Executor and P of A Query
Discussion
My brother and I have a 91 yo aunt in a nursing home past few years due to dementia. She's had good health otherwise but unfortunately she's taken a sudden dip, staff think her end is imminent. We are very sad as she is the last of my father's side and such an amazing lady.
We have experience of funerals and estate management as our parents both died young. The solicitor handled it as neither had Wills.
My aunt has a will it's plain and concise, basically 50/50 between us.
I'm the executor and bro is Power of Attorney. Neither of us have experience in this.
Once the funeral has been paid etc there will be little if anything left in her account. My brother will probably pay for everything from her money.
Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension. No other money or benefits was she ever entitled to as she always worked.
So my question is, as her estate is so small, no longer any property, etc what do we need to do?
Do we still need to engage a solicitor for anything? What would we be paying them for?
My thoughts are my brother pays for funeral as he has access to her money. I as executor contact her pension provider and inform them to cease payments. I register her death etc.
After everything is done we split any money if there's any left 50/50 then close her accounts?
Is it this simple or do I need to make it 'formal' by paying a solicitor? I just don't see the point for something so small and simple but appreciate the experts on the forum providing advice.
Thanks.
We have experience of funerals and estate management as our parents both died young. The solicitor handled it as neither had Wills.
My aunt has a will it's plain and concise, basically 50/50 between us.
I'm the executor and bro is Power of Attorney. Neither of us have experience in this.
Once the funeral has been paid etc there will be little if anything left in her account. My brother will probably pay for everything from her money.
Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension. No other money or benefits was she ever entitled to as she always worked.
So my question is, as her estate is so small, no longer any property, etc what do we need to do?
Do we still need to engage a solicitor for anything? What would we be paying them for?
My thoughts are my brother pays for funeral as he has access to her money. I as executor contact her pension provider and inform them to cease payments. I register her death etc.
After everything is done we split any money if there's any left 50/50 then close her accounts?
Is it this simple or do I need to make it 'formal' by paying a solicitor? I just don't see the point for something so small and simple but appreciate the experts on the forum providing advice.
Thanks.
I've just started looking into this for my Mum who died last week.
Have read a lot and this is a pretty good guide.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/docum...
When my Dad died 8 years ago we engaged a solicitor to take care of everything - We contacted all the accounts my Dad had and presented a comprehensive list to the solicitors - Account numbers , rough amounts, contact numbers and Addresses.
The solicitor quoted us £750 to take care of it as we had already done the hard bit - the rest was just sending letters etc.
Said solicitor presented us with a bill for £2,500 once he'd finished.
I was all for killing him but Mum advised against it.
Doing my Mum's myself and I aint going anywhere near the
s that are solicitors !
Have read a lot and this is a pretty good guide.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/docum...
When my Dad died 8 years ago we engaged a solicitor to take care of everything - We contacted all the accounts my Dad had and presented a comprehensive list to the solicitors - Account numbers , rough amounts, contact numbers and Addresses.
The solicitor quoted us £750 to take care of it as we had already done the hard bit - the rest was just sending letters etc.
Said solicitor presented us with a bill for £2,500 once he'd finished.
I was all for killing him but Mum advised against it.
Doing my Mum's myself and I aint going anywhere near the
s that are solicitors !Hi guys, thanks for the replies. Very sorry to hear if your loss Jasey. That wasn't a good experience with your solicitor either and personally if it was me I'd have made a formal complaint. Either that or just paid the £750 and said sue me for the rest.
Anyway for both occasions with two different solicitors we had an ok experience. The reason I'd rather avoid using them on this occasion is that I don't see the point. The time off work for meetings, phone calls, the expense of it all.
My aunt was intelligent and pragmatic about life. Very organised, she had her will actioned by a solicitor 20+ years ago. She closed her ISAs etc and amalgamated them into one. All to make the admin easier etc.
Thanks for the link Jasey it signposted me to Age NI which has specific to NI info. I think I'll give their helpline a call this week.
Anyway for both occasions with two different solicitors we had an ok experience. The reason I'd rather avoid using them on this occasion is that I don't see the point. The time off work for meetings, phone calls, the expense of it all.
My aunt was intelligent and pragmatic about life. Very organised, she had her will actioned by a solicitor 20+ years ago. She closed her ISAs etc and amalgamated them into one. All to make the admin easier etc.
Thanks for the link Jasey it signposted me to Age NI which has specific to NI info. I think I'll give their helpline a call this week.
