State Pension potential shortfall warning
Discussion
LeadFarmer said:
Drumroll said:
So basically you have nothing?
All the time you have spent replying on here you could have simply supplied a link.
Surely can't be that hard?
Even if we believe you how do we do something about it? Again a link would help.
Life doesn’t always revolve around links. Sometimes information exists outside of the internet, in the ‘real’ world. All the time you have spent replying on here you could have simply supplied a link.
Surely can't be that hard?
Even if we believe you how do we do something about it? Again a link would help.
In this case, I’ve spoken to people face to face in the real world outside of the web. Some whom have retired before 67 and started receiving their occupational pension and then discovered they won’t qualify for the full state pension, being about £20/week short. They are lucky to have found out in time so they can buy back the missing years of NI at a cost of about £780 for each missing year.
If you are remaining in work and paying your NI right up to when you apply to receive your state pension then you may be ok, but not if you retire early and don’t continue to pay NI.
How do you do something about it you ask? I’ve already told you. You need to phone the help line on the gov.uk website and find out for yourself as ‘they’ won’t contact you to tell you. It’s onky from some people realising at the last minute that I’ve become aware of this.
‘Even if we believe you how do we do something about it’ you ask........I’ve already answered that one. PHONE THEM AND CHECK.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Thursday 2nd January 18:46
Edited by LeadFarmer on Thursday 2nd January 18:46
Your assertion that none of what you are claiming is on the web, just gives your opening statement even less credibility.
Got to say, I'm 55, and I was on the phone to HMRC and Pension Service regarding my current SA, my past and future NI records and my estimated State Pension recently, and none of them raised this issue.
OP I thought you'd just got confused with an incomplete NI record and the requirement to continue paying NI to make the full SP qualifying record complete.
OP I thought you'd just got confused with an incomplete NI record and the requirement to continue paying NI to make the full SP qualifying record complete.
I have a year that is not full “You did not make any contributions this year” but it is the year I did a PGCE ie full time education to become a teacher. Should this have been recorded as such? It is too long ago now to “pay for this year” but what if I can prove I was in full time post graduate education? Anyone know?
I will be well over 35 years by the time I stop, but it annoys me.
Edit,
also I have “28 years of full contributions”. Yet “Forecast if you contribute another 9 years before 5 April 2038
£168.60 a week”
So 28+9=37
Why have I got to have 37 full years of contributions and not 35?
I will be well over 35 years by the time I stop, but it annoys me.
Edit,
also I have “28 years of full contributions”. Yet “Forecast if you contribute another 9 years before 5 April 2038
£168.60 a week”
So 28+9=37
Why have I got to have 37 full years of contributions and not 35?
Edited by CoolHands on Thursday 2nd January 20:09
I'm not entering into the specific claim by the OP, but in principle I agree with his general advice, namely do not rely on the website, speak to the people concerning your specific circumstances. Even then you may not get the full picture.
I have 42 full years of contributions, and despite being told over the phone several times that there was no issue I would get the full pension that isn't true. Now in my case it was due to a long period of contracting out, fair enough, sort of. They couldn't explain how they arrived at the size of the deduction which meant that I fall into the safety net of the old version of the pension paying more than the new one. This reduced old pension figure is what I get. Just as a rider, they said I could contribute to get the pension up, but then about faced and said it was too late. Arse and elbow springs to mind.
The Mrs has 39 full contribution years, again according HMRC no need to do anything. Pension office says pension reduced, there are 3 years where opted out, and some years additional to the 39 where not enough contributions made to count as a full contribution year. Too late to contribute to most of them, more than 6 years back. She could contribute some years at the 740 iirc rate, but the extra she would get doesn't make too much sense. Again she had been told several times on the phone don't worry you will definitely get the full pension. Again arse and elbow.
To be fair because we made other additional arrangements long time ago, occupational schemes plus private pensions we've got a good carry on financially. So practically speaking it's not a money worry for us, others though.
In my admittedly controversial opinion although something needed to be done about pensions, e.g. different treatment men and women to be sorted, increase pension age, deal with all the multiple confusing schemes, the way it has been handled, and in particular the confusing and misleading advice plus the abysmally poor implementation is as bad as some of the mis-selling scandals.
TL:DR don't just rely on Gov't pension website records and predictions, call up, ask for explanations, take independent advice, save like feck. IMVHO.
I have 42 full years of contributions, and despite being told over the phone several times that there was no issue I would get the full pension that isn't true. Now in my case it was due to a long period of contracting out, fair enough, sort of. They couldn't explain how they arrived at the size of the deduction which meant that I fall into the safety net of the old version of the pension paying more than the new one. This reduced old pension figure is what I get. Just as a rider, they said I could contribute to get the pension up, but then about faced and said it was too late. Arse and elbow springs to mind.
The Mrs has 39 full contribution years, again according HMRC no need to do anything. Pension office says pension reduced, there are 3 years where opted out, and some years additional to the 39 where not enough contributions made to count as a full contribution year. Too late to contribute to most of them, more than 6 years back. She could contribute some years at the 740 iirc rate, but the extra she would get doesn't make too much sense. Again she had been told several times on the phone don't worry you will definitely get the full pension. Again arse and elbow.
