How much money do you need for retirement/pension?
Discussion
NickCQ said:
The Selfish Gene said:
Edible Roadkill said:
I think I'll plan to retire at 60, with the view to blow the lot in the 1st 15yrs (quality golden years) then live on bread and water for the remainder.
f
kit only live once might as well go out as I arrived (with nothing) having enjoyed myself in between. 
that is the plan! :-)f
kit only live once might as well go out as I arrived (with nothing) having enjoyed myself in between. Right now, well I'm only 35 but still might as well plan. Thankfully I've got a very generous final salary pension fund that's already got a few hundred grand in the pot but still I intend to spend in the early pensioner years, would maybe consider drawing the whole lot down even to 'reinvest / spend'!?.
If I spend the remainder after the quality retiree years in a council nursing home broke s
tting my pants and confused who cares I've enjoyed the quality years which to me is more important. I'll still go out with a bigger smile on my face than if said nursing home stripped
all my assets.
Edible Roadkill said:
I watched a thing a while back that reckons advanced medicines has plateaued regarding life expectancy and the age we're living to right now has maxed i.e well not live longer than we do now in this generation. The average life expectancy for a male in Scotland (ken) is 77.1. Added to that I've lived a less than careful life, shift worker. Smoked a litttle back when it was cool and drink like a fish but anyway yeah I think 75 is a bold claim to aim for.
Right now, well I'm only 35 but still might as well plan. Thankfully I've got a very generous final salary pension fund that's already got a few hundred grand in the pot but still I intend to spend in the early pensioner years, would maybe consider drawing the whole lot down even to 'reinvest / spend'!?.
If I spend the remainder after the quality retiree years in a council nursing home broke stting my pants and confused who cares I've enjoyed the quality years which to me is more important.
I'll still go out with a bigger smile on my face than if said nursing home stripped
all my assets.
1. That's certainly not the majority opinionRight now, well I'm only 35 but still might as well plan. Thankfully I've got a very generous final salary pension fund that's already got a few hundred grand in the pot but still I intend to spend in the early pensioner years, would maybe consider drawing the whole lot down even to 'reinvest / spend'!?.
If I spend the remainder after the quality retiree years in a council nursing home broke s
tting my pants and confused who cares I've enjoyed the quality years which to me is more important. I'll still go out with a bigger smile on my face than if said nursing home stripped
all my assets.
2. Average life expectancy is quite different than expected age at death for someone taking out an annuity.
Cheib said:
I've been doing a lot of work on this recently.....£30k on £1mil is a 3% return so doesn't sound ridiculous in current environment.
But what about the actual £1m?? He doesn't want to die having lived of the investment return and not having touched the capital. The capital needs to be spend too.If you retire and 65 and live until 90, £1m under the mattress gives you £40k a year even if you never earned a bean in interest.
zubzob said:
I heard that once you exclude early things like infant deaths, average life expectancy is actually going down in many developed countries. The 1% will be fine but I wouldn’t be certain of benefiting from medical advantages unless you go private. 75 seems a sensible bet.
Have heard the opposite to this, the advancements in medical technology are meant to explode in the next few years and life expectancy is meant to increase as well.I passed 60 in May and recently went to see my ifa. He suggested working on 4% drawdown.
Over recent years I’ve saved more in isa accounts (mix of funds and shares) so now have a 50/50 split between pensions and isa savings. The plan is to use up the isa money first (tax free) letting the pensions continue to grow then use drawdown and the state pension to keep me into my dotage. The minute I calculate a 30k return I’m off to the shed to restore the bikes I’ve got lined up awaiting restoration.
Over recent years I’ve saved more in isa accounts (mix of funds and shares) so now have a 50/50 split between pensions and isa savings. The plan is to use up the isa money first (tax free) letting the pensions continue to grow then use drawdown and the state pension to keep me into my dotage. The minute I calculate a 30k return I’m off to the shed to restore the bikes I’ve got lined up awaiting restoration.
zubzob said:
I heard that once you exclude early things like infant deaths, average life expectancy is actually going down in many developed countries. The 1% will be fine but I wouldn’t be certain of benefiting from medical advantages unless you go private. 75 seems a sensible bet.
