Crypto Currency Thread
Discussion
If there must be a buyer for every sale what happens when the price continues to drop? Who would buy BTC in a falling market? "Buy the dips" is quite a limited thing, in both time and quantity.
I am interested in the comparison between Crypto with gold.
Gold has value as it is rare and costs to mine. Gold once mined cannot be lost (although can be misplaced), it just sits there, doing nothing.
Crypto assets have a self imposed rarity, although you can just produce another type of coin as is happening everyday. Once "mined" as I understand it the energy cost to maintain the ledger is huge, and relies on continued "mining" to provide the impetus to maintain it. Once "mined" it just sits there, doing nothing, but costing money to maintain. It can be lost, and it is gone, forever. All the energy cost in initially "mining" is lost. If you are lucky it helped warm your house while it was happening. I picture it like a goldmine, that you have to keep paying to have pumped out. If you stop and it floods, all the gold that has been mined disappears forever.
Seen this way it is not such a good proposition as a store of wealth or value.
As for using it as a currency I think a FIAT or bank backed cryptocurrency may succeed. I don't think any of the current cryptocoins will.
It is just speculative, and the bubble will burst.
I am interested in the comparison between Crypto with gold.
Gold has value as it is rare and costs to mine. Gold once mined cannot be lost (although can be misplaced), it just sits there, doing nothing.
Crypto assets have a self imposed rarity, although you can just produce another type of coin as is happening everyday. Once "mined" as I understand it the energy cost to maintain the ledger is huge, and relies on continued "mining" to provide the impetus to maintain it. Once "mined" it just sits there, doing nothing, but costing money to maintain. It can be lost, and it is gone, forever. All the energy cost in initially "mining" is lost. If you are lucky it helped warm your house while it was happening. I picture it like a goldmine, that you have to keep paying to have pumped out. If you stop and it floods, all the gold that has been mined disappears forever.
Seen this way it is not such a good proposition as a store of wealth or value.
As for using it as a currency I think a FIAT or bank backed cryptocurrency may succeed. I don't think any of the current cryptocoins will.
It is just speculative, and the bubble will burst.
PH4555 said:
No hate, merely annoyance caused by people like yourself who first admit that they don't understand it and then go on to call anyone who disagrees with them "idiots". Most decent people who don't have any knowledge about a particular subject matter would either keep their opinions to themself or observe the discussions from a distance and learn from people who do have a better understanding of the subject matter and likely direction it will take. But no, let's continue regurgitating tired old phrases over and over because we're bitter no-coiners who are jealous that we missed the boat :
1. it's a Ponzi.
2. It's a Pyramid scheme scam.
3. it has no use.
4. it's worthless digital 0s and 1s.
5. it's only used by fraudsters.
6. you can't buy coffee or pizza with it.
7. it's going to zero and I can't wait.
Yawn
.
I'm actually more annoyed with myself for even engaging with you in the first place. You've been posting the same boring rubbish for over a year and I don't even know why you're permitted to post in the crypto currency threads when it's clear you hate them. I don't recall reading a single positive thing from you about them, it's all "Ponzi, pyramid, no use, going to zero" garbage. Why are you even here if you hate them so much? Is there an 'ignore' feature on this forum?
I have asked the same questions loads of times and not got an answer. How is that not being here to learn?! I'm literally asking questions to educate myself, and add to my understanding which is probably more comprehensive than you know, albeit our conclusions are different. The irony is that you claim to know about it, and yet can't answer 4 very basic questions when you're asked about it, and then accuse me of not engaging? 1. it's a Ponzi.
2. It's a Pyramid scheme scam.
3. it has no use.
4. it's worthless digital 0s and 1s.
5. it's only used by fraudsters.
6. you can't buy coffee or pizza with it.
7. it's going to zero and I can't wait.
Yawn
.I'm actually more annoyed with myself for even engaging with you in the first place. You've been posting the same boring rubbish for over a year and I don't even know why you're permitted to post in the crypto currency threads when it's clear you hate them. I don't recall reading a single positive thing from you about them, it's all "Ponzi, pyramid, no use, going to zero" garbage. Why are you even here if you hate them so much? Is there an 'ignore' feature on this forum?
Or should this thread be washed of everyone with an alternative point of view, such that it is no longer a discussion but a circle jerk of "hodlers" eager to tell everyone how much they've made and how its going to the moon?
knk said:
If there must be a buyer for every sale what happens when the price continues to drop? Who would buy BTC in a falling market?
