What sort of a return can I get on £650k?
Discussion
joyless lobotomised parrot said:
Amazing that it's taken PH 20 years to accept that "financial advisers" are a waste of time and money.
To the OP: I spent a few months in 2017 trying to get a poxy 10% annual return from spare funds. 'Finance professionals' look at you as though you're mad when you say you need 10%. Seriously. They think you're kidding.
First point is wrong. To the OP: I spent a few months in 2017 trying to get a poxy 10% annual return from spare funds. 'Finance professionals' look at you as though you're mad when you say you need 10%. Seriously. They think you're kidding.
Second point, they aren’t thinking you’re mad because you ‘need’ 10% but that you are asking for 10% (assuming you want that low risk with the capital guaranteed?)
What PH does highlight time and time again is that most people have near zero comprehension of financial risk or the correct pricing of it. Hence you get loopy remarks about bitcoin, mini bonds, P2P, penny shares or wanting 10% without risk etc.
DonkeyApple said:
dingg said:
Sidicks
He was quoting Donkeyapple who you must agree knows his onions
Food for thought
Every industry has its pretty uniform % of Windows lickers, alsorans, clock watchers, sub normals and plums. But few industries have the ability to decimate your wealth or wealth potential when you make the error of choosing one of them through not being bothered to take the time to invest in weeding them out. He was quoting Donkeyapple who you must agree knows his onions
Food for thought
sidicks said:
Ali Chappussy said:
No disrespect to our wonderful members, surely you should be talking with a IFA, not us lot!
There are a few IFAs on here who can provide high level, indicative information to help inform the OP before he sees an IFA!
joyless lobotomised parrot said:
I'd be interested to hear what replies you got to your question.
So, to conclude, you’ve joined the thread to make ignorant comments / troll, without having read anything that has previously been posted?No change there then.
Edited by sidicks on Monday 21st May 16:52
NRS said:
The problem is it is easier said than done, if you have no/little investing background. Yes, some people you can weed out pretty quickly through what you said. But others might just be well meaning but incompetent. And you can't tell quickly if someone is useless, as a lot of the stuff is long term. For example one might get great returns the first 2 years, but then you get decimated the next year during a recession as they were very high risk. The other might lose money the first year or two, but they were counter-cyclical and so in the long term you did really well.
Risk profile is something that an advisor will be focusing on heavily so if you decide to opt for high risk investments then this would be highlighted. Likewise the low risk aspect and its relationship to expected returns. I think a very big problem is that people have a tendency to what a fixed percentage return as they work out that they have £500k and want £50k a year income so 10% is what they want but that’s a demand that is catered for by the unregulated and scam end of the market because it’s not something that is achievable.
Most IFAs are faced with exactly the same problem: prospective clients who have not saved enough or unwilling to save enough to ensure a retirement income commensurate with their expectations. And the IFA gets the blame for not being some kind of charitable magician.
Let’s face it, huge numbers of medium to high earners are now hoping that property prices stay high so that they can cash in the equity they’ve done nothing to earn to create money to live off in retirement because they’ve over spent in their working lifetime. Others are desperately hoping that their parents will die swiftly and preferably very soon so that they can get their hands on someone else’s money to bridge their shortfall due to excessive spending. No advisor can fix that problem.
The first step anyone needs to take when embarking on engaging an IFA is to ensure that they are a resident of planet Earth and not a happy shopper from planet delusion.
DonkeyApple said:
First point is wrong.
Ahhh you'll just have to argue it out with this bloke....DonkeyApple said:
The final bit of information to consider is that very many IFAs are f
king idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter. Speak to more than one and only after a few will you begin to get a feel for spotting the well spoken window lickers versus those who actually listen to your answers and structure their responses based on who you are.
king idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter. Speak to more than one and only after a few will you begin to get a feel for spotting the well spoken window lickers versus those who actually listen to your answers and structure their responses based on who you are. joyless lobotomised parrot said:
DonkeyApple said:
First point is wrong.
Ahhh you'll just have to argue it out with this bloke....DonkeyApple said:
The final bit of information to consider is that very many IFAs are fking idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter. Speak to more than one and only after a few will you begin to get a feel for spotting the well spoken window lickers versus those who actually listen to your answers and structure their responses based on who you are.
king idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter. Speak to more than one and only after a few will you begin to get a feel for spotting the well spoken window lickers versus those who actually listen to your answers and structure their responses based on who you are. sidicks said:
Ali Chappussy said:
No disrespect to our wonderful members, surely you should be talking with a IFA, not us lot!
