Is this fraud?

Author
Discussion

BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Pretty sure it is...

The FiL has offered to pay for the OH's rather large garage bill after the turbo blew up. Fine so far.

However, he's asked her to request the invoice under the name of his business. She doesn't work for him and neither do I so hard to argue the car is for business use!

I am a bit peeved for the obvious moral reason (tax evasion doesn't sit well with me, we all have to pay our way etc) and also for the potential exposure to wrong-doing for me and my wife (I am the legal owner of the vehicle as I paid for the car originally).

Am I looking at this the right way or missing something?

Thanks, folks

/ps sorry for new account, bit sensitive.


PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Then refuse his offer if it concerns you.

2 sMoKiN bArReLs

30,230 posts

234 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Yep

Clearly going to offset the bill against tax, and if vat registered going to reclaim the vat.


IanJ9375

1,467 posts

215 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Grip, the getting of is needed here.....

BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Then refuse his offer if it concerns you.
Which is my intention.

But I was keen to understand if I was correct or being unduly cautious/potentially sanctimonious about something that is, in fact, legitimate. Hence seeking input.

BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
IanJ9375 said:
Grip, the getting of is needed here.....
Why do you say that?

irocfan

40,152 posts

189 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
tell him you appreciate the offer but.... it seems to sail dangerously close to fraud and you' rather not put him or you in an awkward situation?

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
It's the FiL and possibly the garage taking the risk, not you. By putting it through his business he'll still end up paying, merely (incorrectly) offsetting some against tax.

UpTheIron

3,992 posts

267 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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What is his trade? Just wondering if he has a plausible business reason...

BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
He's automotive audio supplier.

Tbh I rarely get involved where the in-laws are concerned but in the 10 years since I've been with the OH I've rarely seen them offer their daughter a hand and this was quite nice for the wife, rather than relying on me to plug the gap as I am usually only too happy to do - just a shame it seems to come with 'strings'.


BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
It's the FiL and possibly the garage taking the risk, not you. By putting it through his business he'll still end up paying, merely (incorrectly) offsetting some against tax.
Perhaps.

But in asking my wife to request the invoice in the name of the business she has no connection with, surely she loses plausible deniability? I think it's this willingness to place her in a potentially awkward situation that has got my back up tbh. Maybe it's a case of "everyone does it" but something doesn't sit right with me.

WindyCommon

3,354 posts

238 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
He hasn’t avoided/evaded any tax yet, and you may be being hasty in assuming that he plans to.

Badda

2,653 posts

81 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
What's it actually got to do with you? It's your wife's car, her bill and his money.

Don't reply with 'I paid for the car' as I assume you're not living in the 1960s and consider yourself the Master who owns all.

So what if he intends to offset some tax? If you're that offended, tell him what you think of it and ask your wife to let you pay the bill instead.


Eric Mc

121,763 posts

264 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
The business can settle the bill on behalf of the son in law but it needs to do so in the correct manner.

The right way to go about this would be for the individual (i.e. the son in law) to pay the bill in the normal way. If the father in law wants to reimburse that individual for the cost of that bill, that is absolutely fine. It is not fraudulent in any way PROVIDED that the business accounts for the transaction in such a manner that it -

a) does not try to offset the cost against its business profits (the cost was not incurred wholly and exclusively for the purpose of the trade).

b) the business does not reclaim any VAT on the cost (not related to the trading activity of the business)

c) the company should account for the cost by allocating the payment to the proprietor's "Drawings" (if a sole trader) or to the "Director's Loan Account" (if a limited company).

Badda

2,653 posts

81 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
BarryTone said:
surely she loses plausible deniability?
What on earth are you on about now?

EddieSteadyGo

11,713 posts

202 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
BarryTone said:
I think it's this willingness to place her in a potentially awkward situation that has got my back up tbh. Maybe it's a case of "everyone does it" but something doesn't sit right with me.
Then pay the fking bill yourself. Your FiL is offering to pay his daughter's bill. Why come onto a forum and question if he is breaking the law? Just say thanks for the offer, and pay it yourself.

Efbe

9,251 posts

165 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
this story is unicorn bks... just saying.

BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
EddieSteadyGo said:
BarryTone said:
I think it's this willingness to place her in a potentially awkward situation that has got my back up tbh. Maybe it's a case of "everyone does it" but something doesn't sit right with me.
Then pay the fking bill yourself. Your FiL is offering to pay his daughter's bill. Why come onto a forum and question if he is breaking the law? Just say thanks for the offer, and pay it yourself.
Sorry tough guy, didn't mean to upset you.

Pretty sure my OP was framed as an enquiry, not a statement. Let me spell it out. I don't want to snub or undermine my father-in-law unnecessarily, or upset my wife if he has a legitimate reason to make this request - but I couldn't think of one - IANAL!

As it happens I work in a sensitive area and need to keep squeaky clean, but that and moral issues aside, I don't want to see my wife getting in hot water unwittingly. Is that not reasonable?



Edited by BarryTone on Wednesday 18th July 18:21

Badda

2,653 posts

81 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
BarryTone said:
I don't want to see my wife getting in hot water unwittingly.
Who do you think 'they' would go after if anything was wrong with a tax return - the person who paid the bill and whose tax is was or the owner of a car?

BarryTone

Original Poster:

14 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Badda said:
BarryTone said:
I don't want to see my wife getting in hot water unwittingly.
Who do you think 'they' would go after if anything was wrong with a tax return - the person who paid the bill and whose tax is was or the owner of a car?
Logically the guy submitting the tax bill.

But I don't know what the knock-on effect is. I'm assuming he would be recording the vehicle as business use at his end? What effect does that have on her insurance which is not business use? If she had a big smash would this flag up somewhere? etc etc