Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)
Discussion
dimots said:
tertius said:
The intrinsic value of the metal in a steel sports Rolex (more or the only ones which trade above RRP) will be about 2.5p.
Tangential to the thread but that's not the case any more - precious metal Rolexes also many times above RRP on secondary market. Rainbow Daytona/Yellow gold green faced Daytona are the most obvious examples.
Back to crypto.
dimots said:
tertius said:
The intrinsic value of the metal in a steel sports Rolex (more or the only ones which trade above RRP) will be about 2.5p.
Tangential to the thread but that's not the case any more - precious metal Rolexes also many times above RRP on secondary market. Rainbow Daytona/Yellow gold green faced Daytona are the most obvious examples.
Back to crypto.
An individual would not purchase a Gold / Platinum Rolex because they would like to have exposure to Gold / Platinum metal prices.
Rolex watches generally appreciate in value over time. The Daytona watches are scarce with long waiting lists (some people waiting 3 years+) and people are flipping them after walking out of the store to double their money (or more). The special edition collectible watches perform even better on the secondary market because they are scarce. Not because of the precious metal aspect.
g4ry13 said:
Not because of the precious metal aspect.
The point is there is always a floor to the price. No matter how undesirable or broken your watch, you can sell it for scrap. Hence why it's called "intrinsic value", ie value built into the product via the raw materials. What is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?
Condi said:
g4ry13 said:
Not because of the precious metal aspect.
The point is there is always a floor to the price. No matter how undesirable or broken your watch, you can sell it for scrap. Hence why it's called "intrinsic value", ie value built into the product via the raw materials.
What is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?
The Rolex Daytona rainbow is advertised for anything from 600k - 900k (the retail on the watch was just under $97k). I don't know how much they're actually changing hands for now but it's probably a number somewhere in the middle. The watch is 18K Gold with some coloured gemstones. I don't doubt that if it was smashed to smithereens that you could sell it for the melt value and the stones. But you sure as hell aren't likely to get more than 20k for it!
So if you own a 600k watch which can be sold for 20k and consider that 'intrinsic value', then fair play to you.
Condi said:
g4ry13 said:
So if you own a 600k watch which can be sold for 20k and consider that 'intrinsic value', then fair play to you.
That is quite literally the definition of "intrinsic value". What was the value of Luna? Even at $0.0000002 it still could go lower!
If Precious metals prices fall and those gemstones aren't in demand then that £20k could become worth £10k.
Luna is currently priced at $0.0001362. Of course it can go lower and go to 0. Is your point that Luna is a scam which is worth 0 and extrapolating that to if 'If Luna is a scam, then maybe Bitcoin is as well and worth 0?'.
I do wonder if whatever side of Crypto you are on largely depends on what side of 30 you currently are ?
I was in the electrical wholesalers today... bunch of young sparkies bemoaning their crypto performance... kind of says it all really..
15+ years ago their equivalent would have been bemoaning the previous nights card school performance..
I was in the electrical wholesalers today... bunch of young sparkies bemoaning their crypto performance... kind of says it all really..
15+ years ago their equivalent would have been bemoaning the previous nights card school performance..
zedmtrappe said:
I do wonder if whatever side of Crypto you are on largely depends on what side of 30 you currently are ?
I was in the electrical wholesalers today... bunch of young sparkies bemoaning their crypto performance... kind of says it all really..
15+ years ago their equivalent would have been bemoaning the previous nights card school performance..
Would that not of been the same 20 years ago, a generation would be talking about google and facebook when it was in there infancy… and the older generation not understanding and sticking with their shares in Lloyds and Northern rock? I was in the electrical wholesalers today... bunch of young sparkies bemoaning their crypto performance... kind of says it all really..
15+ years ago their equivalent would have been bemoaning the previous nights card school performance..
Condi said:
The point is there is always a floor to the price. No matter how undesirable or broken your watch, you can sell it for scrap. Hence why it's called "intrinsic value", ie value built into the product via the raw materials.
What is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?
WY86 said:
Condi said:
The point is there is always a floor to the price. No matter how undesirable or broken your watch, you can sell it for scrap. Hence why it's called "intrinsic value", ie value built into the product via the raw materials.
What is the intrinsic value of Bitcoin?
Whats the intrinsic value of a share in a company?
WY86 said:
Whats the intrinsic value of a share in a company?
The net of it's current value (assets less liabilities), and it's discounted future cash flow. Discounted future cash flow is obviously a personal opinion, but in general it is something which can be calculated to a degree of accuracy. Buying a share buys you part of the business, there is an intrinsic value there until the liabilities are larger than the assets and the future cash flow suggests that it cannot turn a profit in the foreseeable time frame until cash runs out.
It's not complicated; there is something you can point to and go "this is what it's worth". With any crypto that doesn't exist. There is nothing tangible about it. No intellectual property. Nothing which creates or adds value.
Condi said:
The net of it's current value (assets less liabilities), and it's discounted future cash flow.
Discounted future cash flow is obviously a personal opinion, but in general it is something which can be calculated to a degree of accuracy. Buying a share buys you part of the business, there is an intrinsic value there until the liabilities are larger than the assets and the future cash flow suggests that it cannot turn a profit in the foreseeable time frame until cash runs out.
It's not complicated; there is something you can point to and go "this is what it's worth". With any crypto that doesn't exist. There is nothing tangible about it. No intellectual property. Nothing which creates or adds value.