Power of attorney ends automatically upon death. You could get one of the books which are a useful guide to dealing with an estate on DIY basis.
"What happens when the donor of an LPA dies?
"The power granted by their LPA automatically ceases. This means that if you have been acting as an Attorney under that LPA, you will no longer have the authority to manage the late donor’s affairs.
"What should you do as an Attorney upon the death of a donor?
"If you are acting as an Attorney under a LPA and the donor of the power dies, you must:
Stop any action under the LPA immediately;
Send the original LPA document and a copy of the donor’s death certificate to the Office of the Public Guardian. This must be done as soon as possible.
"What happens to the donor’s property after their death?
"As mentioned above, the LPA will no longer provide valid authority to deal with the late donor’s property. The idea behind this is that, upon death, all of the late donor’s property, assets, and debts will become their estate."
"What happens when the donor of an LPA dies?
"The power granted by their LPA automatically ceases. This means that if you have been acting as an Attorney under that LPA, you will no longer have the authority to manage the late donor’s affairs.
"What should you do as an Attorney upon the death of a donor?
"If you are acting as an Attorney under a LPA and the donor of the power dies, you must:
Stop any action under the LPA immediately;
Send the original LPA document and a copy of the donor’s death certificate to the Office of the Public Guardian. This must be done as soon as possible.
"What happens to the donor’s property after their death?
"As mentioned above, the LPA will no longer provide valid authority to deal with the late donor’s property. The idea behind this is that, upon death, all of the late donor’s property, assets, and debts will become their estate."
OP, sorry to hear how things are going.
Can’t see any reason to involve (& thus pay!) for a solicitor in your situation.
No confusion over IHT by the sound of things, just a matter of dealing with accounts, closing things down and sharing assets. If you were bitterly hating your sibling, that might put a different slant on things, but sounds straightforward.
Many I’m oversimplifying, but I dealt with my mother’s estate over 25 years ago , & MrsMikeIOW has been dealing with her fathers without need for a solicitor.
Plenty of information available to help you.
Can’t see any reason to involve (& thus pay!) for a solicitor in your situation.
No confusion over IHT by the sound of things, just a matter of dealing with accounts, closing things down and sharing assets. If you were bitterly hating your sibling, that might put a different slant on things, but sounds straightforward.
Many I’m oversimplifying, but I dealt with my mother’s estate over 25 years ago , & MrsMikeIOW has been dealing with her fathers without need for a solicitor.
Plenty of information available to help you.
Wow thanks for all the replies. Firstly I didn't know the LPA terminated on my aunt's death. Secondly my bro and I get well.
So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?
I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.
If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?
BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.
Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.
So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?
I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.
If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?
BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.
Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.
Banks will normally release funds specifically for funeral costs almost immediately once told of a person’s passing.
They’ll probably ask for a copy of the death certificate (sometimes just the certificate number will suffice) and an written quote from the funeral home and then money is straight into your account.
Also tell the government once death is registered via the ‘tell us once’ service,
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
Pretty handy as they’ll with pensions, etc in one go saving you a few jobs.
They’ll probably ask for a copy of the death certificate (sometimes just the certificate number will suffice) and an written quote from the funeral home and then money is straight into your account.
Also tell the government once death is registered via the ‘tell us once’ service,
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
Pretty handy as they’ll with pensions, etc in one go saving you a few jobs.
Edited by valiant on Sunday 26th January 12:37
MercedesClassic said:
Wow thanks for all the replies. Firstly I didn't know the LPA terminated on my aunt's death. Secondly my bro and I get well.
So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?
I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.
If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?
BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.
Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.
Somewhere in all this, it's usual that you have to have the Will 'proved' - i.e that means to have it certified as the *Last* Will and Testament. This is usually a part of the Probate process and, I believe, may just require a declaration from you and your brother. As you may appreciate, in estates where there may be a lot of property, or savings, involved this can sometimes be an important issue, particularly if the deceased was known to have changed their will from time to time. From what you say, it sounds like the estate is quite small and some of these formalities may not therefore be necessary.So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?
I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.
If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?
BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.
Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.
It doesn't really matter whether you or your brother pay for any part of the funeral process as long as each of you keep an accurate account of where expenses have been incurred, so that they can be reclaimed from the estate before it is split up.
[quote=valiant]Banks will normally release funds specifically for funeral costs almost immediately once told of a person’s passing.
