assuming sterling transactions only happen with the gold bars in the BoE's vaults.

Derivatives mkts for Bitcoin have already come a long way & layers beyond the finality of the blockchain are very clearly already extant, in use and fast developing in utility.

[anonymous-user]

Back to red. It's weird how this is normal now.

[anonymous-user]

You already know twitter man Jack Dorsey likes bitcoin

Square made $8m from bitcoin sales in 2019...

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/57083/square-s...

[g4ry13]

Thesprucegoose said:

Back to red. It's weird how this is normal now.

Almost every single financial market is down. It's hardly surprising.

[Bluedot]

g4ry13 said:

Thesprucegoose said:

Back to red. It's weird how this is normal now.

Almost every single financial market is down. It's hardly surprising.

Doesn't that mean crypto should be flying up then ?

[Behemoth]

Bitcoin is uncorrelated to other asset classes. Stocks plummeting doesn't mean Bitcoin has to pump. Gold soaring doesn't mean Bitcoin follows along. It isn't negatively or positively linked with anything else you can invest in. It is uncorrelated.

[Bluedot]

Behemoth said:

Bitcoin is uncorrelated to other asset classes. Stocks plummeting doesn't mean Bitcoin has to pump. Gold soaring doesn't mean Bitcoin follows along. It isn't negatively or positively linked with anything else you can invest in. It is uncorrelated.

ok but one of the arguments I always seem to read about for Bitcoin to be more widely accepted (especially when markets are relatively stable) is that Bitcoin is there as an alternative to mainstream finances 'because the next global meltdown is always just over the horizon'.
With the current state of the markets then that argument seems to be rather hollow ?
Not disputing you or trying to start an argument, it's just a point of view I see put forward quite often.

[g4ry13]

Bluedot said:

g4ry13 said:

Thesprucegoose said:

Back to red. It's weird how this is normal now.

Almost every single financial market is down. It's hardly surprising.

Doesn't that mean crypto should be flying up then ?

Maybe if the whole banking goes to st. Otherwise there's no reason for many crypto assets to fly up because people are dropping dead.

[DonkeyApple]

Bluedot said:

Behemoth said:

Bitcoin is uncorrelated to other asset classes. Stocks plummeting doesn't mean Bitcoin has to pump. Gold soaring doesn't mean Bitcoin follows along. It isn't negatively or positively linked with anything else you can invest in. It is uncorrelated.

ok but one of the arguments I always seem to read about for Bitcoin to be more widely accepted (especially when markets are relatively stable) is that Bitcoin is there as an alternative to mainstream finances 'because the next global meltdown is always just over the horizon'.
With the current state of the markets then that argument seems to be rather hollow ?
Not disputing you or trying to start an argument, it's just a point of view I see put forward quite often.

Fewer mugs alive to randomly buy coins and a greater desire to steal other people’s coins. And a fall in value as the goods you can exchange them for aren’t the things you need to survive a global flu pandemic. Guns and gold are the currencies of the apocalypse.

Talk of global currency devaluation on the other side of the Coronavirus curve will probably slam them up though?

[Behemoth]

Bluedot said:

ok but one of the arguments I always seem to read about for Bitcoin to be more widely accepted (especially when markets are relatively stable) is that Bitcoin is there as an alternative to mainstream finances 'because the next global meltdown is always just over the horizon'.
With the current state of the markets then that argument seems to be rather hollow ?
Not disputing you or trying to start an argument, it's just a point of view I see put forward quite often.

That's a very good point & I've no problem discussing intelligent observations. The meltdown hypothesis concerns the eventual effect of increasing debt via ongoing money printing rather than black swan type crises like covid19. Bitcoin isn't a pure short term hedge against a black swan event like covid19.

[Bluedot]

Behemoth said:

Bluedot said:

ok but one of the arguments I always seem to read about for Bitcoin to be more widely accepted (especially when markets are relatively stable) is that Bitcoin is there as an alternative to mainstream finances 'because the next global meltdown is always just over the horizon'.
With the current state of the markets then that argument seems to be rather hollow ?
Not disputing you or trying to start an argument, it's just a point of view I see put forward quite often.

That's a very good point & I've no problem discussing intelligent observations. The meltdown hypothesis concerns the eventual effect of increasing debt via ongoing money printing rather than black swan type crises like covid19. Bitcoin isn't a pure short term hedge against a black swan event like covid19.

Point taken.
On a side note, I'm just reading the story of the Winkelvoss twins and their involvement with Bitcoin. It's actually quite a decent read and well recommended.

[Behemoth]

The mining tends to be in reasonably remote places (hydro plants) and doesn't require many people to maintain it.

Supply chain for new mining rigs to markets worldwide are certainly being disrupted, but even that won't necessarily have a price impact. If there is less hashing power online, then bitcoin difficulty reduces, making it profitable for older machinery to be turned on again.

[Gargamel]

Bitcoin now using more electricity than Chile

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2020/03/01/bit...

One transaction is enough to run a UK house for two months

If you love this planet, probably time to get out of Bitcoin.

[Some Gump]

Gargamel said:

Bitcoin now using more electricity than Chile

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2020/03/01/bit...

One transaction is enough to run a UK house for two months

If you love this planet, probably time to get out of Bitcoin.

Lmao. Sure Behemoth will come and correct you soon enough: bitcoin only uses renewable energy from eco friendly china.

[Behemoth]

We shouldn't stop using energy, it's at the heart of civilisation's progress and a very good measure of it. There's more than enough energy around waiting to be tapped. Pollutants are a different issue.

I don't have any issue with bitcoin's energy use. It is what secures the system's value and protocol.

It's the equivalent of everything from securing gold in the vaults of the BoE to the cost of the entire banking infrastructure, even including Carney's salary & the call centre staff at your bank. It's extremely difficult to quantify in round trip totality for eg sterling but very simple & transparent for bitcoin.

And yes, the majority of bitcoin's energy consumption is already via renewables & much of that is stranded electricity that can't be used for anything else.