I feel your moving the goal posts, i would say someDiscounted future cash flow is obviously a personal opinion, but in general it is something which can be calculated to a degree of accuracy. Buying a share buys you part of the business, there is an intrinsic value there until the liabilities are larger than the assets and the future cash flow suggests that it cannot turn a profit in the foreseeable time frame until cash runs out.
It's not complicated; there is something you can point to and go "this is what it's worth". With any crypto that doesn't exist. There is nothing tangible about it. No intellectual property. Nothing which creates or adds value.
Crypto has more intrinsic value based on what the capabilities of the software its built upon. You cannot blanket statement crypto because they all have different use cases.
If a share crashes to zero it has no intrinsic value you can’t sell it for scrap paper it is worthless.
Condi said:
The net of it's current value (assets less liabilities), and it's discounted future cash flow.
Discounted future cash flow is obviously a personal opinion, but in general it is something which can be calculated to a degree of accuracy. Buying a share buys you part of the business, there is an intrinsic value there until the liabilities are larger than the assets and the future cash flow suggests that it cannot turn a profit in the foreseeable time frame until cash runs out.
It's not complicated; there is something you can point to and go "this is what it's worth". With any crypto that doesn't exist. There is nothing tangible about it. No intellectual property. Nothing which creates or adds value.
It's amazing that people cannot see the difference between buying a share of a business which actually creates something, employees potentially hundreds of thousands of people, owns physical assets etc. Discounted future cash flow is obviously a personal opinion, but in general it is something which can be calculated to a degree of accuracy. Buying a share buys you part of the business, there is an intrinsic value there until the liabilities are larger than the assets and the future cash flow suggests that it cannot turn a profit in the foreseeable time frame until cash runs out.
It's not complicated; there is something you can point to and go "this is what it's worth". With any crypto that doesn't exist. There is nothing tangible about it. No intellectual property. Nothing which creates or adds value.
Compared to crypto coins which at best have some pretty weak and unfeasible use cases. It shows how deluded the crypto holders are how basic critical thinking skills have worn away.
Jiebo said:
It's amazing that people cannot see the difference between buying a share of a business which actually creates something, employees potentially hundreds of thousands of people, owns physical assets etc.
Compared to crypto coins which at best have some pretty weak and unfeasible use cases. It shows how deluded the crypto holders are how basic critical thinking skills have worn away.
Hows your evergrande and northern rock shares doing?Compared to crypto coins which at best have some pretty weak and unfeasible use cases. It shows how deluded the crypto holders are how basic critical thinking skills have worn away.
WY86 said:
I feel your moving the goal posts, i would say some
Crypto has more intrinsic value based on what the capabilities of the software its built upon. You cannot blanket statement crypto because they all have different use cases.
If a share crashes to zero it has no intrinsic value you can’t sell it for scrap paper it is worthless.
Not moving any goal posts, the intrinsic value of the share at any point in time is exactly what I said it is. It entirely depends on the assets and liabilities of the company you are investing it. The value moves around and can of course be 0, ala Enron and many other companies which have gone bust, but that doesnt mean that the intrinsic value of all shares is 0.Crypto has more intrinsic value based on what the capabilities of the software its built upon. You cannot blanket statement crypto because they all have different use cases.
If a share crashes to zero it has no intrinsic value you can’t sell it for scrap paper it is worthless.
The other point I should have made before is the acknowledgement of risk you are taking on. Shares pay dividends, on the whole, and buying debt pays interest. This is a return for the risk that the company goes bust or the debt doesn't get repaid. With crypto your only "out" is hoping that someone else pays more for it than you did; there is no return for the risk of it going down. Aka the greater fool theory.
Condi said:
Not moving any goal posts, the intrinsic value of the share at any point in time is exactly what I said it is. It entirely depends on the assets and liabilities of the company you are investing it. The value moves around and can of course be 0, ala Enron and many other companies which have gone bust, but that doesnt mean that the intrinsic value of all shares is 0.
The other point I should have made before is the acknowledgement of risk you are taking on. Shares pay dividends, on the whole, and buying debt pays interest. This is a return for the risk that the company goes bust or the debt doesn't get repaid. With crypto your only "out" is hoping that someone else pays more for it than you did; there is no return for the risk of it going down. Aka the greater fool theory.
Wrong again, you can do liquidity pools within crypto and pairing it against a fiat so whenever someone does that transfer you earn interest with some APRS over 100% can you do that with shares?The other point I should have made before is the acknowledgement of risk you are taking on. Shares pay dividends, on the whole, and buying debt pays interest. This is a return for the risk that the company goes bust or the debt doesn't get repaid. With crypto your only "out" is hoping that someone else pays more for it than you did; there is no return for the risk of it going down. Aka the greater fool theory.
Also some crypto is deflationary.
Edited by WY86 on Thursday 19th May 19:31
WY86 said:
Wrong again, you can do liquidity pools within crypto and pairing it against a fiat so whenever someone does that transfer you earn interest with some APRS over 100% can you do that with shares?
Well, as I said above, many people made money from Bernie Madoff but it doesn't mean it's legit. Maybe you can explain to me, in simple terms, where the money comes from to pay over 100% APR? Who is paying for this, and why are the people staking their crypto being paid such a large interest rate?
Any comments on my explanation of the value of a share, or going to ignore that?
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