You heard wrong. And making financial plans on the basis that you die at age 75 is a very poor strategy.Edible Roadkill said:
Right now, well I'm only 35 but still might as well plan. Thankfully I've got a very generous final salary pension fund that's already got a few hundred grand in the pot but still I intend to spend in the early pensioner years, would maybe consider drawing the whole lot down even to 'reinvest / spend'!?.
Depends on where interest rates are when you retire, I suppose.Defined benefit schemes are showing big cash-out values today but that won't always be the case.
zubzob said:
Haha touched a nerve I think!
Reuters last week:
"The first study looked at trends across 18 high-income countries and found that most countries experienced declines in life expectancy in 2015. This is the first time in recent decades that so many high-income countries simultaneously experienced declines in life expectancy for both men and women.
Out of 18 countries in the study, 12 experienced life expectancy declines among men and 11 experienced life expectancy declines among women.’
Bloomberg
The U.S. death rate rose last year, and 2017 likely will mark the third straight year of decline in American life expectancy, according to preliminary data.
Death rates rose for Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, flu and pneumonia, and three other leading causes of death, according to numbers posted online Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
I think the bit you're missing is that life expectancy is still expected to increase from where we are now. What has happened is that the extent of future increases has stalled (meaning that the projected life expectancy might be lower now than it was previously. That's quite different to what your earlier post implied!Reuters last week:
"The first study looked at trends across 18 high-income countries and found that most countries experienced declines in life expectancy in 2015. This is the first time in recent decades that so many high-income countries simultaneously experienced declines in life expectancy for both men and women.
Out of 18 countries in the study, 12 experienced life expectancy declines among men and 11 experienced life expectancy declines among women.’
Bloomberg
The U.S. death rate rose last year, and 2017 likely will mark the third straight year of decline in American life expectancy, according to preliminary data.
Death rates rose for Alzheimer's disease, diabetes, flu and pneumonia, and three other leading causes of death, according to numbers posted online Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Further, population life expectancy and annuitant life expectancy are very different things.
75 is still 10 years lower than typical current life expectancy for annuitants.
One of my former colleagues just retired at 70. He just took holidays, road-trips than after a few months he was back at work as contractor/freelancer. Only for a few days in a month though 
He is very healthy, sharp as usual, and to be honest does not need the money or pension at all, already quite comfortable - financially-
As once a wise-man said, "Work hard. Eat right. Exercise. Don't drink too much. And only buy what you can afford. It's not rocket science."
He is very healthy, sharp as usual, and to be honest does not need the money or pension at all, already quite comfortable - financially-
As once a wise-man said, "Work hard. Eat right. Exercise. Don't drink too much. And only buy what you can afford. It's not rocket science."
ooid said:
One of my former colleagues just retired at 70. He just took holidays, road-trips than after a few months he was back at work as contractor/freelancer. Only for a few days in a month though
He is very healthy, sharp as usual, and to be honest does not need the money or pension at all, already quite comfortable - financially-
As once a wise-man said, "Work hard. Eat right. Exercise. Don't drink too much. And only buy what you can afford. It's not rocket science."
Wise words. Although I'm less sure about the drink advice.....He is very healthy, sharp as usual, and to be honest does not need the money or pension at all, already quite comfortable - financially-
As once a wise-man said, "Work hard. Eat right. Exercise. Don't drink too much. And only buy what you can afford. It's not rocket science."
Plenty of data out there: for folk seriously interested (& I appreciate many are not!):
- MSE has a forum at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay....
- Mister Money Mustache has some entertaining reading (for some, & a bit US-focussed!) at https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
- For those who feel flustered at the wide range of choices FAs & IFAs (& the press etc) recommend, I found the short series from http://www.kroijer.com very useful.
ooid said:
One of my former colleagues just retired at 70. He just took holidays, road-trips than after a few months he was back at work as contractor/freelancer. Only for a few days in a month though
He is very healthy, sharp as usual, and to be honest does not need the money or pension at all, already quite comfortable - financially-
As once a wise-man said, "Work hard. Eat right. Exercise. Don't drink too much. And only buy what you can afford. It's not rocket science."
