Government Debt, QE and printing money.
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
Mr Whippy said:
This is just one tiny slither of our system of people doing f
k all of value given what’s happening out there, likely at high cost, and with pensions totting up etc.
Last week at about 11am three vans arrived outside my house to do something - broadband I think. There must have been about eight blokes in orange jackets. They got out, had a chat, then I heard one of say 'Let's go down the burger van and have lunch'. They cam back about four hours later. And how much is each one of those earning?k all of value given what’s happening out there, likely at high cost, and with pensions totting up etc.Roadworks... from the wheelbarrow in the road with 200 yards of cones round it and a 3-way stop system causing mayhem when they could put the wheelbarrow on the verge. The miles of dual carriageway with 40mph average speed cameras and nothing happening. But it happens - I suppose because some law says it must. It's all a vast cost to the country, not just in manpower - there are crops to pick - but knock-on effects of everybody else's time wasted, missed appointments, extra fuel used etc. I believe a country can 'legislate itself to death' - and we can't be far off. My hope is that freedom from the EU can reduce the burden; we shall see.
Old lamp post in the process of going, new one being installed, old one at one side of entrance to properties, new one at the other.
“In the 60s they’d have done this in a few hours” I’m sure I’d have heard my Dad say.
I think today the actual job has taken 2hrs.
What’s added the extra 10+ hrs and probably 5x cost is having different teams drive back and forth to put barriers up, dig trenches, lay wire, fill holes temporarily, connection, disconnection, etc etc.
I’m sure this somehow makes sense on paper because each person is always doing work, but in practice they must all spend a lot more time and money driving to each job.
The time on site is magnified with temporary fills, barriers kicking around days or weeks, etc.
Again just a tiny job in the big picture of things.
I sit back and wonder how anything big actually gets done any more.
And I also then ponder if we’re doomed to not progress any further in any meaningful way, because labour is just too expensive and regulation too dense.
The post war period boomed for a reason I suppose.
Ouroboros said:
BoRED S2upid said:
They should have just whacked tax up straight after covid. Most would have expected it. It was well known how costly it was.
amazon doubled sales, they said there would windfall taxes, yet never happened.I actually think politics need to change, more longer strategy and limits of debts and spending by all parties. Because who ever takes over next, is f
ked.ked us over, Tory’s fked us over etc… BoRED S2upid said:
I read something about a Scandinavian country can’t remember which that it was in their constitution that whatever party is in power has to do x y z which sounds like a great idea as all we get is labour fked us over, Tory’s fked us over etc…
Yes the problem is now, is politics is based on public opinion, at the time. Tough choices are not really made because you can't sell them to the public. Sad really. ked us over, Tory’s fked us over etc… BoRED S2upid said:
Welshbeef said:
Cost of covid by country
UK £412b
France £490b
Italy £750b
Germany £1.2T
Say no more.
I’d like to see America and China on there. Never find Chinas it would be staggering they basically shut down everything for 2 years and are still terrified of it. UK £412b
France £490b
Italy £750b
Germany £1.2T
Say no more.
The CCP isn’t stupid and they must know it’ll keep coming back in, time and again.
It seems more likely they’re doing lockdowns for some other reason.
Keeping the population subservient and dependent?
Economic cold-warfare with those who are dependent on their exports?
'Control' seems more likely than fear......
Per the link below, you can read about the banks money freezing (hopefully not total loss for these people) and also see further down that their covid passes going red the day the people were going to protest!
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/23/economy/china-b...
Per the link below, you can read about the banks money freezing (hopefully not total loss for these people) and also see further down that their covid passes going red the day the people were going to protest!
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/23/economy/china-b...
Ouroboros said:
Still get people sating Labour magic money tree, i can only guess people are just deluded. The T tory rule has not done the cuts as needed/promised and spent spent spent. It was nearly 2 trillion before CV19 hit.
You mean the cuts that Labour argued against everytime they have been proposed or introduced?We haven't had proper austerity because public opinion is agaisnt it, public opinion whipped up by Labour.
Ouroboros said:
Well Boris tonight commited to spending more money to support Ukraine, the old magic money tree never ends. I think he will have the record of a PM spending the most in UK history. Easy when it ain't your money.
And the public want to support Ukraine / flag waving or clapping doesn’t cut it. Anecdotally I’ve heard that a number of those who offered their houses to Ukrainian refugees are now asking when they will leave their houses. Some have already got them out.
All too easy to say yes please come over and we will help you…. Then the reality hits home
rdjohn said:
Ouroboros said:
https://news.sky.com/story/government-forced-to-ma...
Magic money tree needs paying back, unfortunately.
7.6 billion to service debt, another record the Tories have set. Doubling the debt to over 2 trillion in 10 years is another.
But if you think what Blair/Brown managed to do to the economy during a Rainbow periodMagic money tree needs paying back, unfortunately.
7.6 billion to service debt, another record the Tories have set. Doubling the debt to over 2 trillion in 10 years is another.
B/B inherited a nearly 40% debt/GDP ratio from Major, and brought it down to less than 30%, before it slowly crept up. This was still way lower than it had been during Thatcher or, indeed, at any time since 1914.
Then came the GFC. Unless you're suggesting that B/B caused the GFC (happy to have that debate), then - like Covid - they had to respond.