They’ll probably ask for a copy of the death certificate (sometimes just the certificate number will suffice) and an written quote from the funeral home and then money is straight into your account.
Also tell the government once death is registered via the ‘tell us once’ service,
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
Pretty handy as they’ll with pensions, etc in one go saving you a few jobs.
Thanks that's good to know and the one-step method will be very useful.
They’ll probably ask for a copy of the death certificate (sometimes just the certificate number will suffice) and an written quote from the funeral home and then money is straight into your account.
Also tell the government once death is registered via the ‘tell us once’ service,
https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/organisations-you...
Pretty handy as they’ll with pensions, etc in one go saving you a few jobs.
Edited by valiant on Sunday 26th January 12:37
[/quoteThanks that's good to know and the one-step method will be very useful.
Robertj21a said:
MercedesClassic said:
Wow thanks for all the replies. Firstly I didn't know the LPA terminated on my aunt's death. Secondly my bro and I get well.
So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?
I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.
If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?
BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.
Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.
Somewhere in all this, it's usual that you have to have the Will 'proved' - i.e that means to have it certified as the *Last* Will and Testament. This is usually a part of the Probate process and, I believe, may just require a declaration from you and your brother. As you may appreciate, in estates where there may be a lot of property, or savings, involved this can sometimes be an important issue, particularly if the deceased was known to have changed their will from time to time. From what you say, it sounds like the estate is quite small and some of these formalities may not therefore be necessary.So basically we would pay for the funeral then get it back when the funds are split 50/50?
I as executor:
- pay for funeral prior to above
- register death, contact her previous employer and advise them she's died stop payments, back pay anything any pension they've overpaid etc.
- contact her bank, furnish them with what info they need to close account, transfer the funds to me, I transfer half to my bro.
- clear out her room in nursing home.
If it's all it is that seems straightforward enough but am I missing anything?
BTW in Northern Ireland funerals are usually third day after death so it's all a bit of rush so I'm keen to be prepared and talk to my brother about. Aunt's will states her funeral preferences and we have agreed on the after burial hospitality venue so that's destressed the thing somewhat.
Thanks everyone and have a lovely Sunday.
It doesn't really matter whether you or your brother pay for any part of the funeral process as long as each of you keep an accurate account of where expenses have been incurred, so that they can be reclaimed from the estate before it is split up.
MercedesClassic said:
Once the funeral has been paid etc there will be little if anything left in her account.
.........
Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension.
I wonder if your reference points are a bit off here - if her pension (plus state pension) is prettty well meeting her care home costs then it's going to a bit more than 'modest' by most people's definition. It's unlikely, but there might be lump sum payable from the pension on death..........
Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension.
I went through dealing with my Mum's estate a couple of years ago, and she was in care but she did did have a chunky sum in the bank so there we had to do probate. Check on this, but I think if there's less than £15K and no property etc then you don't need probate, however banks set their own limits and may demand probate even for lesser amounts.
From recent experience, "tell us once" doesn't yet cover all government authorities who might need to know, so it would be worth checking according to your aunt's specific circumstances. For example, late FIL was a teacher and teacher's national and local pension schemes were outside (2017 but may have changed since)
in my experience the best thing to do is don't worry about it too much just yet!
When you need to, sort the death cert and the funeral then contact the banks, pension etc to see what is what. Then you can decide whether you need probate or not.
Although LPA officially stops on death I suspect your brother will still have access to her bank account so can pay funeral expenses etc if necessary. Just make sure he keeps a proper account of what he does. Oh, and don't tell the bank about the death until you no longer need to draw on the account
That last bit might be frowned on by some but to precis a conversation I had with my fathers bank....
Me: My father died recently, I am one of his executors, what do I need to do to sort out his accounts?
Them: Do you want to close the accounts now?
Me: I'd rather not, I am still using them to pay expenses for the estate. (I had his internet banking details)
Them: No problem, let us know when you are ready and we will sort it all out.
And that was without having an active LPA in place!
When I did close the accounts they gave me around £30,000 with me just providing a copy of the will (no probate at that point), a copy of the death certificate and my driving licence as ID. I have to admit I was surprised it was so easy......
When you need to, sort the death cert and the funeral then contact the banks, pension etc to see what is what. Then you can decide whether you need probate or not.
Although LPA officially stops on death I suspect your brother will still have access to her bank account so can pay funeral expenses etc if necessary. Just make sure he keeps a proper account of what he does. Oh, and don't tell the bank about the death until you no longer need to draw on the account
That last bit might be frowned on by some but to precis a conversation I had with my fathers bank....
