Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)

Crypto Currency Thread (Vol.2)

Author
Discussion

Ari

19,328 posts

214 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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Mr Whippy said:
I’m putting my money on BTC now. To think all the miners and holders and so on would let it all go to zero for no reason, makes no sense.
How would they stop it from doing so?

Ari

19,328 posts

214 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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g4ry13 said:
If I spend 600k on a watch and then someone offers me 20k i'd call that a kick in the nuts!

If Precious metals prices fall and those gemstones aren't in demand then that 20k could become worth 10k.

Luna is currently priced at $0.0001362. Of course it can go lower and go to 0. Is your point that Luna is a scam which is worth 0 and extrapolating that to if 'If Luna is a scam, then maybe Bitcoin is as well and worth 0?'.
If your £600K watch became worthless you could still look at it, enjoy it, use it to tell the time, pass it on to your kids.

What could you use your Luna for if you couldn't find someone to buy hoping that they could sell it for more to someone who hoped to sell it for more to someone who hoped... ?

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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Condi said:
Well, as I said above, many people made money from Bernie Madoff but it doesn't mean it's legit.

Maybe you can explain to me, in simple terms, where the money comes from to pay over 100% APR? Who is paying for this, and why are the people staking their crypto being paid such a large interest rate?

Any comments on my explanation of the value of a share, or going to ignore that?
So essentially with all transactions there is a burn or gas fee for making it and depending on the swap depends on how that fee would be. Now why layer 2 is important on ETH is because it cuts the gas fee dramatically.

Your view on a shares value is a simplistic one when in fact there are numerous ways for a shares price to be manipulated via naked shorting and whales moving positions. The stock market is also not fair that there is a retail time period but then also a before/after hours trading where market makers can trade and effect the price and retail are frozen out. That does not happen on crypto its open 24/7.

By all means i am not saying all crypto is good there are scams out there but with research and a understanding you can work out what has potential and what is a pump and dump or scam token.


Edited by WY86 on Thursday 19th May 19:49

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
Ari said:
If your 600K watch became worthless you could still look at it, enjoy it, use it to tell the time, pass it on to your kids.

What could you use your Luna for if you couldn't find someone to buy hoping that they could sell it for more to someone who hoped to sell it for more to someone who hoped... ?
What could you do with a digital share that you bought on etoro that went to zero?

Ari

19,328 posts

214 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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zedmtrappe said:
I do wonder if whatever side of Crypto you are on largely depends on what side of 30 you currently are ?



I was in the electrical wholesalers today... bunch of young sparkies bemoaning their crypto performance... kind of says it all really..


15+ years ago their equivalent would have been bemoaning the previous nights card school performance..
Thirty years ago it was Network Marketing that was going to make everyone rich by selling on to the next tier who would sell it on to the next tier who would...

Three hundred-ish years ago it was tulip bulbs.

This is nothing new, it's just dressed up as techy and clever. smile

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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Ari said:
Thirty years ago it was Network Marketing that was going to make everyone rich by selling on to the next tier who would sell it on to the next tier who would...

Three hundred-ish years ago it was tulip bulbs.

This is nothing new, it's just dressed up as techy and clever. smile
Tbf MLMS are still around today.

Condi

17,088 posts

170 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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WY86 said:
So essentially with all transactions there is a burn or gas fee for making it and depending on the swap depends on how that fee would be. Now why layer 2 is important on ETH is because it cuts the gas fee dramatically.

Your view on a shares value is a simplistic one when in fact there are numerous ways for a shares price to be manipulated via naked shorting and whales moving positions. The stock market is also not fair that there is a retail time period but then also a before/after hours trading where market makers can trade and effect the price and retail are frozen out. That does not happen on crypto its open 24/7.
Yes, but the transaction fee is used to pay the miners, no? What does "staking" or "pooling" do? Or is the risk that everyone takes out their money and there is not enough in the pool to repay everyone? Anything paying a good return is rewarding you for some risk, so what is the risk?

My view on shares is the correct one. Intrinsic value =/= the share price on the market. Value investors will look for shares which have a higher intrinsic value than share price, and quite frequently the price of stocks detaches from it's value. Tesla shares for example are a pretty classic example, or any of the "meme stocks" which got hyped over the last 2 years.

zedmtrappe

244 posts

95 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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Ari said:
Thirty years ago it was Network Marketing that was going to make everyone rich
Yeah actually that''s a much better example .... and brings back bad memories of friends wanting to setup meetings to discuss the amazing opportunities that lay in wait...... selling washing up liquid from Amway..

zedmtrappe

244 posts

95 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
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WY86 said:
Would that not of been the same 20 years ago, a generation would be talking about google and facebook when it was in there infancy… and the older generation not understanding and sticking with their shares in Lloyds and Northern rock?
To be fair I do remember my dad saying to me: ' The only thing you'll ever be able to sell on the internet is books ' :-)

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
Condi said:
Yes, but the transaction fee is used to pay the miners, no? What does "staking" or "pooling" do? Or is the risk that everyone takes out their money and there is not enough in the pool to repay everyone? Anything paying a good return is rewarding you for some risk, so what is the risk?