The basic problem with the post-GFC response was that it was too little stimulus, too much propping up house prices and other things. GDP didn't grow back, causing debt/GDP to rise for nothing. That mis-management (which really starts with Cameron/Osborne) is the root of where we are today.
Looking further back, this type of mismanagement is nothing new: if we'd invested our Marshall Aid money (1/3 more then Germany, don't forget) rather than spaffing it up the wall pretending to be a world power, we'd have been *the* European powerhouse economy of the last 50 years...
skwdenyer said:
rdjohn said:
Ouroboros said:
https://news.sky.com/story/government-forced-to-ma...
Magic money tree needs paying back, unfortunately.
7.6 billion to service debt, another record the Tories have set. Doubling the debt to over 2 trillion in 10 years is another.
But if you think what Blair/Brown managed to do to the economy during a Rainbow periodMagic money tree needs paying back, unfortunately.
7.6 billion to service debt, another record the Tories have set. Doubling the debt to over 2 trillion in 10 years is another.
B/B inherited a nearly 40% debt/GDP ratio from Major, and brought it down to less than 30%, before it slowly crept up. This was still way lower than it had been during Thatcher or, indeed, at any time since 1914.
Then came the GFC. Unless you're suggesting that B/B caused the GFC (happy to have that debate), then - like Covid - they had to respond.
The basic problem with the post-GFC response was that it was too little stimulus, too much propping up house prices and other things. GDP didn't grow back, causing debt/GDP to rise for nothing. That mis-management (which really starts with Cameron/Osborne) is the root of where we are today.
Looking further back, this type of mismanagement is nothing new: if we'd invested our Marshall Aid money (1/3 more then Germany, don't forget) rather than spaffing it up the wall pretending to be a world power, we'd have been *the* European powerhouse economy of the last 50 years...
When is the point when we just can't spend anymore. Interest payments 200 billion a year? 3 trillion in the hole?
What strategy to get us out of debt? Surely not spending more money would be a start?
I find it odd there is no real debate on the money spending. The Rwanda thing was 125 million before even finding out if legal?
What strategy to get us out of debt? Surely not spending more money would be a start?
I find it odd there is no real debate on the money spending. The Rwanda thing was 125 million before even finding out if legal?
Ouroboros said:
When is the point when we just can't spend anymore. Interest payments 200 billion a year? 3 trillion in the hole?
What strategy to get us out of debt? Surely not spending more money would be a start?
I find it odd there is no real debate on the money spending. The Rwanda thing was 125 million before even finding out if legal?
Because when we were faced with it 2010 onwards the getting to no deficit people kept shouting no more austerity and we need payrises. Thing is they had received way too much of pay rises in the decade before…. And no austerity ever happened budgets are ever increasing. What strategy to get us out of debt? Surely not spending more money would be a start?
I find it odd there is no real debate on the money spending. The Rwanda thing was 125 million before even finding out if legal?
You know those £5, £10, £20, £50 notes you use every day....
https://paulwalternewbury.wordpress.com/2007/02/11...
Cash was created to make use of money held at a bank. It's technically an IOU.
https://paulwalternewbury.wordpress.com/2007/02/11...
Cash was created to make use of money held at a bank. It's technically an IOU.
skwdenyer said:
I can't keep letting this one lie. Whether you like B/B or not, this is just not true.
B/B inherited a nearly 40% debt/GDP ratio from Major, and brought it down to less than 30%, before it slowly crept up. This was still way lower than it had been during Thatcher or, indeed, at any time since 1914.
Then came the GFC. Unless you're suggesting that B/B caused the GFC (happy to have that debate), then - like Covid - they had to respond.
The basic problem with the post-GFC response was that it was too little stimulus, too much propping up house prices and other things. GDP didn't grow back, causing debt/GDP to rise for nothing. That mis-management (which really starts with Cameron/Osborne) is the root of where we are today.
Looking further back, this type of mismanagement is nothing new: if we'd invested our Marshall Aid money (1/3 more then Germany, don't forget) rather than spaffing it up the wall pretending to be a world power, we'd have been *the* European powerhouse economy of the last 50 years...
Didnt Brown also sell off all our gold at the bottom of the market around ‘99 which would show in this graph?B/B inherited a nearly 40% debt/GDP ratio from Major, and brought it down to less than 30%, before it slowly crept up. This was still way lower than it had been during Thatcher or, indeed, at any time since 1914.
Then came the GFC. Unless you're suggesting that B/B caused the GFC (happy to have that debate), then - like Covid - they had to respond.
The basic problem with the post-GFC response was that it was too little stimulus, too much propping up house prices and other things. GDP didn't grow back, causing debt/GDP to rise for nothing. That mis-management (which really starts with Cameron/Osborne) is the root of where we are today.
Looking further back, this type of mismanagement is nothing new: if we'd invested our Marshall Aid money (1/3 more then Germany, don't forget) rather than spaffing it up the wall pretending to be a world power, we'd have been *the* European powerhouse economy of the last 50 years...
ridds said:
You know those £5, £10, £20, £50 notes you use every day....
https://paulwalternewbury.wordpress.com/2007/02/11...
Cash was created to make use of money held at a bank. It's technically an IOU.
Yes it even says it on the actual note, that can't be news to you surely?https://paulwalternewbury.wordpress.com/2007/02/11...
Cash was created to make use of money held at a bank. It's technically an IOU.
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