To be fair because we made other additional arrangements long time ago, occupational schemes plus private pensions we've got a good carry on financially. So practically speaking it's not a money worry for us, others though.
In my admittedly controversial opinion although something needed to be done about pensions, e.g. different treatment men and women to be sorted, increase pension age, deal with all the multiple confusing schemes, the way it has been handled, and in particular the confusing and misleading advice plus the abysmally poor implementation is as bad as some of the mis-selling scandals.
TL:DR don't just rely on Gov't pension website records and predictions, call up, ask for explanations, take independent advice, save like feck. IMVHO.
LeadFarmer said:
Life doesn’t always revolve around links. Sometimes information exists outside of the internet, in the ‘real’ world.
In this case, I’ve spoken to people face to face in the real world outside of the web. Some whom have retired before 67 and started receiving their occupational pension and then discovered they won’t qualify for the full state pension, being about £20/week short. They are lucky to have found out in time so they can buy back the missing years of NI at a cost of about £780 for each missing year.
If you are remaining in work and paying your NI right up to when you apply to receive your state pension then you may be ok, but not if you retire early and don’t continue to pay NI.
How do you do something about it you ask? I’ve already told you. You need to phone the help line on the gov.uk website and find out for yourself as ‘they’ won’t contact you to tell you. It’s onky from some people realising at the last minute that I’ve become aware of this.
‘Even if we believe you how do we do something about it’ you ask........I’ve already answered that one. PHONE THEM AND CHECK.
But you're confusing two issues.In this case, I’ve spoken to people face to face in the real world outside of the web. Some whom have retired before 67 and started receiving their occupational pension and then discovered they won’t qualify for the full state pension, being about £20/week short. They are lucky to have found out in time so they can buy back the missing years of NI at a cost of about £780 for each missing year.
If you are remaining in work and paying your NI right up to when you apply to receive your state pension then you may be ok, but not if you retire early and don’t continue to pay NI.
How do you do something about it you ask? I’ve already told you. You need to phone the help line on the gov.uk website and find out for yourself as ‘they’ won’t contact you to tell you. It’s onky from some people realising at the last minute that I’ve become aware of this.
‘Even if we believe you how do we do something about it’ you ask........I’ve already answered that one. PHONE THEM AND CHECK.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Thursday 2nd January 18:46
Edited by LeadFarmer on Thursday 2nd January 18:46
The issue you are describing is nothing to do with retiring early.
It's to do with being contracted out of SERPS for a period in the past.
Whether you retire at 53 or 67 - if you've got 35 or more years full contributions and no contracted out employment then you will get the full pension.
If you HAVE some contracted out employment then you may receive less than a full state pension but you will be additionally receiving an amount (COPE) from your non state pension that was accrued as a result of the contracted out NI contributions. The government pension forecast will show what they calculate this COPE amount is. This is information only - it is not deducted from your pension forecast.
If the forecast shows that you will not reach a full pension due to contracting out then if you have some gaps in your contribution record from 2016 onwards you may be able to make additional NI contributions.
Despite what some may say, there is a lot on the internet about this and some of it is quite complex but two of the more straightforward guides are;
https://www.royallondon.com/contentassets/8c6335d8...
https://www.royallondon.com/siteassets/site-docs/m...
One thing I agree with the O/P on is to verify everything you see on the GOV website. They can and do get it wrong.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well for a start, it may assume you will remain in employment and paying NI until aged 67, when infact you may decide to retire earlier on a private pension. This is particularly relevant if you've been opted out for a period.Having 35 yrs NI contributions and a statement saying your getting the full amount of state pension, say £168 or whatever the amount is, isn't set in stone if your personal circumstances dictate otherwise.
Fastpedeller said:
How will 'phoning them clarify matters if they keep "moving the goalposts". I have a printed statement saying I've 35+ years of payment and qualify for full basic - Are they about to refute that?
They may not be allowing for any contracted out period you've had. They may issue your going to stay in employment until 67. Your 35+ years will certainly qualify you for the state pension, but might not guarantee you getting the full amount.LeadFarmer said:
They may not be allowing for any contracted out period you've had. They may issue your going to stay in employment until 67. Your 35+ years will certainly qualify you for the state pension, but might not guarantee you getting the full amount.
You are mixing two things up.You get the state pension in full if you have the required NI contributions.
You get the additional top up pension depending on if you contracted out or not.
Both are part of the state pension system, only the top up part is affected outside the NI 35 year full year payments.
jsf said:
You are mixing two things up.
You get the state pension in full if you have the required NI contributions.
You get the additional top up pension depending on if you contracted out or not.
Both are part of the state pension system, only the top up part is affected outside the NI 35 year full year payments.
ummm not sure you are correct. Even if you were contracted in there is no longer any additional top up for those reaching retirement age after 2016You get the state pension in full if you have the required NI contributions.
You get the additional top up pension depending on if you contracted out or not.
