"Safe" investment, maybe gold?
Discussion
Central Banks Turn to Gold as Losses Mount
https://mises.org/wire/central-banks-turn-gold-los...
https://wallstreetwindow.com/2023/01/central-banks...
https://mises.org/wire/central-banks-turn-gold-los...
https://wallstreetwindow.com/2023/01/central-banks...
article said:
In 2022, central banks will have purchased the largest amount of gold in recent history. According to the World Gold Council, central bank purchases of gold have reached a level not seen since 1967. The world’s central banks bought 673 metric tons in one month, and in the third quarter, the figure reached 400 metric tons. This is interesting because the flow from central banks since 2020 had been eminently net sales.
RSTurboPaul said:
Central Banks Turn to Gold as Losses Mount
https://mises.org/wire/central-banks-turn-gold-los...
https://wallstreetwindow.com/2023/01/central-banks...
Good article and it puts a light on the losses and the false notion that increased interest rates wouldn’t show up in the real world https://mises.org/wire/central-banks-turn-gold-los...
https://wallstreetwindow.com/2023/01/central-banks...
article said:
In 2022, central banks will have purchased the largest amount of gold in recent history. According to the World Gold Council, central bank purchases of gold have reached a level not seen since 1967. The world’s central banks bought 673 metric tons in one month, and in the third quarter, the figure reached 400 metric tons. This is interesting because the flow from central banks since 2020 had been eminently net sales.
Increased interest rates, even if rates come down will have an increasing effect on public sector finances again it’s often quoted that the UK was not at risk due to long dated gilts but clearly not totally true.
As for gold, I reckon China and agents of China are the biggest buyers of gold
ATM said:
I bank with one of the big well known high street banks. I hit some security check system yesterday which meant my account got locked. Today I spoke to them to sort this out. It took around 30 minutes of my life. They gave me a lot of warnings about scams and asked if I was transferring money for crypto or because someone had asked me to. All sorts of madness. I was transferring money to one of these online challenger banks. They asked me how long I had this account and why I was transferring money to this account. Some of these questions border on the - that's none of your business - but I answered in full. Also they asked me for my permission to take an audio print of my voice to use for further phone banking checks. Obviously I agreed. Prior to speaking to someone I had to listen to audio messages warning me that their staff will not put up with any verbal abuse and this may result in my account being closed. This is starting to feel like madness.
Switched to one of the challenger banks. Been using it for a few days. Today tried to make a payment online using my card. It was blocked by their security systems. I asked their customer service staff how to unblock it. The person suggested I try a different merchant. I said no. Then they said we can't help You. Now I am back to the original high street shambles of a bank.
I’ve been with Starling and dumped £££ from crypto recently (via bittylicious).
Thought it might flag something but so far fine.
Also done some oddities with cash at a cash machine and lots of money swizzling across accounts (business to personal to hsbc personal), again all fine.
For now Starling seem to be good.
Only thing I’d be tempted to do for those with customer service concerns is to use HSBC Premier or equivalent as you get a real sensible UK local person with a brain and ability to do tasks themselves there and then… job jobbed.
Thought it might flag something but so far fine.
Also done some oddities with cash at a cash machine and lots of money swizzling across accounts (business to personal to hsbc personal), again all fine.
For now Starling seem to be good.
Only thing I’d be tempted to do for those with customer service concerns is to use HSBC Premier or equivalent as you get a real sensible UK local person with a brain and ability to do tasks themselves there and then… job jobbed.
I got to the bottom of my retail banking drama above but I had to call their helpful staff and go through various checks and different departments. It took over 30 minutes. My point is not that these people are incompetent. Some are hopefully not. The point is that the banks force this onto us. They tell us it is for our own good. It is protecting us. But is it. Or is it for their good. Protecting them. Whenever anyone tries to tranter money they have to go trough 30 minutes of checks. How can fraudster get away with any fraud with these measures in place. The banks will not be out of pocket. But we all spend hours and hours jumping through hoops to perform simple transactions. Or as I found out today some transactions just are not allowed. No explanation given. Well there was an explanation. It was the systems don't work and we offer you no customer service of any kind.
I switched to Handelsbanken last year - I'd sat outside a car dealer for almost an hour waiting for authorisation from an Indian HSBC callcentre who hung up twice and ended up telling me I'd need to call back in working hours if I wanted to spend my money, despite having sought agreement on the Friday before I went out to buy the car.