My view on shares is the correct one. Intrinsic value =/= the share price on the market. Value investors will look for shares which have a higher intrinsic value than share price, and quite frequently the price of stocks detaches from it's value. Tesla shares for example are a pretty classic example, or any of the "meme stocks" which got hyped over the last 2 years.
Not all tokens are mined, some crypto have tokens issued at the beginning and are set and will not be increased and over time they burn will and lower in quantity driving their value up.

Your being paid to provide liquidity and not all pairs are high some maybe 20% some maybe 45% and some could be 300%. Basically with something called smart contracts that liquidity goes towards moving the trade over onto the main blockchain.

Yes there are risks.. such as what happened with Luna you would loose your asset if that was to happen.

I still disagree with your views on shares though it is not a fair playing field.


Edited by WY86 on Thursday 19th May 20:12

Condi

17,088 posts

170 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
WY86 said:
Your being paid to provide liquidity and not all pairs are high some maybe 20% some maybe 45% and some could be 300%. Basically with something called smart contracts that liquidity goes towards moving the trade over onto the main blockchain.
Okay, so where does the money come from? If you are getting even 20% interest that means the people transferring money from fiat to crypto are paying 20% to do so. Doesn't sound very appealing or sustainable if you lose 20% of your money just to convert from £ to crypto!


WY86 said:
I still disagree with your views on shares though it is not a fair playing field.
I'm not saying it is a fair playing field, but the important thing is that price =/= value. Price can be anything, for any number of reasons, but long term investors and traders look to take advantage of the difference between price and value to either buy under-priced shares or short over-priced shares.

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
Condi said:
WY86 said:
Your being paid to provide liquidity and not all pairs are high some maybe 20% some maybe 45% and some could be 300%. Basically with something called smart contracts that liquidity goes towards moving the trade over onto the main blockchain.
Okay, so where does the money come from? If you are getting even 20% interest that means the people transferring money from fiat to crypto are paying 20% to do so. Doesn't sound very appealing or sustainable if you lose 20% of your money just to convert from to crypto!


WY86 said:
I still disagree with your views on shares though it is not a fair playing field.
I'm not saying it is a fair playing field, but the important thing is that price =/= value. Price can be anything, for any number of reasons, but long term investors and traders look to take advantage of the difference between price and value to either buy under-priced shares or short over-priced shares.
Your getting 20% of what you staked not what they are paying for providing that liquidity. Different crypto has different gas fees. To provide and your only getting it for your pair so if its Eth to US dollar or vice versa. I would need go give a very detailed response to explain but i do not have the energy.

g4ry13

16,887 posts

254 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
Ari said:
g4ry13 said:
If I spend 600k on a watch and then someone offers me 20k i'd call that a kick in the nuts!

If Precious metals prices fall and those gemstones aren't in demand then that 20k could become worth 10k.

Luna is currently priced at $0.0001362. Of course it can go lower and go to 0. Is your point that Luna is a scam which is worth 0 and extrapolating that to if 'If Luna is a scam, then maybe Bitcoin is as well and worth 0?'.
If your 600K watch became worthless you could still look at it, enjoy it, use it to tell the time, pass it on to your kids.

What could you use your Luna for if you couldn't find someone to buy hoping that they could sell it for more to someone who hoped to sell it for more to someone who hoped... ?
A £10 Casio would do the same, hardly worth investing £600k solely for the purpose of using it to tell the time. As for my kids: they'll probably want some holographic watch which allows them to use Web 3.0/4.0 and connect with the metaverse and make digital payments rather than my old fashioned device which has a few hands on it and only tells the time!

I could check my hypothetical Luna wallet and look back at it with fond memory that once upon a time it was worth a lot of money and made me feel happy. Alternatively, I could look back at it to reflect on it as a lesson. Either way, there would be some personal value.

Condi

17,088 posts

170 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
WY86 said:
Your getting 20% of what you staked not what they are paying for providing that liquidity. Different crypto has different gas fees. To provide and your only getting it for your pair so if its Eth to US dollar or vice versa.
Right, but if you are getting 20% return that money is ONLY coming from people using the "service". How can they pay less for the liquidity than you are getting in return?

