What cut backs have you made recently?

What cut backs have you made recently?

Author
Discussion

RizzoTheRat

25,084 posts

191 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
xeny said:
I'm increasingly of the opinion that modern kit plugged in but shut down draws very little. I've a stack of 5 laptops on my desk at present all shut down but plugged in to a watt meter. The meter is reporting 3.5W or so for the stack, so an average under 1W each.
My TV and the AV receiver are at least 10 years old, sounds like and excuse for a new TV and fancy sound system biggrin

brickwall

5,192 posts

209 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
RizzoTheRat said:
It's just when you think of it as €2/day it seems crazy!
I was speaking to one owner who reckoned his second home energy was €20 a day averaged across the year!

OutInTheShed

7,363 posts

25 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Bullett said:
Thanks.

10w in standby
1600w full whack.
10min to heat up from 0.

10w x 24hr at current price cap 7.5p per day
vs
10w x 16hrs = 4.5p + 1600w x 10min (7.5p) = 12p

+ actual usage which is the same in either scenario.

Not worth switching it off unless I've done the maths wrong. or misunderstood something.
Looks cheaper than a kettle with moderate use though (if you forget the huge initial outlay!)
That would imply the contraption loses more heat in 8 hours cooling from 100degc to 20degC than it loses in 24 hours at 100degC.
Sounds like Mpemba effect meets cold fusion?

If it's cooling at a rate of 10W at 100degC, and holds 3 litres, that's 3litres x 4200J/kg/K = 12600 J/K for 10J/second, implying cooling of 1k per 1260 seconds? = 21 minutes i.e. 3 degrees an hour. So it will cool less than 24 degrees in 8 hours?
So you will save a tiny amount by switching it off for 8 hours because it will lose a little less heat when it's less hot.

More likely it will be a waste when somebody tries to make a cup of tea at 5 AM and the water's not hot enough?

I'm guessing the cheaper boiling water taps are not so shiny. A lot on ebay not listing that critical standby wattage.

Also there must be a small quantity of water between the tank and the tap outlet which presumably cools a lot more quickly and is wasted, just as we waste hot water every time we use a kettle? Every time you use it you must heat some tubing at least?





Carbon Sasquatch

4,582 posts

63 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
brickwall said:
RizzoTheRat said:
It's just when you think of it as €2/day it seems crazy!
I was speaking to one owner who reckoned his second home energy was €20 a day averaged across the year!
Per day ? wow - how big is the second home ?

My UK house is currently empty and that is costing around £25 per month for electric & about £7 for the gas standing charge. I've left the fridge & freezer on plus the wifi and TV's etc on standby.

So about £1 per day is the base level charge before I've really done anything.

paralla

3,528 posts

134 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
RizzoTheRat said:
My TV and the AV receiver are at least 10 years old, sounds like and excuse for a new TV and fancy sound system biggrin
I’m surprised how inefficient AV receives are allowed to be. I run a big 7 channel class A/B Denon AV receiver that’s on whenever the telly is on. It dissipates lots of heat, more efficient class D ones seem few and far between.

I just looked up the specs, it can consume up to 500Watts! No wonder it gets hot. It has an Eco mode that I’m away to turn on immediately.



Edited by paralla on Tuesday 28th June 19:24

brickwall

5,192 posts

209 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Carbon Sasquatch said:
brickwall said:
RizzoTheRat said:
It's just when you think of it as €2/day it seems crazy!
I was speaking to one owner who reckoned his second home energy was €20 a day averaged across the year!
Per day ? wow - how big is the second home ?

My UK house is currently empty and that is costing around £25 per month for electric & about £7 for the gas standing charge. I've left the fridge & freezer on plus the wifi and TV's etc on standby.

So about £1 per day is the base level charge before I've really done anything.
Not sure exactly, I think about 3000sq ft. But no gas - electric heating/hot water only.

OutInTheShed

7,363 posts

25 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
gazapc said:
dmahon said:
Can I ask about gas. Our hot water is on a timer from 6am-7pm, but I understand that isn’t as wasteful as it sounds as it only kicks in if the tank empties and/or cools down. Is there any benefit to me trying to chop the times down?