For £15 a month I get a person on the end of the phone whenever I need with the knowledge, authority and ability to sort my problem out. During working hours it's a person at the local branch (which also has a manager who's actually empowered to make decisions!) and out of hours, it's a callcentre staffed by people in the UK who can action my requests (such as paying for a car, at a dealer, with my own money) immediately and will deal with my branch on my behalf and call back when they said they would. My branch manager has been out twice to my house to see me to discuss my needs.
I'll never go back to 'free' high st. banking.
For £15 a month I get a person on the end of the phone whenever I need with the knowledge, authority and ability to sort my problem out. During working hours it's a person at the local branch (which also has a manager who's actually empowered to make decisions!) and out of hours, it's a callcentre staffed by people in the UK who can action my requests (such as paying for a car, at a dealer, with my own money) immediately and will deal with my branch on my behalf and call back when they said they would. My branch manager has been out twice to my house to see me to discuss my needs.
I'll never go back to 'free' high st. banking.
All reminds me of that crazy story that the banks now being owned mostly by Govts are going to be allowed to crash in order to reset 'the system', get us off the $$,, offset all Govt debt and we'll all lose our money and end up with Govt controlled currency but it won't affect house prices! I'll try to find it...
However, I went to BoS yesterday and tried to change a £20 for a £10 and 10 x £1 coins. Simple? No. Do you have an account sir? No, I just want to change a £20. Sorry, it has to be paid to an account then taken out as the change you want.
ETA: Here it is: https://www.lettingfocus.com/blogs/2022/01/the-gre...
However, I went to BoS yesterday and tried to change a £20 for a £10 and 10 x £1 coins. Simple? No. Do you have an account sir? No, I just want to change a £20. Sorry, it has to be paid to an account then taken out as the change you want.
ETA: Here it is: https://www.lettingfocus.com/blogs/2022/01/the-gre...
Edited by jshell on Friday 3rd February 11:08
jshell said:
robscot said:
jshell said:
Do you have an account sir? No
.pingu393 said:
jshell said:
robscot said:
jshell said:
Do you have an account sir? No
.You have a twenty pound note 'outside the system' (i.e. as cash in your hand rather than an electronic representation of it on your bank account).
You swap it for another twenty pound note from a bank / a shop / a pub / a mate.
You still have a twenty pound note 'outside the system'.
At no point does it enter an electronic ledger and/or become somehow more 'legit' (in terms of any understanding of its provenance, legal or not) so how exactly is it 'money laundering'?
Because the owner can say 'I got this one from a bank clerk after giving them a different one'?
If anything, paying it in to an electronic format and then withdrawing it in a different, physical format is an effective method in terms of 'money laundering' - except, of course, that this method means your transactions can be monitored and tracked...
RSTurboPaul said:
pingu393 said:
jshell said:
robscot said:
jshell said:
Do you have an account sir? No
.You have a twenty pound note 'outside the system' (i.e. as cash in your hand rather than an electronic representation of it on your bank account).
You swap it for another twenty pound note from a bank / a shop / a pub / a mate.
You still have a twenty pound note 'outside the system'.
At no point does it enter an electronic ledger and/or become somehow more 'legit' (in terms of any understanding of its provenance, legal or not) so how exactly is it 'money laundering'?
Because the owner can say 'I got this one from a bank clerk after giving them a different one'?
If anything, paying it in to an electronic format and then withdrawing it in a different, physical format is an effective method in terms of 'money laundering' - except, of course, that this method means your transactions can be monitored and tracked...
By insisting that the money is put into an account first, then withdrawn, there is a money trail. Nothing to worry about if you have nothing to be worried about. A different story if your £20 is just your first £20 of the day and there are another twenty banks to visit that day.
pingu393 said:
RSTurboPaul said:
pingu393 said:
jshell said:
robscot said:
jshell said:
Do you have an account sir? No
.You have a twenty pound note 'outside the system' (i.e. as cash in your hand rather than an electronic representation of it on your bank account).
You swap it for another twenty pound note from a bank / a shop / a pub / a mate.
You still have a twenty pound note 'outside the system'.
At no point does it enter an electronic ledger and/or become somehow more 'legit' (in terms of any understanding of its provenance, legal or not) so how exactly is it 'money laundering'?
Because the owner can say 'I got this one from a bank clerk after giving them a different one'?