At any given moment there can be more people wanting to buy or sell at a price than there is on the other side, but for every single trade there must be a buyer and a seller. If the price is dropping it is because the sellers are prepared to sell lower and lower, and each buyer is getting it cheaper than the last traded price. As to who would buy - you answered your own question. Everyone who is trying to "buy the dip" and sees value in the price they bought at. dimots said:
Taita said:
What are the limits per trip or annual for zipping to Ireland, buying gold or silver and bringing it back? Eg no VAT but below import levels?
Eta looks like you could have done the Estonia 0% VAT then bring into UK before brexit, as VAT (at 0%) was already paid.
Guess it is 20% currently although I read a few posts on a silver forum about differential VAT?
No VAT on gold in the UK. Or has that changed recently? Eta looks like you could have done the Estonia 0% VAT then bring into UK before brexit, as VAT (at 0%) was already paid.
Guess it is 20% currently although I read a few posts on a silver forum about differential VAT?
Edited by Taita on Friday 26th February 07:42
g4ry13 said:
Dan_1981 said:
XRP courtcase - any indication of how long it could drag on for? potential settlement timeframe etc?
My understanding was that Ripple had no interest in a settlement. They want a ruling that they're not a security. Article on the case here.
.. and one on the schedule agreement here.
I guess if one wanted a speculative punt, holding a little bit of XRP might not be a bad idea if Ripple were to win or reach a satisfactory settlement? Obviously, it could go south pretty quickly if Ripple come out of it badly.
Scootersp said:
whatxd said:
Condi,
I appreciate you entertaining me in this thread while my Bitcoin investment/gamble went 15x, even though you have mocked me several times.
This week though, I win. When the price broke $50k, I decided I didn't want to be part of the next correction in case it was a top/start of another long term downtrend, so I had a trailing stop limit at Coinbase Pro which I kept increasing as the price went up.
I sold almost everything, six figures, at $52k. Now in my early thirties, I have enough for a new Porsche and the financing for a self build or large renovation/extension project. Thank goodness I went with my gut and didn't listen to the likes of you and Lemming Train back in 2018.
Condi, is perhaps an extreme re this, I have a similar overall view point but don't feel superior about it, how can you to some extent given exactly what you have done! but I still don't 100% get it and arguably nothing can go exponential like it has, or usually if it does it'll come down hard too.I appreciate you entertaining me in this thread while my Bitcoin investment/gamble went 15x, even though you have mocked me several times.
This week though, I win. When the price broke $50k, I decided I didn't want to be part of the next correction in case it was a top/start of another long term downtrend, so I had a trailing stop limit at Coinbase Pro which I kept increasing as the price went up.
I sold almost everything, six figures, at $52k. Now in my early thirties, I have enough for a new Porsche and the financing for a self build or large renovation/extension project. Thank goodness I went with my gut and didn't listen to the likes of you and Lemming Train back in 2018.
IMO you have done great 'settling' for your six figures especially if you've bought something with it, hell if I were you I'd probably put a few in some other starter coins because in effect it's free money? It's fantastic almost certainly a once in a lifetime thing for you.
So looking at the overall picture, the person that bought yours what now happens to them in the coming years? Isn't it all just money in and money out and so there will be winners (lots now if they do what you do) and potential losers (later), unless confidence stays and more and more money comes in? (which is where the ponzi comparisons comes from - it's almost the perfect ponzi as you don't even need lure the buyers in with the promise of interest - I'm not saying it is one I'm just saying it is like one, people made money on Ponzi's too if they got out at some point before the carnage)
So hats off to you and I personally think you've firstly held out well and then cashed out to buy a life changing thing ie house, the glimmer you had of this is enough, I can change by life here, will come to everyone in it at some point and that could be a problem eventually.
When you sit back what have you done for this cash, nadda really, that's not a dig (some will be jealous obviously) just that most things that get you what you'll have taken large risk and/or lots of work.
Good luck all, whether in or out of the space.
Edited by Scootersp on Friday 26th February 08:22
tcoins worth around £10k from around £2.5k last Easter which I’ll either ride much higher or to nothing, then around half a Bitcoin. I’m sure the price will “crash” and go through a year long downtrend like 2018 at some point, when that will be remains to be seen. For me, I took a chance when everyone else was capitulating a few years ago and rather than risk being a bag holder and miss out on the chance of building my own house with my dad before he retires, I just seized the moment and set a stop limit as soon as my target number was reached.