We have showers in the morning and evening and hot water for washing up so we shouldn’t need much in the summer.
Yes, turn it on for an hour two in the evening and morning and see how it goes.

The amount it is costing you will depend on how insulated your tank is. If it is poorly insulated, it will currently be kicking in throughout the day to top up the temperature even though water isnt being used. If it is well insulated, it might only be turning on occasionally.
It also depends on the difference between the switch-off temperature and the switch-on temperature of the thermostat.

If the tank needs to cool from 60 to 50 degrees for the boiler to kick back in, that may not happen for several hours.
If it cuts back in at 58 degrees obviously that will be a lot sooner for the same standard of insulation.

paralla

3,528 posts

134 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
paralla said:
RizzoTheRat said:
My TV and the AV receiver are at least 10 years old, sounds like and excuse for a new TV and fancy sound system biggrin
I’m surprised how inefficient AV receives are allowed to be. I run a big 7 channel class A/B Denon AV receiver that’s on whenever the telly is on. It dissipates lots of heat, more efficient class D ones seem few and far between.

I just looked up the specs, it can consume up to 500Watts! No wonder it gets hot. It has an Eco mode that I’m away to turn on immediately.



Edited by paralla on Tuesday 28th June 19:24
Done

OutInTheShed

7,363 posts

25 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Decent audio should not be too many watts.
I have an older Arcam amp driving a couple of pairs of speakers.
Stevie Ray Vaughan, plenty loud enough in two two rooms is under 20W on the wattmeter plug.

The watt rating on the back of the amp is some sort of peak.
Obviously if you have a big room, inefficient speakers and crazy sub-bass effects, it will cost, but only during the loud bits unless it's a class A amp.

DT1975

460 posts

27 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
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Not an intentional cut back but I started home brewing about 12 months ago when I was given a basic starter kit . A typical brew kit is between £13-£15 so works out about 37 pence a pint once you're up and running. For anyone who enjoys a beer after 'beer o'clock ' the savings are obvious.

Somebody

1,152 posts

82 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
gazapc said:
dmahon said:
Can I ask about gas. Our hot water is on a timer from 6am-7pm, but I understand that isn’t as wasteful as it sounds as it only kicks in if the tank empties and/or cools down. Is there any benefit to me trying to chop the times down?

We have showers in the morning and evening and hot water for washing up so we shouldn’t need much in the summer.
Yes, turn it on for an hour two in the evening and morning and see how it goes.

The amount it is costing you will depend on how insulated your tank is. If it is poorly insulated, it will currently be kicking in throughout the day to top up the temperature even though water isnt being used. If it is well insulated, it might only be turning on occasionally.
It also depends on the difference between the switch-off temperature and the switch-on temperature of the thermostat.

If the tank needs to cool from 60 to 50 degrees for the boiler to kick back in, that may not happen for several hours.
If it cuts back in at 58 degrees obviously that will be a lot sooner for the same standard of insulation.
Also beware that the water in your tank should have reached at least 51 °C to avoid legionella.

Temperature affects the survival of Legionella as follows (from wikipedia):
Above 70 °C (158 °F) – Legionella dies almost instantly
At 60 °C (140 °F) – 90% die in 2 minutes
At 50 °C (122 °F) – 90% die in 80–124 minutes, depending on strain
48 to 50 °C (118 to 122 °F) – can survive but do not multiply
32 to 42 °C (90 to 108 °F) – ideal growth range
25 to 45 °C (77 to 113 °F) – growth range
Below 20 °C (68 °F) – can survive, even below freezing, but are dormant

Other temperature sensitivity

60 to 70 °C (140 to 158 °F) to 80 °C (176 °F) – Disinfection range
66 °C (151 °F) – Legionella dies within 2 minutes
60 °C (140 °F) – Legionella dies within 32 minutes
55 °C (131 °F) – Legionella dies within 5 to 6 hours

Sticks.

8,706 posts

250 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
I hope it's better than my effort lol. Kit is still in the loft.

For comparison, bottles of Bank's are @89p/500ml so 80p/pint. Nothing special, ok though.