If anything, paying it in to an electronic format and then withdrawing it in a different, physical format is an effective method in terms of 'money laundering' - except, of course, that this method means your transactions can be monitored and tracked...
By insisting that the money is put into an account first, then withdrawn, there is a money trail. Nothing to worry about if you have nothing to be worried about. A different story if your £20 is just your first £20 of the day and there are another twenty banks to visit that day.
That seems... a somewhat uncommon scenario.
It also appears to suggest that each bank is checking (and recording?) each serial number on each note during each cash transaction across each day... which seems unlikely? Or is that electronic table tracking bank note usage across the world in one of the James Bond films an actual thing?? lol
EmBe said:
It also presupposes (going bak to the original post) tha someone with money to launder is going to do it by changing one £20 note into pound coins, one bank at a time.
Which seems rather.....time consuming.
It's a "catch-all" policy. It would equally apply to "can I change £1 into 10ps" as it would to "can you split these five £50s"Which seems rather.....time consuming.
Nobody is interested in the guy splitting the £1, but they want to be able to trace the guy with the five £50s if they need to. By "they" i don't mean the bank.
pingu393 said:
EmBe said:
It also presupposes (going bak to the original post) tha someone with money to launder is going to do it by changing one £20 note into pound coins, one bank at a time.
Which seems rather.....time consuming.
It's a "catch-all" policy. It would equally apply to "can I change £1 into 10ps" as it would to "can you split these five £50s"Which seems rather.....time consuming.
Nobody is interested in the guy splitting the £1, but they want to be able to trace the guy with the five £50s if they need to. By "they" i don't mean the bank.
TLDR on recent shenanigans.
Shtf again.
Banks get bailed out. Profits are kept because “pensions, jobs, systemic risk” at the cost to society generally.
No consideration is made to the idea of letting things fail and propping them up when it actually impacts normal people’s jobs and pensions.
Gold is suppressed as it always is. Recession, recovery. Lessons learned, until greedy people are greedy again and it all repeats for the next cycle end.
Rinse repeat, privatise profit, socialise debt.
It won’t change. It won’t collapse. It’s a well oiled machine. It IS the system… the wu wei of the aggregate of Western human behaviour.
It won’t change until Westerners change, but when I look around I don’t see people changing, or willing to change yet.
Shtf again.
Banks get bailed out. Profits are kept because “pensions, jobs, systemic risk” at the cost to society generally.
No consideration is made to the idea of letting things fail and propping them up when it actually impacts normal people’s jobs and pensions.
Gold is suppressed as it always is. Recession, recovery. Lessons learned, until greedy people are greedy again and it all repeats for the next cycle end.
Rinse repeat, privatise profit, socialise debt.
It won’t change. It won’t collapse. It’s a well oiled machine. It IS the system… the wu wei of the aggregate of Western human behaviour.
It won’t change until Westerners change, but when I look around I don’t see people changing, or willing to change yet.
Edited by Mr Whippy on Sunday 19th March 20:49
despite this it does tend to do well before and after shock/negative events/crises?
We have a bit of cash (or the ability to get it), We have a lot of digital money, and so why not have some physical money ie Gold (the only thing seen by banks as money)
Of the three types, holding a physical thing is seen as the most 'out there' , cash is unused by most and so pretty much everyone's money is just a digital balance.
If it's all tinfoil hat so be it, plenty of governments wear them too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_repatriation
We have a bit of cash (or the ability to get it), We have a lot of digital money, and so why not have some physical money ie Gold (the only thing seen by banks as money)
Of the three types, holding a physical thing is seen as the most 'out there' , cash is unused by most and so pretty much everyone's money is just a digital balance.
If it's all tinfoil hat so be it, plenty of governments wear them too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_repatriation
Mr Whippy said:
Banks get bailed out. Profits are kept because “pensions, jobs, systemic risk” at the cost to society generally.
Surely the average Joe will start to ask questions. We had a banking crisis in 2008 and this was not meant to happen again. It is now happening again. Prices have gone through the roof. Surely the average Joe will be seeing and feeling this.
Mortgages will now start rising and becoming a problem for the Average Joe too.
My hope is the average Joe starts getting concerned or asking questions and just looking for answers. This leads to them realising the system is totally F'ed and then they look for safe havens and then this escalates to the destruction of the system as people lose confidence. The destruction is not my hope it is the result of my hope. My hope is people just starting to ask questions and realising the answers are not good.
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