Re-mortgage now or wait?
Discussion
WeiB.beer said:
My existing Halifax mortgage fix ends in September 2023, Halifax offered 3 new deals 2,5 and 10 years fixed.
We’re in our ‘forever’ home and the 10 year fix was the most competitive, so thankfully we locked this in last weekend at 3.95% for 10 years with no arrangement fee.
Did you pay an ERC?We’re in our ‘forever’ home and the 10 year fix was the most competitive, so thankfully we locked this in last weekend at 3.95% for 10 years with no arrangement fee.
Switched now or just got the offer?
sent you an email earlier, cheersCoolHands said:
Anyway so after this increase what’s the outlook for following few months? Will edge back down?
Base rates? The 25bp is a calming number designed to show they want to stop raising but we have all the pay rises from the strike settlements to come in and private sector employment still looks bullish and inflationary also as do all the continued govt handouts. I think the general desire is for rates to remain up and a normal market remain but while I'm in line with others that longer term we will settle below here I'm not sure I see any reason at all for rates to come down any time soon other than maybe a cosmetic lifting of 25bp to signal a message of stability?
I think that would imply longer term fixes being better value than short term in the future?
I'm out of the sub-2% bubble in Aug when my 5 year fixed expires, so shopping now.
Current 5 year fixes are around 4% ish.
Personally I prefer to pay the arrangement fee up front as over the term it's cheaper, but...
My incumbent has offered two 60% LTV deal - one with an arrangement fee and the other a 'fee saver' deal.
In order to hold the better rate I need to pay the fee - if I cancel between now and Aug I won't get that fee back.
Yet if I accept the fee-free deal at a slightly high rate, I can do the paperwork so it's in place, yet can cancel it any time between now and Aug (if something better comes along) and it costs me nothing.
Over 5 years the additional cost of the fee saver is about £140, so seems a low cost gamble of booking something whilst continuing to run the gauntlet for the next few months whilst things settle.
On one hand it seems prudent, on the other it seems a bit cheeky / morally bankrupt thing to do.
Paperwork incoming for full review, but maybe I've not understood their agent on the phone properly?
Current 5 year fixes are around 4% ish.
Personally I prefer to pay the arrangement fee up front as over the term it's cheaper, but...
My incumbent has offered two 60% LTV deal - one with an arrangement fee and the other a 'fee saver' deal.
In order to hold the better rate I need to pay the fee - if I cancel between now and Aug I won't get that fee back.
Yet if I accept the fee-free deal at a slightly high rate, I can do the paperwork so it's in place, yet can cancel it any time between now and Aug (if something better comes along) and it costs me nothing.
Over 5 years the additional cost of the fee saver is about £140, so seems a low cost gamble of booking something whilst continuing to run the gauntlet for the next few months whilst things settle.
On one hand it seems prudent, on the other it seems a bit cheeky / morally bankrupt thing to do.
Paperwork incoming for full review, but maybe I've not understood their agent on the phone properly?
The spinner of plates said:
I'm out of the sub-2% bubble in Aug when my 5 year fixed expires, so shopping now.
Current 5 year fixes are around 4% ish.
Personally I prefer to pay the arrangement fee up front as over the term it's cheaper, but...
My incumbent has offered two 60% LTV deal - one with an arrangement fee and the other a 'fee saver' deal.
In order to hold the better rate I need to pay the fee - if I cancel between now and Aug I won't get that fee back.
Yet if I accept the fee-free deal at a slightly high rate, I can do the paperwork so it's in place, yet can cancel it any time between now and Aug (if something better comes along) and it costs me nothing.
Over 5 years the additional cost of the fee saver is about £140, so seems a low cost gamble of booking something whilst continuing to run the gauntlet for the next few months whilst things settle.
On one hand it seems prudent, on the other it seems a bit cheeky / morally bankrupt thing to do.
Paperwork incoming for full review, but maybe I've not understood their agent on the phone properly?
There's no reason for them to not refund your fee if it does not complete.Current 5 year fixes are around 4% ish.
Personally I prefer to pay the arrangement fee up front as over the term it's cheaper, but...
My incumbent has offered two 60% LTV deal - one with an arrangement fee and the other a 'fee saver' deal.
In order to hold the better rate I need to pay the fee - if I cancel between now and Aug I won't get that fee back.
Yet if I accept the fee-free deal at a slightly high rate, I can do the paperwork so it's in place, yet can cancel it any time between now and Aug (if something better comes along) and it costs me nothing.
Over 5 years the additional cost of the fee saver is about £140, so seems a low cost gamble of booking something whilst continuing to run the gauntlet for the next few months whilst things settle.
