Outriggers: round 2.
Discussion
My 1999 Chimaera had never had the outriggers replaced, certainly up to the point I sold it mid-2017. Nor did they need doing: owners were having to replace them from shortly after I bought it in 2005 and, looking at how they rotted, I was able to stop any crud from building up between them and the body, which I think was the key.
Anyway. After all these years, how are the replacements holding up? Has anyone had to replace them twice yet?
Anyway. After all these years, how are the replacements holding up? Has anyone had to replace them twice yet?
A little bit of a thread resurrection of about a month.
I just put mine up on a ramp to have a look at everything before I start driving it again (not had the time). I’m so so happy that whoever owned mine in the past fitted stainless steel outriggers.
I remember the first time I scrapped some of the paint off and found them, it was such a rush of relief.
I just put mine up on a ramp to have a look at everything before I start driving it again (not had the time). I’m so so happy that whoever owned mine in the past fitted stainless steel outriggers.
I remember the first time I scrapped some of the paint off and found them, it was such a rush of relief.
I'm guessing this may be the key - who replaced them, and with what...
The outriggers on mine were replaced 11 years ago by Peninsular TVR - but I don't know whether they used mild or stainless steel, and this would obviously have a bearing on their longevity...
They seem to be fine - but isn't that always the case..?
Any information on Peninsular's materials for outrigger replacement would be much appreciated - feel free to PM me so as not to derail this thread...
Thanks...
The outriggers on mine were replaced 11 years ago by Peninsular TVR - but I don't know whether they used mild or stainless steel, and this would obviously have a bearing on their longevity...
They seem to be fine - but isn't that always the case..?
Any information on Peninsular's materials for outrigger replacement would be much appreciated - feel free to PM me so as not to derail this thread...
Thanks...
it all depends how good the job is done.....imo the body should be lifted at least a few inches, otherwise you cannot weld them properly.
there are workshops claiming that the body can remain unlifted.
hig-grade steel welding to mild-steel will be ok if the quality used is the correct type, like a CrMn 45-12
A CrNi Steel is a hig-grade steel, but a high-grade steel is not automatically a CrNi steel.
also a high-grade steel is not automaticaly stainless, but in colloquial speech high-grade steel means stainless, even thats not correct.
this said....most important for your chassis is NO winter use...and cleaning, cleaning, cleaning.....how many times during your ownership have you (power) washed your car from underneath?
there are workshops claiming that the body can remain unlifted.
hig-grade steel welding to mild-steel will be ok if the quality used is the correct type, like a CrMn 45-12
A CrNi Steel is a hig-grade steel, but a high-grade steel is not automatically a CrNi steel.
also a high-grade steel is not automaticaly stainless, but in colloquial speech high-grade steel means stainless, even thats not correct.
this said....most important for your chassis is NO winter use...and cleaning, cleaning, cleaning.....how many times during your ownership have you (power) washed your car from underneath?
The body CAN remain unlifted, this is how it was done on mine.
They cut 4 pieces out the floor above the areas to be welded, weld, paint, and then glass the pieces back in.
This was how Peninsula used to do it, and a few other places I believe, as there's a good few cars running around with this done.
Might not enable inspection of the whole chassis, but enables complete welding of the outriggers, and in a much quicker time than body off...
HTH,
Dom
They cut 4 pieces out the floor above the areas to be welded, weld, paint, and then glass the pieces back in.
This was how Peninsula used to do it, and a few other places I believe, as there's a good few cars running around with this done.
Might not enable inspection of the whole chassis, but enables complete welding of the outriggers, and in a much quicker time than body off...
HTH,
Dom
Edited by Dominic TVRetto on Monday 20th May 02:27
Dominic TVRetto said:
The body CAN remain unlifted, this is how it was done on mine.
They cut 4 pieces out the floor above the areas to be welded, weld, paint, and then glass the pieces back in.
what a botch: for repairing outtriggers, body will be "damaged" and re-patched againThey cut 4 pieces out the floor above the areas to be welded, weld, paint, and then glass the pieces back in.
would be the same as somebody would repair the diff by cutting a hole in the boot, instead of removing the diff from the car.
or cutting a hole in the bonnet to change spark-plugs.