When Bitcoin goes through another bear market of around a year and Condi and the like are doing a victory lap, just as they were in 2018, that’s when I’ll consider taking another chance. We’ll have to wait and see, for now I’m happy to be pretty much out and I’ll watch with interest from the sidelines.
whatxd said:
rather than risk being a bag holder and miss out on the chance of building my own house with my dad before he retires, I just seized the moment and set a stop limit as soon as my target number was reached.
Yep, amidst the discussions about the validities of these coins and who is right or wrong, you've identified the real personal importance here in doing something meaningful that then no one can take away from you. They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
g4ry13 said:
My understanding was that Ripple had no interest in a settlement. They want a ruling that they're not a security.
A big piece of information that came from the hearing in the 22nd...At least one exchange, as yet unnamed, approached the SEC in 2019 and specifically asked whether XRP was a security and were met with an inconclusive response.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/blockchain.news/posta...
I’m holding some XRP purely as a gamble.
Scootersp said:
Yep, amidst the discussions about the validities of these coins and who is right or wrong, you've identified the real personal importance here in doing something meaningful that then no one can take away from you.
They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
If selling is the hardest part you’re doing it wrong.They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
Taking profits and selling is the only way anything bought as an investment will work out.
HaplessBoyLard said:
A big piece of information that came from the hearing in the 22nd...
At least one exchange, as yet unnamed, approached the SEC in 2019 and specifically asked whether XRP was a security and were met with an inconclusive response.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/blockchain.news/posta...
I’m holding some XRP purely as a gamble.
Quite a few on Twitter that think it was Coinbase, as apparently they waited ages doing due diligence before offering XRP trading pairs in 2019.At least one exchange, as yet unnamed, approached the SEC in 2019 and specifically asked whether XRP was a security and were met with an inconclusive response.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/blockchain.news/posta...
I’m holding some XRP purely as a gamble.
skinnyman said:
So how high do we think Cardano will climb? Hit £1 recently. I've got 6000 coins I've held since 2017. I've been meaning to exchange some for Eth, but it just seems to keep climbing up
Keep it, Eth is bombing at the moment, partly due to the huge cost of conducting trades which only gets higher as the price rises. Cardano is climbing and should continue to do so. There's potentially some big Cardano stuff coming in 2021 so shows big promise. Only this week a Dubai based investment company said it was liquidating $750m and putting it into Cardano and Polkadot. Most crypto is down at the moment but Cardano is up, that should give you a reason to hold on to it?
nordboy said:
Keep it, Eth is bombing at the moment, partly due to the huge cost of conducting trades which only gets higher as the price rises.
Cardano is climbing and should continue to do so. There's potentially some big Cardano stuff coming in 2021 so shows big promise. Only this week a Dubai based investment company said it was liquidating $750m and putting it into Cardano and Polkadot. Most crypto is down at the moment but Cardano is up, that should give you a reason to hold on to it?
Exactly how I see it. Cardano is climbing and should continue to do so. There's potentially some big Cardano stuff coming in 2021 so shows big promise. Only this week a Dubai based investment company said it was liquidating $750m and putting it into Cardano and Polkadot. Most crypto is down at the moment but Cardano is up, that should give you a reason to hold on to it?
I don’t have a massive portfolio. Enough of my savings to hurt a little if I lost it all, but not so much that it would completely screw me. I could afford to lose it.
I had almost everything in ETH for a while, but it definitely seemed like something was holding it back. It tends to vaguely follow BTC, but the rises were smaller and the dips seemed bigger.
When everything started dipping hard a few days ago I sold all the ETH for USDT so I could decide where to put the money without losing any more of my gains. I lost a bit more than I otherwise would have because the system was so congested it took me 3 hours to get my ETH out of my wallet and into the exchange.
I put about 2/3 of the proceeds into ADA and the rest into DOT. ADA has bucked the trend since. DOT is a little flat, but there’s stuff coming through in the near future I think.
The upcoming launch of Kylin on the Polkadot network looks interesting.
Mr Whippy said:
Scootersp said:
Yep, amidst the discussions about the validities of these coins and who is right or wrong, you've identified the real personal importance here in doing something meaningful that then no one can take away from you.
They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
If selling is the hardest part you’re doing it wrong.They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
Taking profits and selling is the only way anything bought as an investment will work out.