On one hand it seems prudent, on the other it seems a bit cheeky / morally bankrupt thing to do.
Paperwork incoming for full review, but maybe I've not understood their agent on the phone properly?
Or you add the fee to the loan to get the lower rate and then pay it off the mortgage on day 1, same net effect as if you'd paid it upfront.......
Sarnie said:
The spinner of plates said:
I'm out of the sub-2% bubble in Aug when my 5 year fixed expires, so shopping now.
Current 5 year fixes are around 4% ish.
Personally I prefer to pay the arrangement fee up front as over the term it's cheaper, but...
My incumbent has offered two 60% LTV deal - one with an arrangement fee and the other a 'fee saver' deal.
In order to hold the better rate I need to pay the fee - if I cancel between now and Aug I won't get that fee back.
Yet if I accept the fee-free deal at a slightly high rate, I can do the paperwork so it's in place, yet can cancel it any time between now and Aug (if something better comes along) and it costs me nothing.
Over 5 years the additional cost of the fee saver is about £140, so seems a low cost gamble of booking something whilst continuing to run the gauntlet for the next few months whilst things settle.
On one hand it seems prudent, on the other it seems a bit cheeky / morally bankrupt thing to do.
Paperwork incoming for full review, but maybe I've not understood their agent on the phone properly?
There's no reason for them to not refund your fee if it does not complete.Current 5 year fixes are around 4% ish.
Personally I prefer to pay the arrangement fee up front as over the term it's cheaper, but...
My incumbent has offered two 60% LTV deal - one with an arrangement fee and the other a 'fee saver' deal.
In order to hold the better rate I need to pay the fee - if I cancel between now and Aug I won't get that fee back.
Yet if I accept the fee-free deal at a slightly high rate, I can do the paperwork so it's in place, yet can cancel it any time between now and Aug (if something better comes along) and it costs me nothing.
Over 5 years the additional cost of the fee saver is about £140, so seems a low cost gamble of booking something whilst continuing to run the gauntlet for the next few months whilst things settle.
On one hand it seems prudent, on the other it seems a bit cheeky / morally bankrupt thing to do.
Paperwork incoming for full review, but maybe I've not understood their agent on the phone properly?
Or you add the fee to the loan to get the lower rate and then pay it off the mortgage on day 1, same net effect as if you'd paid it upfront.......
She said on the phone in order to 'book the rate' on the fee saver I need to pay the £495 within 5 days of receiving the paperwork.
If I don't, the rate for Aug is not booked. If I don't proceed in Aug and find a new deal, I'll not get my arrangement fee back and forfeit it.
First Direct.
The spinner of plates said:
Got it, thanks.
She said on the phone in order to 'book the rate' on the fee saver I need to pay the £495 within 5 days of receiving the paperwork.
If I don't, the rate for Aug is not booked. If I don't proceed in Aug and find a new deal, I'll not get my arrangement fee back and forfeit it.
First Direct.
I had that issue with FD when i moved last year. Missed out on a 5 year fix at 1.09% as the timings just wouldn't work out and i didn't want to gamble the 500 quid arrangement fee.She said on the phone in order to 'book the rate' on the fee saver I need to pay the £495 within 5 days of receiving the paperwork.
If I don't, the rate for Aug is not booked. If I don't proceed in Aug and find a new deal, I'll not get my arrangement fee back and forfeit it.
First Direct.
I ended up on a 5 year fix at 1.64%. I was raging at the time, but now considering the way the interest rates have went, i count myself lucky.
DonkeyApple said:
CoolHands said:
Anyway so after this increase what’s the outlook for following few months? Will edge back down?
Base rates? The 25bp is a calming number designed to show they want to stop raising but we have all the pay rises from the strike settlements to come in and private sector employment still looks bullish and inflationary also as do all the continued govt handouts. I think the general desire is for rates to remain up and a normal market remain but while I'm in line with others that longer term we will settle below here I'm not sure I see any reason at all for rates to come down any time soon other than maybe a cosmetic lifting of 25bp to signal a message of stability?
I think that would imply longer term fixes being better value than short term in the future?
tting themselves they properly break something now and are starting to realise that the interest rate rises are doing next to heehaw to inflation.I wouldn't be surprised if the Fed hold at the next review and the BoE meat puppets follow as usual. Anything beyond that is a total guess from anyone as it seems every few months there's a new surprise fistful of s
t thrown at the fan from an unknown direction. My useless guess is that rates will be lowered sooner than previously thought.Terzo123 said:
The spinner of plates said:
Got it, thanks.
She said on the phone in order to 'book the rate' on the fee saver I need to pay the £495 within 5 days of receiving the paperwork.