Me: My father died recently, I am one of his executors, what do I need to do to sort out his accounts?
Them: Do you want to close the accounts now?
Me: I'd rather not, I am still using them to pay expenses for the estate. (I had his internet banking details)
Them: No problem, let us know when you are ready and we will sort it all out.
And that was without having an active LPA in place!
When I did close the accounts they gave me around £30,000 with me just providing a copy of the will (no probate at that point), a copy of the death certificate and my driving licence as ID. I have to admit I was surprised it was so easy......
brman said:
in my experience the best thing to do is don't worry about it too much just yet!
When you need to, sort the death cert and the funeral then contact the banks, pension etc to see what is what. Then you can decide whether you need probate or not.
Although LPA officially stops on death I suspect your brother will still have access to her bank account so can pay funeral expenses etc if necessary. Just make sure he keeps a proper account of what he does. Oh, and don't tell the bank about the death until you no longer need to draw on the account
That last bit might be frowned on by some but to precis a conversation I had with my fathers bank....
Me: My father died recently, I am one of his executors, what do I need to do to sort out his accounts?
Them: Do you want to close the accounts now?
Me: I'd rather not, I am still using them to pay expenses for the estate. (I had his internet banking details)
Them: No problem, let us know when you are ready and we will sort it all out.
And that was without having an active LPA in place!
When I did close the accounts they gave me around £30,000 with me just providing a copy of the will (no probate at that point), a copy of the death certificate and my driving licence as ID. I have to admit I was surprised it was so easy......
Either there's a bit of that story missing or the bank has probably acted illegally.When you need to, sort the death cert and the funeral then contact the banks, pension etc to see what is what. Then you can decide whether you need probate or not.
Although LPA officially stops on death I suspect your brother will still have access to her bank account so can pay funeral expenses etc if necessary. Just make sure he keeps a proper account of what he does. Oh, and don't tell the bank about the death until you no longer need to draw on the account
That last bit might be frowned on by some but to precis a conversation I had with my fathers bank....
Me: My father died recently, I am one of his executors, what do I need to do to sort out his accounts?
Them: Do you want to close the accounts now?
Me: I'd rather not, I am still using them to pay expenses for the estate. (I had his internet banking details)
Them: No problem, let us know when you are ready and we will sort it all out.
And that was without having an active LPA in place!
When I did close the accounts they gave me around £30,000 with me just providing a copy of the will (no probate at that point), a copy of the death certificate and my driving licence as ID. I have to admit I was surprised it was so easy......
Robertj21a said:
Either there's a bit of that story missing or the bank has probably acted illegally.
Don't know about the law but certainly I've done this twice and the accounts were frozen the moment I told the bank. My mum owed the care home about £6K (she paid fortnightly by cheque and had been too ill to pay, and then in hospital for a few weeks). Bank wouldn't even consider allowing them to be paid.In the other case the bank were even bouncing incoming payments.
Sheepshanks said:
Robertj21a said:
Either there's a bit of that story missing or the bank has probably acted illegally.
Don't know about the law but certainly I've done this twice and the accounts were frozen the moment I told the bank. My mum owed the care home about £6K (she paid fortnightly by cheque and had been too ill to pay, and then in hospital for a few weeks). Bank wouldn't even consider allowing them to be paid.In the other case the bank were even bouncing incoming payments.
Sheepshanks said:
MercedesClassic said:
Once the funeral has been paid etc there will be little if anything left in her account.
.........
Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension.
I wonder if your reference points are a bit off here - if her pension (plus state pension) is prettty well meeting her care home costs then it's going to a bit more than 'modest' by most people's definition. It's unlikely, but there might be lump sum payable from the pension on death..........
Currently her care home costs are mostly met by her modest pension.
I went through dealing with my Mum's estate a couple of years ago, and she was in care but she did did have a chunky sum in the bank so there we had to do probate. Check on this, but I think if there's less than £15K and no property etc then you don't need probate, however banks set their own limits and may demand probate even for lesser amounts.
Therefore she's to pay for absolutely everything herself out of her savings which over 5 years have depleted well below any probate level. In fact we chip in and pay for things too occasionally.
Always used to grind her gears that because she worked from 14-60, never had kids, bad health nor lied she got nothing because her and her husband paid into a pension which is only £400ish a month!
Anyway that's another story altogether.
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