Both are part of the state pension system, only the top up part is affected outside the NI 35 year full year payments.
https://www.gov.uk/additional-state-pension/eligib...
https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension
Drumroll said:
Your assertion that none of what you are claiming is on the web, just gives your opening statement even less credibility.
You don't get it do you, Im not seeking credibility from you or anyone else, you can choose for yourself to research the problem, or not. Im not seeking anything other than making people aware of a potential issue. As for you demanding a 'link' to proof, why must everything be proved with a link????I could post a link to an online discussion I had with a retired public sector worker who discovered that whilst his government online pension statement said he had enough qualifying years of NI, and that he didn't need to do anything further to receive the full state pension, he went on to discover that due to being contracted out he would actually have a £20/week shortfall in his state pension, and therefore he wouldn't receive the full pension, despite what the website said. But I'd have to seek his permission to post what might be regarded as a private/personal conversation. But I don't intend to do that as its not necessary as I'm not seeking credibility from you or anyone else.
Sometimes trying to help others comes back to bite you, as is the case for me here, so I'll probably just leave those who have a genuine interest in the subject to follow my advice and check for themselves, and not take the government pension statement at full value. Those who refuse to take action unless i post a 'link' may have a nasty surprise in store for them in a few years time, due to their own ignorance.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You can pay voluntary NI contributions for each full year from 2016/17 to the year before the one in which you reach state pension age. The cost of a year of voluntary (Class 3) National Insurance is currently about £733 per year. One extra year of National Insurance adds 1/35th of the full pension rate of £155.65 to your entitlement. This is about £4.45 per week or £231 per year.
In other words, a one-off lump sum of £733 would buy you an increased pension of £231 per year at state pension age for the whole of your retirement.
How does that sound?
LeadFarmer said:
You don't get it do you, Im not seeking credibility from you or anyone else, you can choose for yourself to research the problem, or not. Im not seeking anything other than making people aware of a potential issue. As for you demanding a 'link' to proof, why must everything be proved with a link????
I could post a link to an online discussion I had with a retired public sector worker who discovered that whilst his government online pension statement said he had enough qualifying years of NI, and that he didn't need to do anything further to receive the full state pension, he went on to discover that due to being contracted out he would actually have a £20/week shortfall in his state pension, and therefore he wouldn't receive the full pension, despite what the website said. But I'd have to seek his permission to post what might be regarded as a private/personal conversation. But I don't intend to do that as its not necessary as I'm not seeking credibility from you or anyone else.
Sometimes trying to help others comes back to bite you, as is the case for me here, so I'll probably just leave those who have a genuine interest in the subject to follow my advice and check for themselves, and not take the government pension statement at full value. Those who refuse to take action unless i post a 'link' may have a nasty surprise in store for them in a few years time, due to their own ignorance.
You're just making it sound like you have no idea where to find that info, which doesn't make anyone believe you that much.I could post a link to an online discussion I had with a retired public sector worker who discovered that whilst his government online pension statement said he had enough qualifying years of NI, and that he didn't need to do anything further to receive the full state pension, he went on to discover that due to being contracted out he would actually have a £20/week shortfall in his state pension, and therefore he wouldn't receive the full pension, despite what the website said. But I'd have to seek his permission to post what might be regarded as a private/personal conversation. But I don't intend to do that as its not necessary as I'm not seeking credibility from you or anyone else.
Sometimes trying to help others comes back to bite you, as is the case for me here, so I'll probably just leave those who have a genuine interest in the subject to follow my advice and check for themselves, and not take the government pension statement at full value. Those who refuse to take action unless i post a 'link' may have a nasty surprise in store for them in a few years time, due to their own ignorance.
CoolHands said:
No pension age is 19 years off yet, 2038
I had a look at my wife's record.She has 35 years already by 2019. Pension is £146.10
It says "If you contribute another 5 years you will get £168.60"
At face value this seems to say she will have paid 40 years full contributions.
But the screen also shows she has COPE of £41.50
So I think the issue is that you require 35 years on un-contracted out full contributions.
The NI record shows a full years contribution even when contracted out of SERPS.
In my wife's case the number of years to cover the contracted out shortfall is 5
In your case 2 years? This assumes your screen shows a COPE amount.
I'm not 100% certain this is the explanation but it makes some kind of sense.
craig1912 said:
jsf said:
You are mixing two things up.
You get the state pension in full if you have the required NI contributions.
You get the additional top up pension depending on if you contracted out or not.
Both are part of the state pension system, only the top up part is affected outside the NI 35 year full year payments.
ummm not sure you are correct. Even if you were contracted in there is no longer any additional top up for those reaching retirement age after 2016You get the state pension in full if you have the required NI contributions.
You get the additional top up pension depending on if you contracted out or not.
Both are part of the state pension system, only the top up part is affected outside the NI 35 year full year payments.
https://www.gov.uk/additional-state-pension/eligib...
https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension
However, it's not as bad as it first looks, because when they made that change, they upped to basic state pension amount to compensate for the loss of the ASP. This article covers it fairly well. https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirem...
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