Mum's home, not to give it to equity release or a care home.

[WinstonWolf]

Integroo said:

WinstonWolf said:

What is painfully apparent is you've never been in a home where patients have full blown dementia. I should probably have added the caveat "by the time they're ready for full time care" for the pedantic amongst us

Yes I have, many times.

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

[Integroo]

WinstonWolf said:

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

I am not shocked you have 70 odd thousand posts. I won't be responding to you anymore.

[WinstonWolf]

Integroo said:

WinstonWolf said:

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

I am not shocked you have 70 odd thousand posts. I won't be responding to you anymore.

That's fine with me, perhaps we can get back on topic and give the OP the advice they asked for now.

[selmahoose]

Dementia care should obviously be included in NHS services. But there probably isn't enough NHS funding to pay for it.

But don't worry, according to our next prime minister after Brexit there's an extra £350,000,000 a week to spend on NHS services.

That should cover it!

[markcoznottz]

WinstonWolf said:

Integroo said:

WinstonWolf said:

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

I am not shocked you have 70 odd thousand posts. I won't be responding to you anymore.

That's fine with me, perhaps we can get back on topic and give the OP the advice they asked for now.

Another nickgnome or countdown, you will never ever get an agreement or respect from him, he HAS to be right, because he thinks he has the higher moral ground.

[WinstonWolf]

markcoznottz said:

WinstonWolf said:

Integroo said:

WinstonWolf said:

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

I am not shocked you have 70 odd thousand posts. I won't be responding to you anymore.

That's fine with me, perhaps we can get back on topic and give the OP the advice they asked for now.

Another nickgnome or countdown, you will never ever get an agreement or respect from him, he HAS to be right, because he thinks he has the higher moral ground.

Hopefully the OP will get the advice they asked for now. I notice in another thread someone's care cost is coming in at £200K per annum. People simply can't fund that, it's why we have the NHS.

[Integroo]

markcoznottz said:

Another nickgnome or countdown, you will never ever get an agreement or respect from him, he HAS to be right, because he thinks he has the higher moral ground.

The hypocrisy is startling. You will never agree with me, and you are the one who chucks around slurs like marxist and commie rather than defending your intellectually confused position.

[Countdown]

markcoznottz said:

WinstonWolf said:

Integroo said:

WinstonWolf said:

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

I am not shocked you have 70 odd thousand posts. I won't be responding to you anymore.

That's fine with me, perhaps we can get back on topic and give the OP the advice they asked for now.

Another nickgnome or countdown, you will never ever get an agreement or respect from him, he HAS to be right, because he thinks he has the higher moral ground.

To be fair, it's hard to agree with someone who's talking rubbish.

Your posts must have been the first time in PH history where somebody suggesting that people pay for their own care (rather than the taxpayer/State/everybody else) is considered a Communist/Marxist.

I think it's immoral to sponge off the State. YMMV

[markcoznottz]

WinstonWolf said:

markcoznottz said:

WinstonWolf said:

Integroo said:

WinstonWolf said:

Then you'll know they would die or cause harm to those around them if they weren't in there.

I am not shocked you have 70 odd thousand posts. I won't be responding to you anymore.

That's fine with me, perhaps we can get back on topic and give the OP the advice they asked for now.

Another nickgnome or countdown, you will never ever get an agreement or respect from him, he HAS to be right, because he thinks he has the higher moral ground.

Hopefully the OP will get the advice they asked for now. I notice in another thread someone's care cost is coming in at £200K per annum. People simply can't fund that, it's why we have the NHS.

Yep, if we need to put up taxes then so be it. It's quite obvious it has become a platform for left people to hate anyone who has benefited from house price inflation. As a seoerate issue If we have to adjust inheritance tax then let's have an honest debate about that. People in general respect that tax has to be paid, but they want to hang on to what they have accrued in life, what's rightfully theirs, can you blame them.

[phumy]

plasticpig said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Visiting a care home with a wing full of dementia sufferers is a very persuasive argument for assisted suicide. I would rather top myself than potentially living like that for several years.

I visit my wife, who has Dementia, in her care home regularly and i can agree with plastic on this one.

[Countdown]

markcoznottz said:

Yep, if we need to put up taxes then so be it.

No. I don't think taxpayers should have to fund the costs of care if the person has assets they can use to pay for their own care.

markcoznottz said:

It's quite obvious it has become a platform for left people to hate anyone who has benefited from house price inflation. As a seoerate issue If we have to adjust inheritance tax then let's have an honest debate about that. People in general respect that tax has to be paid, but they want to hang on to what they have accrued in life, what's rightfully theirs, can you blame them.

Why is IHT different to any other tax? As well as "hanging on to what Ive accrued over life" I'd also like to "hang on" to what I accrued last month.

And just to point out, the "person who accrued it over his or her life" isn't the one who suffers financially from IHT - it's the people getting the inheritance. Possibly the same types who are happy to stick mum and dad in a LA care home as long as their inheritance is safe.

Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 15th May 12:53

[covmutley]

markcoznottz said:

Agreed. Or live in Scotland. Care is just one more excuse to tax people who have paid more tax than any group in living history, plus ni. .

Hang on, so you are also now saying that you shouldn't have to pay for it, or pay for it through taxes!

Please tell me how it would be paid for then? Do you think it is 'free'? You seem to nkw be on Corbyns level of economic understanding.