Also, finding a job you like enough to keep doing even when financial necessity goes away is a good thing.He is very healthy, sharp as usual, and to be honest does not need the money or pension at all, already quite comfortable - financially-
As once a wise-man said, "Work hard. Eat right. Exercise. Don't drink too much. And only buy what you can afford. It's not rocket science."
I retired at 56 about a year ago.
Investments split into pension, ISA, a second home (No mortgage) and cash from closing my IT Ltd company.
So far not touched anything except the savings.
Plan is to try and live of this until I'm 60 (achievable if I stop buying toys) then burn thru the ISA and finally the house before touching the pension.
Giving the pension more time to grow.
I will have some CG to pay on the house but it's officially my main residence now so that reduces the longer I keep it.
Total investment currently in 7 figures, if that's not enough I pity those less fortunate than I have been.
Investments split into pension, ISA, a second home (No mortgage) and cash from closing my IT Ltd company.
So far not touched anything except the savings.
Plan is to try and live of this until I'm 60 (achievable if I stop buying toys) then burn thru the ISA and finally the house before touching the pension.
Giving the pension more time to grow.
I will have some CG to pay on the house but it's officially my main residence now so that reduces the longer I keep it.
Total investment currently in 7 figures, if that's not enough I pity those less fortunate than I have been.
1 (£60,000.00) £29,431.96 (£60,000.00) £29,431.96 £969,431.96
2 (£60,000.00) £28,502.21 (£120,000.00) £57,934.17 £937,934.17
3 (£60,000.00) £27,544.17 (£180,000.00) £85,478.34 £905,478.34
4 (£60,000.00) £26,557.00 (£240,000.00) £112,035.34 £872,035.34
5 (£60,000.00) £25,539.80 (£300,000.00) £137,575.13 £837,575.13
6 (£60,000.00) £24,491.66 (£360,000.00) £162,066.79 £802,066.79
7 (£60,000.00) £23,411.64 (£420,000.00) £185,478.43 £765,478.43
8 (£60,000.00) £22,298.77 (£480,000.00) £207,777.19 £727,777.19
9 (£60,000.00) £21,152.05 (£540,000.00) £228,929.24 £688,929.24
10 (£60,000.00) £19,970.45 (£600,000.00) £248,899.69 £648,899.69
11 (£60,000.00) £18,752.91 (£660,000.00) £267,652.60 £607,652.60
12 (£60,000.00) £17,498.34 (£720,000.00) £285,150.94 £565,150.94
13 (£60,000.00) £16,205.61 (£780,000.00) £301,356.55 £521,356.55
14 (£60,000.00) £14,873.56 (£840,000.00) £316,230.12 £476,230.12
15 (£60,000.00) £13,501.00 (£900,000.00) £329,731.12 £429,731.12
16 (£60,000.00) £12,086.69 (£960,000.00) £341,817.81 £381,817.81
17 (£60,000.00) £10,629.36 (£1,020,000.00) £352,447.17 £332,447.17
18 (£60,000.00) £9,127.71 (£1,080,000.00) £361,574.87 £281,574.87
19 (£60,000.00) £7,580.38 (£1,140,000.00) £369,155.25 £229,155.25
20 (£60,000.00) £5,985.98 (£1,200,000.00) £375,141.23 £175,141.23
21 (£60,000.00) £4,343.09 (£1,260,000.00) £379,484.32 £119,484.32
22 (£60,000.00) £2,650.24 (£1,320,000.00) £382,134.56 £62,134.56
23 (£60,000.00) £905.89 (£1,380,000.00) £383,040.45 £3,040.45
24 (£60,000.00) £-891.52 (£1,440,000.00) £382,148.93 £-57,851.07
25 (£60,000.00) £-2,743.59 (£1,500,000.00) £379,405.34 £-120,594.66
26 (£60,000.00) £-4,652.00 (£1,560,000.00) £374,753.35 £-185,246.65
27 (£60,000.00) £-6,618.45 (£1,620,000.00) £368,134.90 £-251,865.10