Edited by LLantrisant on Monday 20th May 21:01
Better not strip one out then, you’ll condemn all the fibreglass 
I think it’s nothing more than a hole cutter and with some glassing skills probably stronger afterwards. Those holes will likely be for the centre tubes and don’t need to be very large so hardly a botch.
It is possible to do it without lifting body or cutting holes,,, it’s the new thing
A set of RT riggers,
Everything cut back to chassis and smoothed, riggers pre welded and painted other than ends, bolt up through wishbone points and line them up with body, drill some fixing holes at the corner plates, fit bolts loosely if you fancy, have a clever welder man and mate who posses bent welding equipment and good skills, they can reach all areas to be welded and the mate keeps it from catching fire. It’s been done.
I think it’s nothing more than a hole cutter and with some glassing skills probably stronger afterwards. Those holes will likely be for the centre tubes and don’t need to be very large so hardly a botch.
It is possible to do it without lifting body or cutting holes,,, it’s the new thing
A set of RT riggers,
Everything cut back to chassis and smoothed, riggers pre welded and painted other than ends, bolt up through wishbone points and line them up with body, drill some fixing holes at the corner plates, fit bolts loosely if you fancy, have a clever welder man and mate who posses bent welding equipment and good skills, they can reach all areas to be welded and the mate keeps it from catching fire. It’s been done.
What a bizarre attitude - but I guess if that's your response to being corrected on a forum, so be it...
It's simply a method of creating access holes to ensure the full integrity of the welding job - not really much different to having headlight access in the wheel arch, or for the clutch fluid reservoir...
Whereas an owner doing it themselves can afford to take the time to do a body off, this was a method to provide customers with a fully-welded outrigger replacement service without incurring the extensive labour charges that the body-off method entails.
The areas cut are neither load-bearing nor visible, so is less of an impact than changing say headlamps or rear light clusters for an alternate style, or cutting-in speaker holes, for instance.
It's nothing like the examples you give, as changing a diff is much less time-consuming then a body-off, and therefore costs a paying customer much less.
These were/are highly-regarded companies providing a replacement service to one of the cars inherent weaknesses at a reduced cost as compared to an very costly full body-off, making it a more affordable and accessible option to paying customers, rather than saying it can't be done and charging the customer considerably more billable hours.
It's a shame you don't have the humility to learn something when you are wrong - your attempt to belittle something you have zero prior knowledge of just highlights your lack of grace in light of your self-confessed ignorance.
It's simply a method of creating access holes to ensure the full integrity of the welding job - not really much different to having headlight access in the wheel arch, or for the clutch fluid reservoir...
Whereas an owner doing it themselves can afford to take the time to do a body off, this was a method to provide customers with a fully-welded outrigger replacement service without incurring the extensive labour charges that the body-off method entails.
The areas cut are neither load-bearing nor visible, so is less of an impact than changing say headlamps or rear light clusters for an alternate style, or cutting-in speaker holes, for instance.
It's nothing like the examples you give, as changing a diff is much less time-consuming then a body-off, and therefore costs a paying customer much less.
These were/are highly-regarded companies providing a replacement service to one of the cars inherent weaknesses at a reduced cost as compared to an very costly full body-off, making it a more affordable and accessible option to paying customers, rather than saying it can't be done and charging the customer considerably more billable hours.
It's a shame you don't have the humility to learn something when you are wrong - your attempt to belittle something you have zero prior knowledge of just highlights your lack of grace in light of your self-confessed ignorance.
phazed said:
I replaced mine without lifting the body or cutting holes...........
If you didn't lift the body Peter, how on earth were the welds completed between the upper radius of the tube and the floor 
My question is not a dig or a test I'm merely currently in the research phase so gathering knowledge on all options, perhaps welding equipment to make this possible is available these days and I'm just not aware of it
. I also seem to remember some 'V' the tube and weld the upper joint from below through the gap, they then close up the open 'V' with a fully welded half round sleeve, has anyone here used this method or had it done?
Another option would be what used to be known as 'The 4" Body Lift', you don't hear much about it these days but a few years ago I remember it was quite popular. Apparently there's quite a labour saving in lifting the body just four inches rather than fully removing it, and the four inches gives you all the access you need to complete a full 360 degree weld of all tubes?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
At the end of the day we'd all love a full chassis restoration but for many it's not financially viable so there will always be a demand for outrigger replacement, however for me the elephant in the room remains how the upper radius can be welded effectively?????