[phumy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Dementia is a disease that wastes the brain over time and that creeps up on the sufferes for maybe 5 to 10 years before it actually shows itself and by then its far to late to treat and fix as its set in. A stoke is none of that and its not a disease.

[Oakey]

covmutley said:

Hang on, so you are also now saying that you shouldn't have to pay for it, or pay for it through taxes!

Please tell me how it would be paid for then? Do you think it is 'free'? You seem to nkw be on Corbyns level of economic understanding.

No no, he said he's happy for taxes to go up to pay for it whilst at the same time complaining about being taxed more than anyone else in history.

[markcoznottz]

Countdown said:

markcoznottz said:

Yep, if we need to put up taxes then so be it.

No. I don't think taxpayers should have to fund the costs of care if the person has assets they can use to pay for their own care.

markcoznottz said:

It's quite obvious it has become a platform for left people to hate anyone who has benefited from house price inflation. As a seoerate issue If we have to adjust inheritance tax then let's have an honest debate about that. People in general respect that tax has to be paid, but they want to hang on to what they have accrued in life, what's rightfully theirs, can you blame them.

Why is IHT different to any other tax? As well as "hanging on to what Ive accrued over life" I'd also like to "hang on" to what I accrued last month.

And just to point out, the "person who accrued it over his or her life" isn't the one who suffers financially from IHT - it's the people getting the inheritance. Possibly the same types who are happy to stick mum and dad in a LA care home as long as their inheritance is safe.

Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 15th May 12:53

Because income is taxed either paye or self assessment etc. Someone's assets, i.e. thier net worth has already been taxed numerous times. They effectively 'own' what they legally have accrued. If the estate incurs IHT it is paid, these people have done thier bit. They have fully complied with tax law.

[Integroo]

markcoznottz said:

Because income is taxed either paye or self assessment etc. Someone's assets, i.e. thier net worth has already been taxed numerous times. They effectively 'own' what they legally have accrued. If the estate incurs IHT it is paid, these people have done thier bit. They have fully complied with tax law.

People have to buy lots of things with their taxed income - food, clothes, cars, rent, mortgage. Paying for their end of life care when they are past the point of no return is no different.

Edited by Integroo on Wednesday 15th May 15:20

[SpeckledJim]

markcoznottz said:

Because income is taxed either paye or self assessment etc. Someone's assets, i.e. thier net worth has already been taxed numerous times. They effectively 'own' what they legally have accrued. If the estate incurs IHT it is paid, these people have done thier bit. They have fully complied with tax law.

Are you as cross about Council Tax (a blatant leftie asset grab!!!111) based on the value of your house as you are about paying for your own care?

It's the same, isn't it?

Little money, little house, little care costs, little council tax

Lots of money, big house, lots of care costs, lots of council tax.

[Countdown]

markcoznottz said:

Because income is taxed either paye or self assessment etc. Someone's assets, i.e. thier net worth has already been taxed numerous times. They effectively 'own' what they legally have accrued. If the estate incurs IHT it is paid, these people have done thier bit. They have fully complied with tax law.

Lots of things are taxed twice, or even three times whereas the increase in the value of somebody's home (usually the biggest part of their estate) doesn't get taxed at all whilst they're alive.

FWIW I'm reasonably sure that the type of people who try to avoid paying care home fees would also be the type who try to avoid paying IHT

[markcoznottz]

Countdown said:

markcoznottz said:

Because income is taxed either paye or self assessment etc. Someone's assets, i.e. thier net worth has already been taxed numerous times. They effectively 'own' what they legally have accrued. If the estate incurs IHT it is paid, these people have done thier bit. They have fully complied with tax law.

Lots of things are taxed twice, or even three times whereas the increase in the value of somebody's home (usually the biggest part of their estate) doesn't get taxed at all whilst they're alive.

FWIW I'm reasonably sure that the type of people who try to avoid paying care home fees would also be the type who try to avoid paying IHT

According to the ons,

'As a consequence, the Government’s revenues from IHT are predicted to grow in an almost linear fashion. Where is this growth likely to come from? Hands up those with estates worth over £1 million. According to HMRC, they already pay around three times as much IHT in total as all the estates worth under a million pounds, up from twice as much in 2009'


Can't see much IHT avoidance there. Why would the increase in an asset be taxed? Presumably to keep you in work. By the way, you being a professional, you would know that tax avoidance isn't illegal.

[Integroo]

markcoznottz said:

Lots of things are taxed twice, or even three times whereas the increase in the value of somebody's home (usually the biggest part of their estate) doesn't get taxed at all whilst they're alive.

FWIW I'm reasonably sure that the type of people who try to avoid paying care home fees would also be the type who try to avoid paying IHT

According to the ons,

'As a consequence, the Government’s revenues from IHT are predicted to grow in an almost linear fashion. Where is this growth likely to come from? Hands up those with estates worth over £1 million. According to HMRC, they already pay around three times as much IHT in total as all the estates worth under a million pounds, up from twice as much in 2009'


Can't see much IHT avoidance there. Why would the increase in an asset be taxed? Presumably to keep you in work. By the way, you being a professional, you would know that tax avoidance isn't illegal.

Shock horror, those with large estates pay a lot more inheritance tax. That statement does not suggest inheritance tax is not avoided, not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.