28 (£60,000.00) £-8,644.71 (£1,680,000.00) £359,490.19 £-320,509.81
29 (£60,000.00) £-10,732.61 (£1,740,000.00) £348,757.58 £-391,242.42
30 (£60,000.00) £-12,884.01 (£1,800,000.00) £335,873.58 £-464,126.42
there's something maybe what you're looking for but I used a static 60k per year drawdown and 3% annual growth interest rate
so about 23 years give or take
2 (£60,000.00) £28,502.21 (£120,000.00) £57,934.17 £937,934.17
3 (£60,000.00) £27,544.17 (£180,000.00) £85,478.34 £905,478.34
4 (£60,000.00) £26,557.00 (£240,000.00) £112,035.34 £872,035.34
5 (£60,000.00) £25,539.80 (£300,000.00) £137,575.13 £837,575.13
6 (£60,000.00) £24,491.66 (£360,000.00) £162,066.79 £802,066.79
7 (£60,000.00) £23,411.64 (£420,000.00) £185,478.43 £765,478.43
8 (£60,000.00) £22,298.77 (£480,000.00) £207,777.19 £727,777.19
9 (£60,000.00) £21,152.05 (£540,000.00) £228,929.24 £688,929.24
10 (£60,000.00) £19,970.45 (£600,000.00) £248,899.69 £648,899.69
11 (£60,000.00) £18,752.91 (£660,000.00) £267,652.60 £607,652.60
12 (£60,000.00) £17,498.34 (£720,000.00) £285,150.94 £565,150.94
13 (£60,000.00) £16,205.61 (£780,000.00) £301,356.55 £521,356.55
14 (£60,000.00) £14,873.56 (£840,000.00) £316,230.12 £476,230.12
15 (£60,000.00) £13,501.00 (£900,000.00) £329,731.12 £429,731.12
16 (£60,000.00) £12,086.69 (£960,000.00) £341,817.81 £381,817.81
17 (£60,000.00) £10,629.36 (£1,020,000.00) £352,447.17 £332,447.17
18 (£60,000.00) £9,127.71 (£1,080,000.00) £361,574.87 £281,574.87
19 (£60,000.00) £7,580.38 (£1,140,000.00) £369,155.25 £229,155.25
20 (£60,000.00) £5,985.98 (£1,200,000.00) £375,141.23 £175,141.23
21 (£60,000.00) £4,343.09 (£1,260,000.00) £379,484.32 £119,484.32
22 (£60,000.00) £2,650.24 (£1,320,000.00) £382,134.56 £62,134.56
23 (£60,000.00) £905.89 (£1,380,000.00) £383,040.45 £3,040.45
24 (£60,000.00) £-891.52 (£1,440,000.00) £382,148.93 £-57,851.07
25 (£60,000.00) £-2,743.59 (£1,500,000.00) £379,405.34 £-120,594.66
26 (£60,000.00) £-4,652.00 (£1,560,000.00) £374,753.35 £-185,246.65
27 (£60,000.00) £-6,618.45 (£1,620,000.00) £368,134.90 £-251,865.10
28 (£60,000.00) £-8,644.71 (£1,680,000.00) £359,490.19 £-320,509.81
29 (£60,000.00) £-10,732.61 (£1,740,000.00) £348,757.58 £-391,242.42
30 (£60,000.00) £-12,884.01 (£1,800,000.00) £335,873.58 £-464,126.42
there's something maybe what you're looking for but I used a static 60k per year drawdown and 3% annual growth interest rate
so about 23 years give or take
Everyone should be aiming for a £1m pot. This is because a £1m pot will provide peanuts anyway. A lot of ordinary final salary pensions will be better than a £1m pot.
Achieving a £1m pot is easier if you start young. Earn over £150k (or rather an adjusted income of over £150k) and the max you can pay into a pension is £10k per year.
Stop paying that £600 per month pcp for that ordinary BMW, Audi, Range Rover and lump it all into your pension. A sub £1k Celica looks better anyway.
Achieving a £1m pot is easier if you start young. Earn over £150k (or rather an adjusted income of over £150k) and the max you can pay into a pension is £10k per year.
Stop paying that £600 per month pcp for that ordinary BMW, Audi, Range Rover and lump it all into your pension. A sub £1k Celica looks better anyway.
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