There are a few IFAs on here who can provide high level, indicative information to help inform the OP before he sees an IFA!joyless lobotomised parrot said:
DonkeyApple said:
First point is wrong.
Ahhh you'll just have to argue it out with this bloke....DonkeyApple said:
The final bit of information to consider is that very many IFAs are fking idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter. Speak to more than one and only after a few will you begin to get a feel for spotting the well spoken window lickers versus those who actually listen to your answers and structure their responses based on who you are.
king idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter. Speak to more than one and only after a few will you begin to get a feel for spotting the well spoken window lickers versus those who actually listen to your answers and structure their responses based on who you are. You have an issue with 100% of IFAs, I have merely pointed out that many are not up to scratch, as per many people in all lines of work and that investing time in filtering can save a fortune.
But anyone with enough income/funds to benefit from enagaging the services of an IFA would appreciate all of that.
Grandad Gaz said:
So, how do you know if an IFA is useless if you know nothing about finances yourself?
It's a bit like getting a plumber in to install a heating system in your house. Do you follow his advice or not?
It's next to impossible, hence the high number of IFAs who continue to operate even though they're "xxxxx idiots".It's a bit like getting a plumber in to install a heating system in your house. Do you follow his advice or not?
https://www.unbiased.co.uk/ was posted by someone on another thread. I have no view on the information obtained from that website
It could almost be a procurement exercise: pre-qualification questionnaire to weed out the criminals, the incompetents, the chancers and the ne'er do wells, followed by a tender process based on quality and price. Probably needs a procurement adviser.
sidicks said:
V8 Fettler said:
I would expect a good IFA to use his expertise to provide good advice to punters, an element of that advice will involve crystal ball gazing, just as there is in many other professional fields e.g. designing tall buildings to withstand high winds.
An entirely nonsense analogy.V8 Fettler said:
A good IFA will understand his clients and the various investment sectors, unfortunately - as we know - "...very many IFAs are xxxxx idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter."
No point in trying to discuss complex issues with someone so blinkered and ignorant about the topic under discussion. I’m out.DonkeyApple said:
V8 Fettler said:
Unfortunately, most people don't have the ability to select a good IFA or meaningfully review recommendations from an IFA. A punter should reasonably expect that an IFA is competent and acts in the punter's best interests. However, as we know, "...very many IFAs are xxxxx idiots. Grubby little salesmen who only aren’t selling windows because they attended a good school and managed just enough to avoid being an estate agent or job recruiter."
Which is why you interview a series of them as if you are seeking an employee. Taking that common sense attitude to the scenario really does filter out the lower quantiles of simple one size fits all tied product vendors. I think it is fair to say that if you are accumulating the wealth at a level that would benefit from an IFA then you have the brains to interview a sufficient number of them to find one of the good ones. The real issue is that the industry works very well on the fact that very many of the people with brains seemingly chose not to use them when seeking to invest their wealth that they have derived from having brains in the first instance.
V8 Fettler said:
How is it nonsense to provide good professional advice, perhaps with an element of crystal ball gazing? If you have a problem with DA's description of many IFAs, I suggest that you take it up with him. Would my alternative description of "parasites" sit better with you?
Once again, you appear to be confused between providing ‘good professional advice’ and ‘predicting the future’.Never mind.
Edited by sidicks on Monday 21st May 19:06
V8 Fettler said:
How is it nonsense to provide good professional advice, perhaps with an element of crystal ball gazing? If you have a problem with DA's description of many IFAs, I suggest that you take it up with him. Would my alternative description of "parasites" sit better with you?
I think to use an analogy, I work in IT, if asked I can recommend products and companies that have a good proven track record and of course I can do that.That doesn't mean I won't wake up tomorrow and find they've been hacked/breached/whatever "bad thing", and if that does happen it doesn't mean I gave duff advice, it's simple that you can't predict some things.
I do wonder if one of the issues with IFA's is that people do expect them to be able to predict markets, whilst missing that if they could they would probably be sitting on a beach somewhere making much more than they ever did as an IFA?
sidicks said:
V8 Fettler said:
How is it nonsense to provide good professional advice, perhaps with an element of crystal ball gazing? If you have a problem with DA's description of many IFAs, I suggest that you take it up with him. Would my alternative description of "parasites" sit better with you?
Once again, you appear to be confused between providing ‘good professional advice’ and ‘predicting the future’.Never mind.
Edited by sidicks on Monday 21st May 19:06
Plenty of good professional advice provided in the construction and engineering sectors that includes an element of crystal ball gazing.
DonkeyApple said:
Not really as anyone who is not analphabetic appreciates.