The last thing you want is a hole/gap in the weld where water could pass inside the tube as this will just rot it out from within, which was one issue the even the original chassis didn't suffer from. I'd be interested to hear from Steve_D from Southways on this, with so many proper chassis restorations under their belt the knowledge at Southways on the subject must be second to none
I fitted the outriggers, bolting them to the body and the wishbones et cetera. These were outriggers supplied by R T Racing and an absolutely perfect fit. They did not need trimming down at all. Well worth the money.
Next step was to employ a professional welder who came to my place and welded everything in situ while the car was on the ramp. He had some sort of bent nozzle thing on his welder and was quite happy to do it in situ although as he said it was awkward. All in all, he and his mate completed it all within two hours.
The hardest bit with me cleaning up the worlds so that I could prime and paint them which I did.
If you speak to Richard at R T Racing he will talk you through it quite happily and this is the procedure that they do when they fit outriggers at their premises.
Next step was to employ a professional welder who came to my place and welded everything in situ while the car was on the ramp. He had some sort of bent nozzle thing on his welder and was quite happy to do it in situ although as he said it was awkward. All in all, he and his mate completed it all within two hours.
The hardest bit with me cleaning up the worlds so that I could prime and paint them which I did.
If you speak to Richard at R T Racing he will talk you through it quite happily and this is the procedure that they do when they fit outriggers at their premises.
phazed said:
I fitted the outriggers, bolting them to the body and the wishbones et cetera. These were outriggers supplied by R T Racing and an absolutely perfect fit. They did not need trimming down at all. Well worth the money.
Next step was to employ a professional welder who came to my place and welded everything in situ while the car was on the ramp. He had some sort of bent nozzle thing on his welder and was quite happy to do it in situ although as he said it was awkward. All in all, he and his mate completed it all within two hours.
The hardest bit with me cleaning up the worlds so that I could prime and paint them which I did.
If you speak to Richard at R T Racing he will talk you through it quite happily and this is the procedure that they do when they fit outriggers at their premises.
Next step was to employ a professional welder who came to my place and welded everything in situ while the car was on the ramp. He had some sort of bent nozzle thing on his welder and was quite happy to do it in situ although as he said it was awkward. All in all, he and his mate completed it all within two hours.
The hardest bit with me cleaning up the worlds so that I could prime and paint them which I did.
If you speak to Richard at R T Racing he will talk you through it quite happily and this is the procedure that they do when they fit outriggers at their premises.
phazed said:
The outriggers are on eBay, can’t remember the price but quite fair.
The welders charged me about £150 if I remember correctly but somewhere along those lines.
Excellent Peter, very informative as always The welders charged me about £150 if I remember correctly but somewhere along those lines.
I was as Mat Smith's a while back and there was a Chimaera on the ramp having it's outrotters done, the guy Mat uses for the welding seemed very skilled and I also understand he has some sort of bent nozzle thing to help get above to join and create the 360 degree weld.
I'm no welder so I have to bow to this guy's superior knowledge and skill, what I saw of his welds they were absolutely lovely but I never got to see the bent nozzle thing, I praised him on his welds and he just looked at me smiling and said...
'They should be nice welds, I've been do this a fair few years now..
"I now wish I'd discussed what he was doing in more detail, especially how he gets to the upper tube radius', but what I did see looked superb so assuming the price is within budget I think I'll book mine in with Mat over this winter to have my rotters done there.
Thanks again Peter.
Dave.
ChimpOnGas said:
................... I'd be interested to hear from Steve_D from Southways on this, with so many proper chassis restorations under their belt the knowledge at Southways on the subject must be second to none
There will always be as many difference of opinion on issues like this as there are members on the forum.For our part we used to do body lift rigger repairs/replacement but were always aware that there were other areas that should have been addressed. We were also unhappy with having to give the customer back his car with new and old paintwork along with other patches of rust. It’s not nice going home at night feeling that the job could have been so much better,
Phazed had professional welders in to do his but we all too often see the other side.
Also it is not until you have a grit blasted chassis you find these.
Or the stress fractures we have found on Cerbera chassis .
Steve
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