If I don't, the rate for Aug is not booked. If I don't proceed in Aug and find a new deal, I'll not get my arrangement fee back and forfeit it.
First Direct.
I had that issue with FD when i moved last year. Missed out on a 5 year fix at 1.09% as the timings just wouldn't work out and i didn't want to gamble the 500 quid arrangement fee.She said on the phone in order to 'book the rate' on the fee saver I need to pay the £495 within 5 days of receiving the paperwork.
If I don't, the rate for Aug is not booked. If I don't proceed in Aug and find a new deal, I'll not get my arrangement fee back and forfeit it.
First Direct.
I ended up on a 5 year fix at 1.64%. I was raging at the time, but now considering the way the interest rates have went, i count myself lucky.
Fine, I'll sign up to the fee saver one and not proceed at zero cost to me if I find something better in the coming months.
Our fixed rate ends in August so we have ‘booked’ a new deal at 4.24% for 3 years today, with a view to swapping onto anything better that comes along before August.
Got to say although it’s not nice stumping up an extra £250 p/m (based on the new 4.24% rate), it’s nowhere near what I thought we’d facing a few months ago when it looked like rates would be 5-6%. Hopefully things go down again in the next few months.
What are people’s thoughts on fixing for 3 vs 5 years at these rates (4.24% & 4.04% respectively) at the moment? My instinct is that we are in for a bumpy few months/year or so still, but in 3years time things may have stabilised to the point of there being more choice at lower rates.
Got to say although it’s not nice stumping up an extra £250 p/m (based on the new 4.24% rate), it’s nowhere near what I thought we’d facing a few months ago when it looked like rates would be 5-6%. Hopefully things go down again in the next few months.
What are people’s thoughts on fixing for 3 vs 5 years at these rates (4.24% & 4.04% respectively) at the moment? My instinct is that we are in for a bumpy few months/year or so still, but in 3years time things may have stabilised to the point of there being more choice at lower rates.
Edited by T1547 on Friday 24th March 21:24
Just sorting out remortgage now and we have been mulling over the short fix/long fix/tracker dilemma.
I have devoured as much information as I can over the short to medium term predictions and there are few if any voices suggesting anything other than a short term rise followed by rates easing in the medium term. What that means though is anybodies guess!
We opted for a 5 year fix based on, we can afford it, it isn't as bad as we were expecting and it takes our boys through to 6th form in this house for sure as can be.
If I were betting with somebody (say a couple of hundred quid) i'd bet that over 5 years it will end up we'd have been better off with a tracker to switch in a couple of years but as we are literally betting 'the house' I ain't taking that bet.
I have devoured as much information as I can over the short to medium term predictions and there are few if any voices suggesting anything other than a short term rise followed by rates easing in the medium term. What that means though is anybodies guess!
We opted for a 5 year fix based on, we can afford it, it isn't as bad as we were expecting and it takes our boys through to 6th form in this house for sure as can be.
If I were betting with somebody (say a couple of hundred quid) i'd bet that over 5 years it will end up we'd have been better off with a tracker to switch in a couple of years but as we are literally betting 'the house' I ain't taking that bet.
Yup, personal view is things will ease over the next 12mths, but we’re not going back to sub 2% levels any time soon.
I think things will ‘settle’ in the 3-4% range over the next 5 years.
So a 5 year fixed at 4% will do, can’t see myself getting too bent out of shape at that rate… but willing to listen to other opinions between now and aug!!!
I think things will ‘settle’ in the 3-4% range over the next 5 years.
So a 5 year fixed at 4% will do, can’t see myself getting too bent out of shape at that rate… but willing to listen to other opinions between now and aug!!!
The spinner of plates said:
Yup, personal view is things will ease over the next 12mths, but we’re not going back to sub 2% levels any time soon.
I think things will ‘settle’ in the 3-4% range over the next 5 years.
So a 5 year fixed at 4% will do, can’t see myself getting too bent out of shape at that rate… but willing to listen to other opinions between now and aug!!!
Just gone with 3.99 for 5 years, looked around and went with first direct as their erc is 2% in years 2,3,4,5 so it isn’t horrendous to get out if things do drop but have the security off the fix so it seemed a happy medium. I think things will ‘settle’ in the 3-4% range over the next 5 years.
So a 5 year fixed at 4% will do, can’t see myself getting too bent out of shape at that rate… but willing to listen to other opinions between now and aug!!!
The spinner of plates said:
Yup, personal view is things will ease over the next 12mths, but we’re not going back to sub 2% levels any time soon.
