RE: PH Footnote: Crossed out

RE: PH Footnote: Crossed out

Friday 20th October 2017

PH Footnote: Crossed out

The wave of near-identical crossovers approaching the market triggers a deep sense of ennui



I well remember the first time I drove a Nissan Qashqai. Not for anything positive about the car's lacklustre dynamic performance, but because the PR guy who called after the story was published was nearly in tears about how negative it was. The Qashqai itself was a mushy not-quite-anything that fell between every stool. The group test that followed saw it losing to both hatchbacks and SUVs. It would never catch on.

More fool me. A decade later and the crossover segment has expanded like an e-coli outbreak.


For all car companies like to boast about how exciting and imaginative they are, the industry's default position on product planning is always "me too!" Ideas are contagious, both good and bad, for the simple fact that development of any new model starts around three years in advance of a car going on sale. No manufacturer wants to miss out on what, if it fails to act at the first opportunity, might have turned out to be a hot new niche.

So when the Peugeot 206 CC and its low-cost retractable hardtop came out it took about five minutes for the chief exec of almost every rival manufacturer to order his boffins to "build me one of those", and five years later the market was flooded with overweight, ungainly folding roof cabrios. Go back a bit further and a similar mass hysteria followed the launch of the original Renault Megane Scenic, the first compact people-carrier, and the one that spawned a starting grid of mostly lacklustre rivals: remember the Nissan Almera Tino or Toyota Corolla Verso?


But this is bigger, and worse, crossover overload. Many are already out in the wild, dozens more of these not-quite SUVs set to hit the market in the next couple of years. The official logic is that buyers like them (fair enough) and that they can be sold around the world, even in territories that don't like hatchbacks. But they're also a sign of a startling lack of imagination.

Many are fractionally altered from each other. Volkswagen Group has stirred its MQB porridge pot to produce the very similar Volkswagen T-Roc, Skoda Karoq, Seat Ateca and Audi Q2, all of which understudy slightly bigger 'utes spun from the self same architecture.

Having just experienced the T-Roc I can report that it's a well engineered product that drives just as you'd expect, like a taller Golf or a slightly more agile Tiguan. It's well-equipped, reasonably practical, inoffensive to look at and - being a Volkswagen - set to be sold with some enticingly low monthly payments. The company reckons it will become its third biggest seller in the UK, behind Polo and Golf.


But it's also depressing. The T-Roc (and its ilk) trigger precisely none of the want-one buzz that proximity to shiny new metal normally sets off in me. In the same way that I never considered buying an MPV even when I really needed a car with more than five seats (opting for a 120,000-mile seven-seat Merc E-Class wagon instead) I've got no desire for any modern crossover, and doubt that will change even when the inevitable performance versions follow.

The fact that they tend to be taking the engineering resources that would normally be directed to create more interesting models adds insult to injury; the T-Roc has effectively taken the place in the VW hierarchy of the Scirocco. The market decided that one: the Coupe was selling in ever decreasing numbers and still sat on the Golf V platform, but it still feels like a loss. Maybe not liking crossovers will become a petrolhead shibboleth, a way of spotting a kindred spirit like the fetishization of manual gearboxes in unlikely vehicles in the 'States.


I'm not blaming manufacturers for following the money, but the groupthink means that crossovers are going to start to feel old quickly. People are being drawn to them because they are different, taller and more rugged than hatchbacks. But, at current rates, it won't be long until they become the norm, nothing more than default vehicles. At which point punters might opt to switch back to the lower, lighter cars that - as basic physics dictate - are always going to handle better.

That's what I'm hoping. But I've been wrong before.

Author
Discussion

DBRacingGod

Original Poster:

609 posts

191 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
A good point well made, but utterly beyond the ken of the likes of Mrs DBRG who simply wants something roomy into which she can shove the kids and potter from A to B in reasonable comfort and with an elevated driving position.
Yes, she has a Qashquai.