Maybe someone else can explain really simply?

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
g4ry13 said:
A 10 Casio would do the same, hardly worth investing 600k solely for the purpose of using it to tell the time. As for my kids: they'll probably want some holographic watch which allows them to use Web 3.0/4.0 and connect with the metaverse and make digital payments rather than my old fashioned device which has a few hands on it and only tells the time!

I could check my hypothetical Luna wallet and look back at it with fond memory that once upon a time it was worth a lot of money and made me feel happy. Alternatively, I could look back at it to reflect on it as a lesson. Either way, there would be some personal value.
I think generally they are being intentionally being obtuse. They don’t want to get it and thats fine.

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
Condi said:
Right, but if you are getting 20% return that money is ONLY coming from people using the "service". How can they pay less for the liquidity than you are getting in return?

Maybe someone else can explain really simply?
Its not a service it is software firstly. They could pay less by using a layer 2 which is a layer sitting on top of the main blockchain. Think as a blockchain as a motorway and at peak times traffic blocks up, same as a blockchain which then causes higher gas fees for processing transactions. A layer 2 would be like a side road where you do the bulk of the work and once thats done you add it to the blockchain or join the motorway missing the congestion and is all done through a smart contract.

Now some blockchains are decentralised and rely on crypto holders to provide the liquidity to perform those transactions.

g4ry13

16,887 posts

254 months

Thursday 19th May 2022
quotequote all
WY86 said:
g4ry13 said:
A 10 Casio would do the same, hardly worth investing 600k solely for the purpose of using it to tell the time. As for my kids: they'll probably want some holographic watch which allows them to use Web 3.0/4.0 and connect with the metaverse and make digital payments rather than my old fashioned device which has a few hands on it and only tells the time!

I could check my hypothetical Luna wallet and look back at it with fond memory that once upon a time it was worth a lot of money and made me feel happy. Alternatively, I could look back at it to reflect on it as a lesson. Either way, there would be some personal value.
I think generally they are being intentionally being obtuse. They don’t want to get it and thats fine.
The conversation is nothing new in any case. It's been done to death over the various volumes / threads.

At this point, you're either in the camp of investing / gambling on crypto or of the opinion that it's a giant ponzi and will never have any intention to acquire some and nothing will change their mind.

The latter group I have no idea why they continue to return here other than they enjoy arguing.

r3g

2,919 posts

23 months

Friday 20th May 2022
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r3g said:
Tonberry said:
Seems a few of you are a little further into the DeFi ponzi than I thought.

I didn't go into Swapnex in the end. Further due diligence discovered that a slow rug seems to be happening as withdrawal amounts are being limited. Usually a sign that the writing is on the wall.
Annnnnnnnnd they've exit scammed! Website and TG gone! hehe Alan Cosens on YT has just $350k https://youtu.be/XX8AtwEGjus?t=444eek

Simian nodes have just rugged as well, hope you weren't in them? I think we're likely to see quite a lot of rugs happening on these projects now we're bear.

digger_R

1,807 posts

205 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
g4ry13 said:
The conversation is nothing new in any case. It's been done to death over the various volumes / threads.

At this point, you're either in the camp of investing / gambling on crypto or of the opinion that it's a giant ponzi and will never have any intention to acquire some and nothing will change their mind.

The latter group I have no idea why they continue to return here other than they enjoy arguing.
I find this thread amusing for that reason alone!
It's hilarious now that we have a downtrend that the boomers come out saying I told you so - just looks like a case of sour grapes as they've been watching it but haven't been able to capitalize on the best performing asset of the last decade.

No one knows if it will continue - though it's impossible to argue with bitcoins $ value increase over the last decade.

I'd be happy to contribute more as it seems like there are a couple of clued up individuals - the thread is just kind of swamped by the dullards who would rather just argue with random people on the internet.
Enjoy your weekend!

WY86

1,318 posts

26 months

Friday 20th May 2022
quotequote all
digger_R said:
I find this thread amusing for that reason alone!
It's hilarious now that we have a downtrend that the boomers come out saying I told you so - just looks like a case of sour grapes as they've been watching it but haven't been able to capitalize on the best performing asset of the last decade.

No one knows if it will continue - though it's impossible to argue with bitcoins $ value increase over the last decade.

I'd be happy to contribute more as it seems like there are a couple of clued up individuals - the thread is just kind of swamped by the dullards who would rather just argue with random people on the internet.
Enjoy your weekend!
The real amusing part is that they are sat critiquing when their shares and stock markets are also having a wobble.

At least attack crypto when the markets are surging and crypto is down.