What would have been your advice to him when he'd doubled his money, or then tripled it? sell then sell now sell later, I don't think it's that easy to know when to sell is it? To me any investment that doubles in a relatively short time frame is a great one, but on early entry Bitcoin it wouldn't have exactly been optimal. So ok maybe not the hardest bit but I can see how those in it now might not want to, or at least be having an internal battle about it?
Scootersp said:
Mr Whippy said:
Scootersp said:
Yep, amidst the discussions about the validities of these coins and who is right or wrong, you've identified the real personal importance here in doing something meaningful that then no one can take away from you.
They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
If selling is the hardest part you’re doing it wrong.They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
Taking profits and selling is the only way anything bought as an investment will work out.
What would have been your advice to him when he'd doubled his money, or then tripled it? sell then sell now sell later, I don't think it's that easy to know when to sell is it? To me any investment that doubles in a relatively short time frame is a great one, but on early entry Bitcoin it wouldn't have exactly been optimal. So ok maybe not the hardest bit but I can see how those in it now might not want to, or at least be having an internal battle about it?
Scootersp said:
Mr Whippy said:
Scootersp said:
Yep, amidst the discussions about the validities of these coins and who is right or wrong, you've identified the real personal importance here in doing something meaningful that then no one can take away from you.
They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
If selling is the hardest part you’re doing it wrong.They do say sometimes selling is the hardest part, probably your age/outlook and the above goal helped you decide. They say speculate to accumulate and you've definitely done that, even if it doubled from here you are still a house to the good and it's all hindsight then. Must be a great feeling! almost like free money? enjoy the design and build.
Taking profits and selling is the only way anything bought as an investment will work out.
What would have been your advice to him when he'd doubled his money, or then tripled it? sell then sell now sell later, I don't think it's that easy to know when to sell is it? To me any investment that doubles in a relatively short time frame is a great one, but on early entry Bitcoin it wouldn't have exactly been optimal. So ok maybe not the hardest bit but I can see how those in it now might not want to, or at least be having an internal battle about it?
I'm still bullish on BTC medium term and added to my holding this week when it went under £32k. I was planning to make a sizeable purchase of ETH instead but there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding ETH at the moment with the ongoing tx cost issues and I don't think the current price is low enough to take a punt. I still think my bitcoins will prove to be the better gamble but big cojones needed to hold at these prices and also need a strong stomach to cope with the $10k daily swings But as we keep being told : BTC is worthless and going to zero, can't use it for anything, just a scam etc, so 100% guaranteed to lose everything, told you so etc.
Edited by PH4555 on Saturday 27th February 21:27
PH4555 said:
The BTC drop was imo down to the USDT case. I've been monitoring the USDT issuance/market cap since last Monday and it's virtually flatlined compared to the previous 4 weeks. Could be pure coincidence but the timing would match along with the resulting sell-off by the weak hands.
I'm still bullish on BTC medium term and added to my holding this week when it went under £32k. I was planning to make a sizeable purchase of ETH instead but there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding ETH at the moment with the ongoing tx cost issues and I don't think the current price is low enough to take a punt. I still think my bitcoins will prove to be the better gamble but big cojones needed to hold at these prices and also need a strong stomach to cope with the $10k daily swings But as we keep being told : BTC is worthless and going to zero, can't use it for anything, just a scam etc, so 100% guaranteed to lose everything, told you so etc.
Not everyone who sells is a “weak hand”. When the price went from $42k to $29k I barely flinched despite “losing” £50k. When it’s time to move on to new ventures, it’s time to move on. I'm still bullish on BTC medium term and added to my holding this week when it went under £32k. I was planning to make a sizeable purchase of ETH instead but there's a lot of uncertainty surrounding ETH at the moment with the ongoing tx cost issues and I don't think the current price is low enough to take a punt. I still think my bitcoins will prove to be the better gamble but big cojones needed to hold at these prices and also need a strong stomach to cope with the $10k daily swings But as we keep being told : BTC is worthless and going to zero, can't use it for anything, just a scam etc, so 100% guaranteed to lose everything, told you so etc.
Edited by PH4555 on Saturday 27th February 21:27
There are a lot of 2017 bag holders who stuck it out and believe the price will peak in December at a price of $100k+ just like the 2013 and 2017 peaks came at the end of the year. If all those guys are going to be selling for 100k, who is going to be buying? A whole new wave of fomo buyers who thinks it’s going to $1 million?
Genuine question, who is going to be buying to allow all these plebs to sell out when the price reaches $100k and what will their intentions be? Is there enough dumb money out there to facilitate such a frenzy?
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