You have an issue with 100% of IFAs, I have merely pointed out that many are not up to scratch, as per many people in all lines of work and that investing time in filtering can save a fortune.
But anyone with enough income/funds to benefit from enagaging the services of an IFA would appreciate all of that.
Not so sure it's a matter of literacy/illiteracy. Think you're more questioning how "very many financial advisers are fYou have an issue with 100% of IFAs, I have merely pointed out that many are not up to scratch, as per many people in all lines of work and that investing time in filtering can save a fortune.
But anyone with enough income/funds to benefit from enagaging the services of an IFA would appreciate all of that.
king idiots" is interpreted. So more a matter of interpretation. Actually I have no such belief. I don't think they are mostly 'fking idiots'. I believe they are (mostly) a waste of time and money, which is not the same thing at all.I take it you didn't intend to mean "very many" as "most". Because if you did then it would be tricky to see how your next suggestion - that finding a good IFA requires interviewing a few - wouldn't potentially lead to a very long waste of time resource involving interviewing hundreds of them. Or is the selection not so much about finding one who isn't amongst the "very many" as it is about finding the 'least worst'?
Can't think why anyone with enough income/funds to benefit from the services of one of these few IFAs who aren't "f
king idiots" would go through some kind of multi-interview processes. Why wouldn't they do what they do when they take on any other professional adviser. Take on a referral. From their accountant. Or lawyer. Or chum who got profitable advice from one. I mean everyone who's on PH much has heard of Sarnie for mortgages. He's well known for being able to do effective work. And I appreciate that very many of the IFAs you've experience of have been f
king idiots but surely there's ONE you could recommend?I could recommend one from here tho he's not on much. He's certainly not a "f
king idiot" - far from it. A more pleasant and honest person than Ginge R it would be hard to meet. And perfectly capable of using the computer to locate the best products best suited to any individual such as the financial institutions supply.BUT.
There is a type of 'financial advice' that I'm afraid he can't give me. All of a sudden I need a few hundred grand and I need it in pretty short order. How do I do it? There are quite a few PHers I would love to ask and who could give me some very good (and more importantly, effective) advice. And after all, it is just some advice on how to increase my finances that I'm after. But somehow I'm not sure an IFA is the right person to ask for that type of financial advice. (And I have an accountant for the tax stuff).
I'm probably wrong, but I don't think anyone - IFA or not - is going to give the OP a realistic suggestion he can use or the name of an IFA to help either. So I've got a funny feeling it'll end up with the house getting rented out. The rest is just a bit too tricky.
DonkeyApple said:
NRS said:
The problem is it is easier said than done, if you have no/little investing background. Yes, some people you can weed out pretty quickly through what you said. But others might just be well meaning but incompetent. And you can't tell quickly if someone is useless, as a lot of the stuff is long term. For example one might get great returns the first 2 years, but then you get decimated the next year during a recession as they were very high risk. The other might lose money the first year or two, but they were counter-cyclical and so in the long term you did really well.
Risk profile is something that an advisor will be focusing on heavily so if you decide to opt for high risk investments then this would be highlighted. Likewise the low risk aspect and its relationship to expected returns. I think a very big problem is that people have a tendency to what a fixed percentage return as they work out that they have £500k and want £50k a year income so 10% is what they want but that’s a demand that is catered for by the unregulated and scam end of the market because it’s not something that is achievable.
Most IFAs are faced with exactly the same problem: prospective clients who have not saved enough or unwilling to save enough to ensure a retirement income commensurate with their expectations. And the IFA gets the blame for not being some kind of charitable magician.
Let’s face it, huge numbers of medium to high earners are now hoping that property prices stay high so that they can cash in the equity they’ve done nothing to earn to create money to live off in retirement because they’ve over spent in their working lifetime. Others are desperately hoping that their parents will die swiftly and preferably very soon so that they can get their hands on someone else’s money to bridge their shortfall due to excessive spending. No advisor can fix that problem.
The first step anyone needs to take when embarking on engaging an IFA is to ensure that they are a resident of planet Earth and not a happy shopper from planet delusion.
Yes, it will be "interesting" to see how the large group relying on house money evolves. Will it destroy a lot of OAPs if they all try and release capital at the same time and therefore drop the market, or is there enough demand to keep things ticking over for them.
I'm actually getting to the point where considering if I should get an IFA. 30 years old, got no debts and around £100 000 in savings (no mortgage as of now, only planning on perhaps 1-2 years where I am now). I think here there is quite a lot less tax avoidance here in Norway though.
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff