Burglar alarms - useful, or a complete ****ing nuisance?

Burglar alarms - useful, or a complete ****ing nuisance?

Author
Discussion

Craikeybaby

10,367 posts

224 months

Thursday 4th July 2013
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That sounds a much better bet than just the PIRs we have.

motco

15,908 posts

245 months

Thursday 4th July 2013
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PIRS are quick to fit compared with contacts on all doors and windows. There was a panel available until a couple of years ago (firm died) with a two coloured proximity key. One half was red (for bed) and the other grey (for away) and you offered the appropriate side to the panel for the level of set you wanted. 'Away' would be a full system and a 'home' just the downstairs. Even longer ago there was a panel from Canada that automatically set either perimeter only (doors and windows), or the full system including space detection. If you set the system and left the house it would set completely, but if you didn't use the final exit door it set only the perimeter. To my mind that's excellent, but installing a system with a full perimeter and volumetric detectors would cost too much in the current climate.

Westy Pre-Lit

5,087 posts

202 months

Thursday 4th July 2013
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littlebasher said:
Westy Pre-Lit said:
Alarm goes off for 28 minutes every day for 10 years and you said nothing or tried to do anything about it......really ?
Tried, got nowhere with homeowner or council
To be fair, it sounds like the alarm(s)had developed a fault probably through neglect and an ignorant owner refusing to get it sorted.

The problem we do find is that a lot of people will treat and think of them as a 'White Good' rather than a serviceable item that requires yearly preventative maintenance checks for good and hopefully trouble free operation.

Councils have noise abatement teams that can and will disconnect systems causing a noise nuisance. This will then be followed up by a nasty fine and call-out charges. I've been called out on quite a few occasions to meet up at a property and carry out a disconnect so it does happen, one was on Christmas day many years ago, for which I got paid handsomely for thank you very much. biggrin

I know of one council that can fine up to £5000 and have been told they have done so on quite a few occasions. Trouble is in most cases they will probably need to witness the nuisance before being able to take any action. If enough people complain though and a nuisance is unable to be witnessed at a given time, I don't see why a strongly worded letter informing a property owner of their responsibilities and any action that could be taken against them, would not have been used to help the situation. If I had been in your position I think I may have pestered them until they done they job for which they get paid.

JDFR

1,219 posts

134 months

Thursday 4th July 2013
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motco said:
To my mind that's excellent, but installing a system with a full perimeter and volumetric detectors would cost too much in the current climate.
It was only affordable for us because we stripped the house right back and ran the wires ourselves. Alarm system was still £2k as we had 24 zones.

Meeja

8,289 posts

247 months

Thursday 4th July 2013
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JDFR said:
motco said:
To my mind that's excellent, but installing a system with a full perimeter and volumetric detectors would cost too much in the current climate.
It was only affordable for us because we stripped the house right back and ran the wires ourselves. Alarm system was still £2k as we had 24 zones.
24 zones in a house?!

Bloody hell!

These discussions always fascinate me.

I would always advocate having a well installed and reliable system, and more importantly, use it.

My road is a 50/50 mix of alarmed houses and ones with nothing (visible)... A few of them go off relatively regularly, and I usually have a Nosey, just to be sure nothing untoward is going on. (it never is) no one else locally tends to bat an eyelid.

On the other hand, the system I have at home is extensive and comprehensive (I used to install for ADT for a living!) and has only ever gone off once in the last 12 years. We were out walking when it happened, and I got "the text/call" when we were on our way back home, and were about 1/2 mile away.

Once I got the call, I legged it as quick as I could to get home.... By the time I got there (literally a couple of minutes later) there were at least four neighbours having a look around the garden and through the windows.

When asked (after being thanked) why they were so alert to the alarm, the general responses were that "Your alarm never goes off. So we assumed it must be for real!"

Turned out to be a cable fault in the garage where (presumably) a four legged friend with a tail had chewed through a cable causing a tamper fault. (replaced with a cable in plastic conduit!)

So in my view, they definitely have their place on domestic properties.

But make sure that they are serviced! You can always tell who hasn't bothered having theirs serviced when there is a power cut.... A decent services system will not start going off when the power goes down (although a decent system should text or call you to tell you about the power cut!)

A decent system does not need to come from the "big boys" like ADT or CHUBB either.

Local NACOSS approved installers will give as good (if not better) service than the national companies.... And if you are logically minded, DIY competent and capable of reading (and following) technical instructions and requirements (such as sensor locations) then a reliable system can be a DIY install.

The trick is making all of the cabling disappear.... That is an art that takes a little practice (or a refurb house that needs plastering!)

Chicken Chaser

7,736 posts

223 months

Thursday 4th July 2013
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We've just had a Yale wireless kit installed, and i've got to say that its a good piece of kit. I had an installer fit it for me (I asked for a PIR alarm but didnt know what I was getting as it was a friend of the family), but in all honesty if you're pretty good at setting a VCR to record, then you could sort it. The manual explains everything, nothing is wired (only the power supply which is a plug in supply to the box), and the PIRs are all on AAA battery. Any tampering with either part of the system sets it off. Fobs are also included for remote arming and disarming. You can even hook it up to the telephone line so that it rings out when there is an activation.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002D38J8C

Meeja

8,289 posts

247 months

Friday 5th July 2013
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Chicken Chaser said:
We've just had a Yale wireless kit installed, and i've got to say that its a good piece of kit. I had an installer fit it for me (I asked for a PIR alarm but didnt know what I was getting as it was a friend of the family), but in all honesty if you're pretty good at setting a VCR to record, then you could sort it. The manual explains everything, nothing is wired (only the power supply which is a plug in supply to the box), and the PIRs are all on AAA battery. Any tampering with either part of the system sets it off. Fobs are also included for remote arming and disarming. You can even hook it up to the telephone line so that it rings out when there is an activation.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002D38J8C
Personally, I wouldn't touch Yale kit with a barge pole.

I have removed a few over the years.

But that is just my opinion.

sider

2,058 posts

220 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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Westy Pre-Lit said:
Did you declare it to your insurance company ?

What does your policy say you need to do if you have declared it ?
When we moved into our house, day we were moving in, one of our friends moving a bed hit the panic button on our alarm that the previous owners had failed to tell us how to turn off. We tried everything and in the end my brother in law electrician cut the cable to it.

We called the supplier who apparently had a contract to maintain it and said previous owners had invalidated the contract by not getting it serviced previous year (as they'd moved into sheltered accomodation).

So, we decided to take the unsighltly 1980s box off the wall, with cable still in place for future re-install.

7 years later and still never bothered - the dog seems to do the trick at making us aware and due to lifestyle, there's someone there generally during the day and we only get a couple of weeks away per year. I have considered getting one fitted though - peace of mind like you say.

What surprised me though was that i rang up to move my home insurance from my current provider to the new and they asked if we had an alarm. Which we did, (this was a few hours before we basically made it useless!). When i renewed the following year, the renewal price was £X, and i called to say that the alarm had been removed - so as to not make my policy null and void. No change - whatsoever. I was expecting at least £10 addition - just because they could. But nothing. Tried it online a couple of times too - no change to policy price when you untick that box.



bertieg

603 posts

140 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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i neighbours was going off at 8 hour intervals for 4 days since thursday last week. we had a look around and saw no one home, but car on the drive and windows open. when we called the police 2 PCSOs turned up and said it doesnt look like a burglary, so we'll leave it!

havent heard the alarm since yesterday morning, but either the neighbours are home and turned it off, or they're dead inside and the alarm has broken. either way, very unimpressive response by any alarm company or the police

beko1987

1,633 posts

133 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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The pharmacy next door to us's alarm goes off randomly every now and again for hours.

First time it happened was at 4pm. I popped outside, put my head to the window and saw all was well. An hour later it was still ringing, no one had come to check. Found a grainy phone number on the bell box, rang it, number dead. Hour 2, I called 101, and they told me to ring company X (who was registered as the alarm place for the building). It's half 7 on a saturday night, alarm company couldnt be arsed. I'm about to get the hammer out and silence the bell box when it stopped, 4 hours later.

Had 2 hours on sunday as well, we went out!

Monday morning, pharmacy opens up, missus pops round at opening time, the system has no record of an alarm, no trips, nothing. I went round after work and got the mobile number of the nearest keyholder, incase it happened again.

Happened 9 times over the course of the next month. I took great delight in calling this person all hours of the day and night when it happened, and watching them get out of the car in pyjamas to silence it.

It got replaced soon after that.

So, even commercial alarms are crap sometimes. My parents have an old one which is very broken, no longer really connected but the panic button still sounds the sirn, so mum kept it.

motco

15,908 posts

245 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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It is a legal requirement for the warning device (bell, siren etc.) to stop after a maximum of twenty minutes. If it goes on for longer call the environmental health department at the local council.

dav123a

1,220 posts

158 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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IIRC it's 15 mins , not exactly sure when it changed haven't done intruder for while maybe 7 years. I wouldn't say illegal more non-compliance with BS.

Not Ideal

2,898 posts

187 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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Yup - 15mins is the limit now.

Westy Pre-Lit

5,087 posts

202 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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bertieg said:
either way, very unimpressive response by any alarm company or the police
The police will generally only respond to an alarm of a 'Policed' security system. They should respond though if the alarm is going off and persons are reported in the property that look suspicious or there are signs of a break in. If you have a problem with a nuisance alarm and the property owner has no interest in sorting out the problem, then the Local Authority can be informed via the noise abatement department.

It is the owner of the property who is responsible for the alarm system. Once installed and handed over, the security companies only responsibility is to inform the owner when a maintenance visit is due and carry that out if and when required. It is the responsibility of the owner of the property to have the alarm regularly maintained for good operation and so that it doesn't cause a nuisance with repeated false activations. A security company cannot make somebody maintain their alarm system, only inform them of their ownership responsibilities.

Unless directed by the Local Authority/Police/Property Owner, no security company has the authority to disconnect an alarm system. If the property owner has a service contract with a company, they should have keyholder details on record and if approached should hopefully try to inform their customer of the activation if the system has no form of communication. It is then the responsibility of the owner of the property to deal with the activation as they see fit.

HTH smile

Edited by Westy Pre-Lit on Tuesday 23 July 20:25

motco

15,908 posts

245 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
quotequote all
dav123a said:
IIRC it's 15 mins , not exactly sure when it changed haven't done intruder for while maybe 7 years. I wouldn't say illegal more non-compliance with BS.
You're right of course it was changed in pretty short order in the late nineties IIRC, but this one has no bell stop timer at all - in the panel or warning device, so twenty would be a step in the right direction. Who's standing there with a stopwatch anyway?

northandy

3,495 posts

220 months

Tuesday 23rd July 2013
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Neighbours alarm went off on a friday evening, within 20 mins the police had pitched up, they had had a call rather than it be a monitored alarm.

Id already checked front and back, but had seem the young lad that lives there dash in and out just prior to it going off.

As long as they dont go off all the time people do seem to notice.