I think things will ‘settle’ in the 3-4% range over the next 5 years.
So a 5 year fixed at 4% will do, can’t see myself getting too bent out of shape at that rate… but willing to listen to other opinions between now and aug!!!
That seems to be the general view of the markets. I think things will ‘settle’ in the 3-4% range over the next 5 years.
So a 5 year fixed at 4% will do, can’t see myself getting too bent out of shape at that rate… but willing to listen to other opinions between now and aug!!!
It's one of those times that people need to weight up the two outcomes of this general view being incorrect. On the one hand there is the annoyance of finding out one could have taken a shorter fix and been paying a little less interest while on the other hand, if rates were to run higher and return to some kind of traditional norm then they'd be screwed. The point being the scales of upside v downside are not well balanced at present.
What's interesting is the mind chasm 2008 has caused. On the post 2008 side are people who have only ever known the zero interest society and on the other those who see it as a momentary anomaly. What has surprised me was meeting people in the latter group who haven't used the last 14 years to pay down risky levels of debt
I think the value of most macro predictions can be generously described as "dubious" anyway, but trying to second guess monetary policy 12mths+ out right now is practically pointless. Price action in markets tells you that even the "smart money" doesn't have much of a clue, and central bankers' words and actions suggest little better of themselves. Never mind months, look at how events of the last 12 days have thrown things up in the air and may continue to do so.
Obviously that doesn't lend itself to a nice easy "the obvious thing to do is fix for X years" answer, but there you go.
Obviously that doesn't lend itself to a nice easy "the obvious thing to do is fix for X years" answer, but there you go.
Agreed. I think I posted something a while back on this thread how we are in a flux period where each borrower must honestly assess their own situation, outlook, wishes and risk appetite/aversion more than during benign periods such as the last 14 years.
Market may have a consensus opinion that rates will settle in the 3-4 range in the West but what's more important is what happens if either they don't or there is the normal overshoot (no central bank has ever raised just the right amount, there's always some form of overshoot whether time or value). It's the risk of maybe saving a bit v costing a lot more.
Market may have a consensus opinion that rates will settle in the 3-4 range in the West but what's more important is what happens if either they don't or there is the normal overshoot (no central bank has ever raised just the right amount, there's always some form of overshoot whether time or value). It's the risk of maybe saving a bit v costing a lot more.
DonkeyApple said:
Agreed. I think I posted something a while back on this thread how we are in a flux period where each borrower must honestly assess their own situation, outlook, wishes and risk appetite/aversion more than during benign periods such as the last 14 years.
Market may have a consensus opinion that rates will settle in the 3-4 range in the West but what's more important is what happens if either they don't or there is the normal overshoot (no central bank has ever raised just the right amount, there's always some form of overshoot whether time or value). It's the risk of maybe saving a bit v costing a lot more.
I think this is very true…I also feel that any positive stimulus or rate rise to cool things overshoots due to the lag in reporting house completions or tax returns etc….I am guessing that we will see a massive nose dive at some point and then stimulus to get things back on track….the boom bust cycle continues but on a much faster turnaround these days.Market may have a consensus opinion that rates will settle in the 3-4 range in the West but what's more important is what happens if either they don't or there is the normal overshoot (no central bank has ever raised just the right amount, there's always some form of overshoot whether time or value). It's the risk of maybe saving a bit v costing a lot more.
Caddyshack said:
I think this is very true…I also feel that any positive stimulus or rate rise to cool things overshoots due to the lag in reporting house completions or tax returns etc….I am guessing that we will see a massive nose dive at some point and then stimulus to get things back on track….the boom bust cycle continues but on a much faster turnaround these days.
2023 housing data is going to be weird. There will be stuff people have paid more for and stuff that's had to be hugely discounted and all in a data flow that's thinner than normal. I suspect that one aspect that will have a huge drag beyond 2023 is the growing realisation that the enormous costs of renovating, updating or extending a property requires far larger discounting than sellers wish and buyers have currently realised. I'm not even sure lenders have yet realised the true disparity at present?
I don't yet see any risk of a general rout in values (but then you never do) but I do see an o going growth and expansion in the market becoming more discerning with parts of it clearly already broken. One example being the previous habit of over paying for a wreck and then just slapping a couple of hundred K extra on a mortgage to get its true value up to the over value that was paid.
There are bits within the market that just have to break and reform under the newer, much higher costs.
One can also smell the return of the DIY extension TV programs buying discussed in the corridors of Amazon and Netflix as they decide which pair of rubber jugs, regional camp accent wearing grandma's false teeth and grandpa's old trousers will be excitedly introducing the segment about building a wall using Bitcoin and humous.
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