Bullett

10,873 posts

183 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
OutInTheShed said:
That would imply the contraption loses more heat in 8 hours cooling from 100degc to 20degC than it loses in 24 hours at 100degC.
Sounds like Mpemba effect meets cold fusion?

If it's cooling at a rate of 10W at 100degC, and holds 3 litres, that's 3litres x 4200J/kg/K = 12600 J/K for 10J/second, implying cooling of 1k per 1260 seconds? = 21 minutes i.e. 3 degrees an hour. So it will cool less than 24 degrees in 8 hours?
So you will save a tiny amount by switching it off for 8 hours because it will lose a little less heat when it's less hot.

More likely it will be a waste when somebody tries to make a cup of tea at 5 AM and the water's not hot enough?

I'm guessing the cheaper boiling water taps are not so shiny. A lot on ebay not listing that critical standby wattage.

Also there must be a small quantity of water between the tank and the tap outlet which presumably cools a lot more quickly and is wasted, just as we waste hot water every time we use a kettle? Every time you use it you must heat some tubing at least?
I'd not considered that it wouldn't be heating from room temp but as you say there is little to no benefit. Especially if you consider that I'd be looking to use a smart plug which would use 1-2w 24hrs a day on top.

You are right though there is cold in the pipes. you need to run it for about 1sec before putting the mug underneath.

Somebody

1,152 posts

82 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Bullett said:
Especially if you consider that I'd be looking to use a smart plug which would use 1-2w 24hrs a day on top.
Are you sure it will work with a smart plug? I think you have to physically press the red button on the tank to turn it on?

James6112

4,195 posts

27 months

Tuesday 28th June 2022
quotequote all
Somebody said:
Bullett said:
Especially if you consider that I'd be looking to use a smart plug which would use 1-2w 24hrs a day on top.
Are you sure it will work with a smart plug? I think you have to physically press the red button on the tank to turn it on?
A good reminder about smart plugs. I have (had) 4 on 24/7
Alexa, turn on the lamps…
But 4 @ say 6w total, is a waste, for a trivial convenience.

Alexa Echo dot, another couple of watts, rarely used. Turned that off too!


MrVert

4,394 posts

238 months

Wednesday 29th June 2022
quotequote all
Thought I'd post this as we had a smart meter fitted in early April this year.

We're with Octopus, the App is pretty decent, breaking the two energy usages down to daily / weekly / monthly periods.

It has definitely made us all (read me only) realise what is being wasted. Hot water changed to one hour a day now which does 4 showers (large pressurised cylinder) and everyone is now turning off lights and unused electronic items. Heating is not on, but we have worked out timings that will reduce the hours / day by about 25% from last year when we moved in.

Had some time to spare so thought I would do a direct comparison of electricity and gas usage from last year to same period this year.

For May 2021 compared to May 2022 average usage per day is:
Electricity kWh: 25.65 (2021) - 12.76 (2022) = - 50.25%
Gas (m3): 2.38 (2021) - 1.67 (2022) = - 30.01%

That's a pretty substantial saving.

For context, this is a 200 year old Barn conversion, converted in 2015 to latest Building Regs, highly insulated, new insulated floors with underfloor heating and tiled floors throughout - so pretty efficient, EPC B.

I plan to keep an eye on usage and hopefully this will alleviate some of the looming increases.

Still not sure whether to stay on the cap or fix. Current offer is approx. +41% for electricity and +45% for gas.

Standing charges are approx the same.



Carbon Sasquatch

4,582 posts

63 months

Wednesday 29th June 2022
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Towels ?

When I get out of the shower, I'm the cleanest thing in the house.
Therefore every time I use my towel, it's getting cleaner.
How can it ever need washing ?
smile

bmwmike

6,918 posts

107 months

Wednesday 29th June 2022
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t-shirts are only supposed to be worn once and then washed? confused

Puzzles

1,784 posts

110 months

Wednesday 29th June 2022
quotequote all
T shirts, underwear, socks once and trousers a couple of times. Towels once a week along with sheets.

nickfrog

20,871 posts

216 months

Wednesday 29th June 2022
quotequote all
bmwmike said:
t-shirts are only supposed to be worn once and then washed? confused
It's worked very well for me so far that way laugh