Uncle John

4,270 posts

190 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
The Karoq and Ateca are rebadged Tiguans are they not? They are a size above the T-Roc.

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
DBRacingGod said:
A good point well made, but utterly beyond the ken of the likes of Mrs DBRG who simply wants something roomy into which she can shove the kids and potter from A to B in reasonable comfort and with an elevated driving position.
Yes, she has a Qashquai.
They're brilliant for that purpose. I couldn't live without one as a family car. Better than estates for a variety of reasons and despite image, which I am not overly bothered about.

Nick Young

250 posts

249 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
I read that wrong, thought you were comparing a Qashqai to a stool and wondered, what sort - one with 4 legs, or the other sort...

RenesisEvo

3,602 posts

218 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
A well written piece that mirrors my thoughts and feeling when I was wandering around the VAG hall at the Frankfurt motor show last month. A brace of new hot-off-the-press cars and I found myself utterly uninterested. One peek inside the T-Roc confirmed all I needed to know - the same dull VW dashboard seen everywhere else. Nearby SEAT and Skoda sported almost identical looking cars with exactly the same traits. They appeal to the head in so many areas (hence the sales boom), but they fail dismally to register with the heart. It doesn't help that no manufacturer has yet delivered a cross-over that genuinely appeals aesthetically (they're all too tall and too short) or dynamically.

I too am holding out for the day when saloons and estate make a return (I had hoped the excitement over the KIA Proceed Concept, a slinky estate hiding at a far corner at the same show, might be a pre-cursor to this). The tidal wave of MPVs eventually washed out - so too I hope for cross-overs.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
See also:
Crossland X / C3 Aircross.
Grandland X / C5 Aircross / DS 7 / 3008 / 5008.

Fetchez la vache

5,568 posts

213 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
ennui? shibboleth?
Are you trying to get a job at the guardian?

V8 FOU

2,970 posts

146 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
But what people, especialy on PH, "want" doesn't sell in big numbers.
GT86, anyone?

All these SUV's etc are a bag of stools as far as I am concerend, but they sell. In big profitable numbers.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
V8 FOU said:
But what people, especialy on PH, "want" doesn't sell in big numbers.
GT86, anyone?

All these SUV's etc are a bag of stools as far as I am concerend, but they sell. In big profitable numbers.
Well, they rent. In big profitable numbers.

I just hope - for the manufacturers' sakes, that they continue to sell when they come back after three years.

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
Well their shape really doesn't appeal to me but sadly I can't find better in terms of practicality/size/cost. I'd love to hear about any alternative that I have missed though.

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Well, they rent. In big profitable numbers.
People tend to prefer the cheapest way of driving them, whether they rent or own. So if renting is cheaper, what does it matter ?

Uncle Ron

401 posts

98 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
RenesisEvo said:
They appeal to the head in so many areas (hence the sales boom), but they fail dismally to register with the heart. .
Unfortunately this is the way the world is moving. To 95+% of people, a car is little more than a tool and the size of that group is increasing at a rate of knots. Where it ends isn't pretty - shared ownership autonomous vehicles that move you where you want for a coupe of pence a mile in reasonable comfort, safety and at reasonable speed.




unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
Fetchez la vache said:
ennui? shibboleth?
Are you trying to get a job at the guardian?
hehe

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
DBRacingGod said:
A good point well made, but utterly beyond the ken of the likes of Mrs DBRG who simply wants something roomy into which she can shove the kids and potter from A to B in reasonable comfort and with an elevated driving position.
Yes, she has a Qashquai.
They're brilliant for that purpose. I couldn't live without one as a family car. Better than estates for a variety of reasons and despite image, which I am not overly bothered about.
Such as? Every one I've experienced is less roomy, less comfortable and less practical than a similarly-sized estate. High driving position is the only aspect which is a bonus imho.

saaby93

32,038 posts

177 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Fetchez la vache said:
ennui? shibboleth?
Are you trying to get a job at the guardian?
hehe
article said:
bigger 'utes
What's an 'utes ?

Toby C

19 posts

206 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
nickfrog said:
DBRacingGod said:
A good point well made, but utterly beyond the ken of the likes of Mrs DBRG who simply wants something roomy into which she can shove the kids and potter from A to B in reasonable comfort and with an elevated driving position.
Yes, she has a Qashquai.
They're brilliant for that purpose. I couldn't live without one as a family car. Better than estates for a variety of reasons and despite image, which I am not overly bothered about.
Such as? Every one I've experienced is less roomy, less comfortable and less practical than a similarly-sized estate. High driving position is the only aspect which is a bonus imho.
Spot on. You end up with a taller boot, not a bigger one. And the minute you want to carry anything of any size, you end up needing a roofbox or, worse still, a trailer.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
Just had a Seat Ateca as a hire car in Spain. We'd ordered an estate car and as per usual, the hire car company didn't have what we'd booked so this was an upgrade apparently!

But despite my initial un-enthusiasm, whilst on holiday we actually had someone come up to the car, comment and ask us what it was. They seemed to love it, as did the rep at the hire car company who said that this was her favorite! Maybe it was the colour of the thing in white? I thought that they all might be crazy but simply put it down to the fact that it was a rather warm day and we happened to be parked next door to a bar.

On holiday the Ateca served it's basic purpose of getting us from A to B, but for me, there was nothing more to it than that. There was no sense of fun with the Ateca, no emotional attachment developed at all. The handling was okay, the space was okay, it performed okay and the fuel economy was okay. When we handed it back at the airport after 6 days and 700 x miles, I felt indifferent, not really sorry to hand it back in any way but I suppose equally, not disappointed in the car either.

So the Ateca was simply an 'okay' car, and if you're going to be happy with an 'okay' car then the Ateca is probably a good example of one of the many 'okay' cars you can buy (or rent).

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
nickfrog said:
DBRacingGod said:
A good point well made, but utterly beyond the ken of the likes of Mrs DBRG who simply wants something roomy into which she can shove the kids and potter from A to B in reasonable comfort and with an elevated driving position.
Yes, she has a Qashquai.
They're brilliant for that purpose. I couldn't live without one as a family car. Better than estates for a variety of reasons and despite image, which I am not overly bothered about.
Such as? Every one I've experienced is less roomy, less comfortable and less practical than a similarly-sized estate. High driving position is the only aspect which is a bonus imho.
Compare the boot size of a Tiguan to a Golf Estate, they're the same, although shaped differently. I find the Tiguan as comfortable (taller sidewalls help), more roomy and more practical (I can fit my MTB in it with two wheels on, but I can't in a Golf Estate). Yet it's cheaper on a lease, is shorter and therefore (a bit) easier to park in town. Only penalty for our use is mpg, but the delta is not shocking.

I have no issues with anyone preferring a Golf Estate, we're all different.

Toby C said:
Spot on. You end up with a taller boot, not a bigger one. And the minute you want to carry anything of any size, you end up needing a roofbox or, worse still, a trailer.
Not IME, the front passenger seat folds in the Tiguan, not the in Golf Estate. No doubt this is clever marketing at play though !

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 20th October 14:29

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
article said:
bigger 'utes
What's an 'utes ?
Rogue apostrophe apart, it's Aussie for "pickup" - short for utility vehicle.

toppstuff

13,698 posts

246 months

Friday 20th October 2017
quotequote all
Maybe this isn't the site for saying this, but I completely disagree.

These cars serve a purpose simply because they are excellent daily drivers. Liking them or wanting them is nothing to be ashamed of.

I certainly do not lament the passing of the Scirocco. It was a clumsy, odd looking, gimpy car that offered nothing over an equivalent Golf.

Which we know to be true because few people actually cared in enough numbers to buy them.

This new range of taller cars, are generally well suited to life in the UK and its rubbish roads. I like 'em.